What to do when teachers dont know what the heck there talking about.

[becky8898]

HI Everyone.  My Middle school is having there annual talent show ( actually should be called the un talent show). Somehow I got talked into being the piano accompanist for the show.  Thats mostly because all the teachers in my school who play piano just blow.

Anyway , I dont mind it really even if I have to transpose songs all over the place because no one can stay on Key when they sing. I have one girl who Started her song in Eb and finished in G. Really amazing to hear someone trying to sing an octave leap and do a ninth instead. However the real issue is as bad as some of the kids in the show are, they are getting really crappy advice from the teachers who are running it.  I sit there at the piano and just cant believe what im hearing.. Talk about a bunch of people with there heads off in the ozone. 

So here is what I got to thinking about.  In general what do you do when a music teacher is just giving Horrible advice or instruction.  In my case, I dont want to make an enemy of these teachers.  True I would like to walk up to them and say " you dont know what the ?? your talking about. But I dont want to be sent to the principals office.  I dont want to humiliate them in public.  I could speak the principal myself , but something tells me that can only work out bad for moi.  I could say something to the kids, or there parents, but again , all i see is a lot of blow back on me.  Or I can do nothing.  Just do the best I can as an accompanist and let what happens happen. 

Oh and one last thing. There is no doubt in this instance I know what im talking about.  I may not be the brightest person on a lot of things, but when it comes to music, I have my stuff together.

Ok so the general question is - what to do with a music teacher who is just giving out really bad advice or instruction.  Ever encounter that yourself and how did you handle that. 

Oh ill be performing in the show myself doing the Chopin Scherzo, op31 #2.( Final performer. )

Heres hoping you never meet another bad music instructor.

Cheers, Becky

[bustthewave]

HI Everyone.  My Middle school is having there annual talent show ( actually should be called the un talent show). Somehow I got talked into being the piano accompanist for the show.  Thats mostly because all the teachers in my school who play piano just blow.

Anyway , I dont mind it really even if I have to transpose songs all over the place because no one can stay on Key when they sing. I have one girl who Started her song in Eb and finished in G. Really amazing to hear someone trying to sing an octave leap and do a ninth instead. However the real issue is as bad as some of the kids in the show are, they are getting really crappy advice from the teachers who are running it.  I sit there at the piano and just cant believe what im hearing.. Talk about a bunch of people with there heads off in the ozone. 

So here is what I got to thinking about.  In general what do you do when a music teacher is just giving Horrible advice or instruction.  In my case, I dont want to make an enemy of these teachers.  True I would like to walk up to them and say " you dont know what the ?? your talking about. But I dont want to be sent to the principals office.  I dont want to humiliate them in public.  I could speak the principal myself , but something tells me that can only work out bad for moi.  I could say something to the kids, or there parents, but again , all i see is a lot of blow back on me.  Or I can do nothing.  Just do the best I can as an accompanist and let what happens happen. 

Oh and one last thing. There is no doubt in this instance I know what im talking about.  I may not be the brightest person on a lot of things, but when it comes to music, I have my stuff together.

Ok so the general question is - what to do with a music teacher who is just giving out really bad advice or instruction.  Ever encounter that yourself and how did you handle that. 

Oh ill be performing in the show myself doing the Chopin Scherzo, op31 #2.( Final performer. )

Heres hoping you never meet another bad music instructor.

Cheers, Becky

I just experienced something really similar to this. By similar, I mean where I was more knowledgeable than someone else, but wasn't in a position to say anything. I'm going into nursing, and am in pre-nursing right now, so I'm in a nursing assistant class. We are doing clinicals at this VERY fancy, upscale nursing home. I have to shadow these CNAs.

I know and have had experience giving care to elderly. I have watched these CNAs treat these elderly horribly, to the point that I would rather die young than to get old, and live like that. I mean, these are people who have doctorates and careers, and are now elderly. I watched as CNAs told loud dementia patients to "shut up," who told depressed elderly who didn't want to get out of bed that they were "lazy." I watched as CNAs moved elderly in very dangerous ways, as they gave improper care that could VERY easily (and in some cases did) lead to infections, or UTIs. I watched as elderly were forced to sit in their urine because it "wasn't time to change them."

