Question about Minor Scales in Liszt's technical exercises

[bustthewave]

Hey guys . Wow, I feel like I'm starting too many threads with questions (let me know if this is the case, and I'll back off), but I'm wondering about some of these scales in Liszt's exercises.

I'm doing the preporatory scale pieces, starting in C major, with just two fingers using both hands (which I was surprised is actually tough to coordinate), and when he does the A minor scale, the key I guess would still be in C as it doesn't have any sharps or flats.

I googled "A minor scale" which corroborates this.

However, he sharps... the 6th and 7th note I believe it is, in the scale (the