As much as I wanted to say something, I was a guest in someone else's working environment. I could not change the system, or the CNAs. But what I could do, is give these elderly the absolute best care that I could, and let me tell you how rewarding it was. What I will do now that clinicals has just ended, is I will write reviews, and write a long letter to the state. And I will volunteer to play piano at this nursing home.

My point is that as much as you know about music (and you do, no question you are better than anyone playing or instructing by light years and I have a feeling you will come up against this all the time, for the rest of your life), you are really a guest player. Most of these kids don't want a professional career, and most of these families who will listen just want to see their kid on stage. I think it's more important that they have that experience than to be held to the standards of art, beauty, and showmanship (along with musicality, technical ability, and passion) that you hold for yourself. Never lower your standards, but understand that you wont be able to change their standards.

And there is no way to do anything about it without getting blow back on yourself I hate to say it.

Just consider it an act of charity .

All the best!
David

EDIT: Edited words that weren't words :/

[monkeydudexd]

hmm maybe you should try asking the students if they could work with you individually? (of course, this is assuming you are willing to spend the time and that these are kids who actually don't mind getting better). I mean, I would jump at the opportunity of a free lesson, but if the kids are as ignorant as these teachers you're describing, hope may be lost.

try offering (and by offering I mean passively forcing) them to do a rehearsal with you and there you can go over specific notes and pitches with them. and if you're in private, you can also tell them to disregard what the teachers tell them, but more in a hinting matter (you can say, "do a crescendo here no matter what, even if anyone tells you otherwise")

[bustthewave]

hmm maybe you should try asking the students if they could work with you individually? (of course, this is assuming you are willing to spend the time and that these are kids who actually don't mind getting better). I mean, I would jump at the opportunity of a free lesson, but if the kids are as ignorant as these teachers you're describing, hope may be lost.

try offering (and by offering I mean passively forcing) them to do a rehearsal with you and there you can go over specific notes and pitches with them. and if you're in private, you can also tell them to disregard what the teachers tell them, but more in a hinting matter (you can say, "do a crescendo here no matter what, even if anyone tells you otherwise")

I dunno, ultimately Becky will have to figure it out, but I would imagine this is a lost cause. If this were the disney concert hall in LA, this would be different, but it's a middle school performance. I still think any attempt to change this will simply come off as "arrogant," and the gains will at best be one performance, while changing nothing in the long run except perhaps her reputation.

I think you could do wonders with any orchestra, the question is though - is it worth it? And can you actually change it? You spelled out your options earlier, and they seem pretty crappy . I'd just stick this one out and then be more selective in the future .

[ongaku_oniko]

Becky here's a saying:

sometimes it's wise to just not talk. I understand you know something, and when others pretend they know something when they really don't, it's really frustrating.

But like you said, it won't do you any good. If your friends asks you for advice, you can tell them the right way. But don't get in their face and say the teacher is wrong and you are right. And definitely don't say it to the teacher.

If you really can't hold it in, you can say "Miss so and so, I know you said to do this part this way, but I was taught by my piano teacher that it should be done this other way. Can you tell me why you suggest this particular way?"


EDIT:

OMG BECKY YOU'RE DOING SCHERZO NO2?!!!!!!! DO REMEMBER TO POST A MP3 HERE AFTER YOU'RE FINISHED I LOVE SCHERZO NO.2!!!

[Bob]

I wouldn't change the key of the pitch if the vocalist can't match pitch.  I don't think that's helping them at all.

If you're the accompanist, don't say anything unless you're asked. 

Talent shows can be a royal pain the butt... if no one is really in charge of it.  It might be that the music teacher isn't really in charge but has something to do with coordinating it.  They might not be trying to teach anything.

And if you're teaching, you might have to say something that's general right for everyone but not really specific enough for everyone -- like, "Use lots of air!"  "Take a full, deep breath!"  It's not always the exact prescription for the situation but if a kid isn't practicing at all outside of the time... ugh...   And if they don't have the attention span to focus on what you're saying, it's not quite worth it after awhile.  So the teacher might spit out pat ideas. 

If I were you I wouldn't dare say the teacher doesn't know what they're talking about.  To anybody.  Although I'm kind of curious what they're saying.  It's out of your area as the accompanist unless you're asked though.  Even the performance level of the soloists.  If someone mentioned it, be polite about it -- Yes, you noticed they're off-pitch. 

I doubt the talent show is a top priority for the music teachers.  Probably one more thing.  And if they're just coordinating things... It's not really up to them to improve the performances.  That would be a lot of extra work to prep up on all the pieces the kids might be working on.   Or want to work on. 


If you don't like accompanying them, you don't have to do it.  It's good to be aware of the situation in schools though -- Probably so you can avoid it.  Haha.  Low pay, lots of work, mediocre performances.  You're probably more interested in higher level accompanying.  That would come with better pay too (or pay at all).  Part it is dealing with the people -- the performer, their teacher, anyone else involved.  If they suck, you don't want to insult or humiliate them.  If they're going to attempt a certain piece, you can always try to reduce it to the very basic elements -- pitch and rhythm.  Or give them some kind of idea on how to practice.  Run through a phrase and try to get them to match pitch on the first and last notes.  Make sure they're keeping a steady beat.  Get the rhythm down. 

If it's a talent show though... I would just stick to the accompanist role.  It's supposed to be a situation where people bring their talents to the performance, not a situation where they get some private instruction or guided practice and hand holding to get them to some kind of performance level. 

You might ask why the teacher told something to a student though.  I would be careful about not judging or appear to condemn what they're saying though.  It's probably just going to make you look like a jerk -- and it probably won't change anything with the teacher or with the student performer.

The teacher might also think they're doing a bit of favor by letting you accompany.  At least from my perspective the school can help out someone who's a beginning accompanist by giving them opportunities like that.  It sounds like you're more advanced though and if I were you, I would try to avoid this -- You could be working on your own stuff instead of wading through some hacky student performances.  But it gets you known too and might literally pay off after awhile too.  Then again... If you weren't doing the accompanying... These situations are a little strange sometimes... If it's a talent show and the performances are individual, why is the school providing the accompanist?  It should be up to the performer to find their own.  I've done it before just to be nice (and to make sure they didn't crash and burn, to make it possible for them to perform because they wouldn't find another accompanist, to have a little more control over the talent show, etc.).  But if you didn't accompany, then apparently the school would have someone else do it, probably an adult who would be paid.  Which makes me think you should be getting some money for accompanying.  If not, get the brief experience and get out before they try to make it a habit. 


I suppose another possibility is that you and the teacher are working from different angles on things.  You might be looking at what's written in the music, maybe a soft dynamic marking.  The teacher might be trying to get the student to sing out with a fuller voice and might tell the student to sing out loud and full.  In that case both people are right.  I'm wondering if that's it -- Looking at things in terms of teaching/developing vs. what the final performance should be.

Random note -- For the performance, the student could sing pretty poorly but enjoy it, the audience could enjoy it, the parents could enjoy it... It might be "successful" in that way.  And a student could also break down into tears or become very discouraged if they become aware... I guess "aware that they suck" or if they get that idea in their head. 

[perfect_pitch]

If it was me... I'd make a point to the piano teacher there... but since I'm not a singer, I wouldn't dare step on their toes.

I can condradict piano teachers in the past, if they give out wrong advice, and I have had to in the past... but as for the other instrumentalists or singers... I would leave them be.

On a related note... I have a new phrase now when I don't want to use swear words, inspired by you:   

"You don't know what the frowny face you're talking about"   - I love it. 

[pianisten1989]

You have to be really respectful when you tell them. And don't like shout it all over the building.

Try to get alone with them, and then give some compliments on the show (I once skipped that step with an old piano teacher, and hell broke lose, so make sure you give them a load of compliments), then say like "Though, maybe you could do like this".

If he go nuts, you can always say that you did nothing wrong.

[ongaku_oniko]

he go nuts, you can always say that you did nothing wrong.

agreed with everything you said up until this point. If she goes nuts (come on, the sterotypical teacher is a female, right? ), asserting that you've done nothing wrong will only make her angrier since to her it's implying that she did something wrong, and people don't like to be wrong.

Just try my method:

Ask a question. Say "I've always done it this way", or "I've been taught that it's like this" and follow up with "can you please explain to me why you told us to do it the other way?"

This way, since you're asking the teacher as opposed to telling them, they can't get angry at you. And you can tell if they wanted the advice in the first place. If they say something like "Just listen to me okay" that means they're not willing to listen to advice.

If they talk to you and try to explain why, maybe, just maybe their way works too. And if not, they'll probably understand themselves without you explicitly stating it.

[brogers70]

Becky, I think you have to pick your fights. I don't think this is one worth fighting. I'd just grin and bear it this time and politely say no next time they ask you to do it.

[birba]

And don't you dare modulate the songs to keep the singers in pitch!!!!  You might cringe as you are accompanying them, letting the audience know just who's off key.
And you might also let the teacher know they're off key if she - he's tone-deaf.
But other then that, frown and bear it.
You have my sympathy.

[ongaku_oniko]

also, something that's waaaaaaay more important than all of this:

We know you're amazingly gifted, becky. However, you need to realize that most people aren't gifted in music. Most people have trouble singing the relative pitches of a song, let alone being completely on key. Very few people have perfect pitch, and very few people can detect these errors.

Just because you're better than everyone else in music doesn't make you a better person. I'm not saying you think you're a better person; I'm just saying this, because being a person with less musical talent, I am slightly offended by your post.

So what if the singers sing off tune? It's only natural. Even my uncle, who is quite a good (professional, I might add) opera singer has trouble being on key sometimes, according to him. At one point he was offered a position to teach singing at Yale, but he declined. So if an experienced opera singer like that says saying on key is not easy, what makes you think it's so easy?

If the audience can't hear it, the singer can't hear it, then it's all good.

You're lucky you're not me. If only you went to one of my parents' new year's parties, and listened to the adults sing karaoke, you'd probably be puking buckets, to put it lightly.

To sum it up: Everyone is good at different things, if these people are not as good as you, be thankful ou're gifted, don't feel like "ew, why is s/he so bad at singing?"

[birba]

I'm sorry I added fuel to the fire!  It's just that I've worked with singers for 30 years and there are times when you really feel like shaking them and screaming "HEY!  Wake up!  This isn't just all about YOU and YOUR VOICE!  There's real music behind it all!"
I think you have to forgive Becky because she is so young and gifted and is ready to take on the world!  Of course there's a little bit of "I'm more talented then you" in it, but this is normal.  And I bet you anything, she doesn't actually show it when she's working with the kids.  I really think this is great experience for her - getting out of the ivory tower of the soloist and accompanying classmates.

[ongaku_oniko]

Oh no, no worries, it's nothing like that. I'm not hurt by it or anything, I'm perfectly content with not being able to identify the key. In fact, it's good for me, since crappy singers sound better to me, as I would only know if they sing off tune and miss a relative pitch, but I wouldn't be able to pick it up if they were off key... It's a blessing, really

I only said that because Becky is still a little girl, and although sme of her posts are amazingly profound even for adults, I thought that maybe a little adult (older child) like me can give a little bit of life advice.

Most of the people she'll interact with later on in life won't have great musical talent like she does, so it's great she's beginning to realize that she's special and not everyone can memorize a piece after looking at the score a few times. But those people are not worse than her.

I know it's a normal feeling, and I know she can feel it but not show it, but I think that a truly great person will not have this superiority feeling. And sometimes, it can lead to a person's downfall.

Take me for example. I used to be amazingly good at math. Do to certain complications, I went to about 2 months of grade 1, and 2 weeks of grade 2. My parents never teach me math since they're so busy, and I didn't have a tutor or anything. Yet when I entered grade 3, the teacher realized that I could do grade 7 level math.

Know the story of Pascal (or was it Gauss) figuring out the way to solve for 1+2+3..+100 when he was like 6? Well, I"m not quite as great, but I did figure it out by myself without any help when I was 8. I placed quite well on math contests provincally and country-wide without any tutoring or extra studying.

But this gave me a sense of pride, and I looked at other people and thought "why are you so stupid this problem is so simple ts so easy to solve". Of course I didn't say this, but I thought it. And Because of this pride, I never tried in school. I was always able to get top marks without studying or reading the books.

Now that I'm in University, this has become a big problem. I have a lot of problems wth trigometry and calculus, because I didn't listen in school and I didn't practise. So when the problems start to get really difficult lke now, I'm having a tough time.


Well, this won't happen to Becky since she loves the piano and practises a lot, but just realize that people are good at different things, and them singing offtune isn't really that bad.

[becky8898]

hey all: thanks for the great advice so far.  I think most of you are right. Ill just do my job as good as I can as accompanist. Maybe someday when Im famous(LOL) I can mouth off , till then  - oh well.

Cheers, Becky

[pianowolfi]

hey all: thanks for the great advice so far.  I think most of you are right. Ill just do my job as good as I can as accompanist. Maybe someday when Im famous(LOL) I can mouth off , till then  - oh well.

Cheers, Becky

This "maybe someday when..." might be fatal.
This is a challenge of your diplomacy. Don't surrender. Talk to the respective persons face to face, not in front of an audience. I am sure you'll find a way. I think you can also become a great teacher and this might be your first challenge

[fleetfingers]

It was the opposite for me when I began accompanying at my school. The singers would get frustrated with ME because I didn't know how to count, get the rhythms right, or sightread whatever they wanted me to.

I would appreciate when people were kind to me and offered suggestions in a genuinely helpful way. If they were impatient, rude, or acted like I was an awful piano player wasting their time it hurt my feelings, made me very self-concious, and all I wanted to do at that point was run away and crawl into a hole where no one could find me.

This may be the first talent show (or performance of any kind) for some of the performers and/or teachers. As musicians, we should be patient with each other in whatever stage of progression we're in. Have patience, help where you feel it will be welcomed, speak kindly. I think it's great that you are accompanying for your school - what a great way to share your talents and give to others who have not been so richly blessed in that area. They will gain a lot from working with you!

[Bob]

Lost my post but recovered a bit of it...


agree that they might really appreciate it.  They might be aware something is off on some level.

I would guess, if it's a singer and if they actually practiced, they sang with a recording.  They think they sound like that recording.  Having to produce pitches on their own is probably new to them and having a live piano accompanying them might be different than the instrumentation they're used to hearing on a recording.

[lostinidlewonder]

Music is not an exact science, advice that one teacher gives to another might seem totally irrelevant in your mind but for that student who may be leagues behind yourself it provides some guidance at least. I wonder what type of advice becky was disagreeing with was about? I would also not transpose mid song to suit a singer who goes off key it makes the presentation even more so peculiar, at least if the audience can listen to a good accompaniment it may in fact improve the performance.

If you have some ideas that you think would help then you should in fact offer to help the students and meet with the other teachers beforehand and mention to them that you would like to help take some of the teaching guidance burden off their shoulders an help out a bit or offer some guidance while you accompany them because it helps you with the performance as well. That way you are not really stepping on anyones toes.

Music is such a diverse subject and can be approached in so many different ways, we should not think that just because one way does not interest us it will not help others. I can't stand 99% of the internet piano courses online but there are people who benefit from it! So long you are learning some music, once you musically mature then you will take the required steps to improve.

Music maturity is a very important point as a music educator. I would not expect a student who is very untalented and does not practice much to play their pieces with mastery, I let them play with mistakes and now and then with incorrect technique because they are simply not disciplined or interested enough to push towards mastery. It is in fact inefficient to teach them to play with mastery and they will flounder about and not make as much progress. However with performing you would expect that the students are expected to practice hard, depends on the school, some schools just want to let students "have a go" at performing despite their effort to the performance, this is ok also.

[nataliethepianist]

Hello Becky. I see you have a problem on your hands, and I would like to help (although many others have). First, I know you are worried about this, but I must say a few sentences in your post made me laugh! Anyway, I would kindly tell each person what they should improve on, nicely of course. If they absolutely can't sing up to that par, well, then they will do what they do best and you'll do what you do best: Sounding like fools and sounding amazing!

To continue, if the teachers cannot simply do what they are supposed to be doing and wont give these students any guidance, then you should step in, talk to them privately, maybe while you are working with them, and tell them what their improvements should be! It would be the best thing to do without getting a few scowls from the teachers!

Good luck with that untalent show! (Or should I say good luck to the audience)

- Natalie

[perfect_pitch]

Natalie - in case you didn't know - all the recordings Becky posted were fake. They were not her performances, so I'd dismiss anything she says as CRAP!!!

[nataliethepianist]

I am not sure how to respond... I guess I should say I have not once listened to a recording, but since she is playing the Chopin piece and from some other posts I have responded to, I can tell she is learning difficult pieces!

[birba]

I guess you haven't been around for a while.  Becky, Ladypianist, and Roger1948 were the same person who had a multiple personality disorder and was sending recordings accumlutated through youtube.

[nataliethepianist]

Can I ask how you discovered this?

[stevebob]

Can I ask how you discovered this?

I don't remember the process that led from suspicion to accusation, but the hoax was confirmed by the forum's administrator here:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=40583.msg451817#msg451817

In my opinion, the threads that "Becky" started should be locked.

[birba]

I forget who it was, but someone discoverd on youtube a take of Scriabin's etude that Becky purportedly made and they coincided perfectly.

[pianisten1989]

I think you take this completely the wrong way. So what if she was fake? Many of the things she/he/it wrote were very good. How to practise Chopin etudes, many responses to the audition room that I found very useful, How to get more responses in the audition room... and that Bach italian concerto was probably the best I've ever heard. So what if she didn't play it herself?

*buhuhu, I got fooled by a stranger on the internet, and now I'm cranky!!!!*

If we found out Birba was a robot, sent from the future. Would you forget everything he said, only because he didn't say who he really was? (take that as a compliment, Birba! )

omg.. WELCOME TO INTERNET!

[stevebob]

Whether there were mitigating factors or not, we were victims of someone's pathological behavior.

If we had never found out about it, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  But we did find out!  Most people dislike deceit and dishonesty, and I cringe now when I read "Becky's" words (bad grammar and all) and know that it was somebody pretending to be a 12-year-old.

I only recall counseling "her" on one occasion.  I made a serious effort to offer earnest and thoughtful advice, and I feel exploited by the ruse.

[pianisten1989]

yeah, poor you... Must be really hard for you! 
Let me know if you wanna talk about it <3<3

[stevebob]

yeah, poor you... Must be really hard for you! 
Let me know if you wanna talk about it <3<3

Why the hostility and condescension?

Contrary to your suggestions, I doubt anyone is wringing his or her hands or boo-hoo-hooing over "Becky's" identity crisis (or, likewise, should be devastated by your attempts to minimize both the incident and people's legitimate reactions to it).

*buhuhu, I got fooled by a stranger on the internet, and now I'm cranky!!!!*

[...]

omg.. WELCOME TO INTERNET!

These remarks suggest a superior and even smug wisdom as regards human nature, the internet, and social interaction in this medium.  If 1989 is your birth year, such mature insightfulness seems a bit incongruous.  (Imagining you have it, on the other hand—and implying that others do not!—is entirely consistent with your youth.)

[pianisten1989]

"I only recall counseling "her" on one occasion.  I made a serious effort to offer earnest and thoughtful advice, and I feel exploited by the ruse."

That's why I wrote my last post. Seriously, you gave a someone an advice. And you get upset when she wasn't real? Ever though that someone else might have use for it?
 
Gah, no. I will not go into this again. Not with you. Bye

[stevebob]

"I only recall counseling "her" on one occasion.  I made a serious effort to offer earnest and thoughtful advice, and I feel exploited by the ruse."

That's why I wrote my last post. Seriously, you gave a someone an advice. And you get upset when she wasn't real? Ever though that someone else might have use for it?
 
Gah, no. I will not go into this again. Not with you. Bye

At the risk of restating the obvious, people are entitled to their feelings, opinions, and reactions.  When they are ridiculed or dismissed as apparently unworthy (as you've done), it tends to create an environment inhospitable to posting much of anything at all.  There's just no need to belittle people whose views are different from your own.

[littletune]

Well I sure don't want to argue with anyone or say how people should or shouldn't feel, but I just really don't understand why people are so hurt by this  I mean this person never said anything bad or mean! They just always said nice and helpful and encouraging things. Whoever was this person was not mean at all... isn't that more important than who they said they were?  So maybe that's how they felt... like they wanted to see what it was like to be someone else... you know like playing... why would that be so bad?  I mean kids play games and pretend to be someone else all the time! Is that bad then?  I just don't understand why people are so angry and hurt about it... it's not like someone wanted to do something bad... Oh well... maybe this is just a grownup thing... cause grownups usually forget about pretending and playing and why that is a cool thing to do  I don't know... I mean I was like  at first and I was sad cause I didn't want those people to just go away for ever... but I was never angry or anything like that  I just don't get that... Oh well... I guess people are just different

[allthumbspiano]

Well I sure don't want to argue with anyone or say how people should or shouldn't feel, but I just really don't understand why people are so hurt by this  I mean this person never said anything bad or mean! They just always said nice and helpful and encouraging things. Whoever was this person was not mean at all... isn't that more important than who they said they were?  So maybe that's how they felt... like they wanted to see what it was like to be someone else... you know like playing... why would that be so bad?  I mean kids play games and pretend to be someone else all the time! Is that bad then?  I just don't understand why people are so angry and hurt about it... it's not like someone wanted to do something bad... Oh well... maybe this is just a grownup thing... cause grownups usually forget about pretending and playing and why that is a cool thing to do  I don't know... I mean I was like  at first and I was sad cause I didn't want those people to just go away for ever... but I was never angry or anything like that  I just don't get that... Oh well... I guess people are just different

I can understand why people would be angry as good people took their time to help this person and felt for this person when what the person was saying was untrue.  Also you say this person didn't do anything mean but the person did do something mean by lying.  There is no good in that, if the person wants to play then they can go get some friends.

[stevebob]

A case was made that if an imposter is competent or helpful, then his or her realness isn't important.  I wonder how many people would want to be operated on by an uncredentialed surgeon or flown by an unlicensed pilot even if they seemed to be wonderfully skilled and knowledgeable.

[littletune]

Well yes lying is bad I know that! I guess I just don't think this was lying  I don't know I'm a little confused have to think about it. 

A case was made? you mean by me? Well I mean but they DID know a lot about music! They couldn't lie about that... I mean and Becky was 12! Wouldn't that make people listen to her even less?  I mean would you want a kid to operate on you even if they were a real surgeon?  So I don't think this was the same as someone pretending to be a surgeon or a pilot  But well I don't know...

Oh I know what it was!!!  You know what? that person was really just one person but also all three persons for real!  Becky was from the past, Lady Pianist was from the future and Roger was from a different reality like what that person would be like if they were born male!    so that way all three persons are real and all three persons are also the same person!!! 

[pianisten1989]

I never ever ever said anything about not "letting you feel the way you do". But you're obviously a grown man (if I didn't misunderstand, you commented on my age as if I were quite young), and I think it's rather silly than any grown up get upset over someone on the internet. It's people all over the world, that we haven't even met! We just assume that they are some random guy, or me make up our own character.

And as Littletune said - they weren't even mean to anyone! They gave really great advice about music, and they were always very polite.
I actually learned quite much from them.

And the thing that hurt your feelings. You took some time to comment on whatever they asked. .. and that's it? It's not like you lost a great deal of time, or that she completely humiliated you in public. And maybe the person really needed help? Maybe s_c_p or Thompson figured that no one  would ever take them seriously if they asked for something. So they created an account, and added some (maybe too much) flavour, only so we help them with a few things.

If you haven't grown up with the internet, then I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings... But this is what it's like, and just get used to it

[ongaku_oniko]

Why the hostility and condescension?

answer:

At the risk of restating the obvious, people are entitled to their feelings, opinions, and reactions.

kthxbye


pianisten:

Don't bother wasting your time over someone who is so full of himself that he cannot see that he is capable of being wrong, cannot see that sometimes people and things need to be forgiven, and does not see the plethora of contradictions and logical fallacies in his own comments, while beig condescending and accusing others of the exact same things he himself does.

No need to waste your time on a hypocrit that can't admit the fact that they are one.

[stevebob]

I never ever ever said anything about not "letting you feel the way you do". But you're obviously a grown man (if I didn't misunderstand, you commented on my age as if I were quite young), and I think it's rather silly than any grown up get upset over someone on the internet. It's people all over the world, that we haven't even met! We just assume that they are some random guy, or me make up our own character.

And as Littletune said - they weren't even mean to anyone! They gave really great advice about music, and they were always very polite.
I actually learned quite much from them.

And the thing that hurt your feelings. You took some time to comment on whatever they asked. .. and that's it? It's not like you lost a great deal of time, or that she completely humiliated you in public. And maybe the person really needed help? Maybe s_c_p or Thompson figured that no one  would ever take them seriously if they asked for something. So they created an account, and added some (maybe too much) flavour, only so we help them with a few things.

If you haven't grown up with the internet, then I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings... But this is what it's like, and just get used to it

No comment!

answer:

kthxbye


pianisten:

Don't bother wasting your time over someone who is so full of himself that he cannot see that he is capable of being wrong, cannot see that sometimes people and things need to be forgiven, and does not see the plethora of contradictions and logical fallacies in his own comments, while beig condescending and accusing others of the exact same things he himself does.

No need to waste your time on a hypocrit that can't admit the fact that they are one.

No comment!

[pianisten1989]

Come on! You really are full of yourself! What I wrote wasn't hostile, it wasn't mean, not rude..! I simply explained my point, AND EVEN WAS SORRY IF I SAID SOMETHING MEAN. Geez!

Now I'm not sorry anymore.

[stevebob]

Come on! You really are full of yourself! What I wrote wasn't hostile, it wasn't mean, not rude..! I simply explained my point, AND EVEN WAS SORRY IF I SAID SOMETHING MEAN. Geez!

Now I'm not sorry anymore.

[nataliethepianist]

My, this has made quite the uproar. Littletune, I see you like those emotion faces . Anyway, I though something like this would happen sooner or later, and I am not going to get too involved with it so it doesn't cause anymore of a controversy.

I have not been on the blog for long, but I realize that this person has actually given good advice, even if they were lying (which I don't know why, maybe just for the thrill of it). So I am glad someone told be as a a new-ish person to this site. And I am not going to act shocked or angry, as I did not spend too much time answering this persons posts, but I can see why some others are frustrated!

Sorry about bringing this up, and thanks for telling me!

- Natalie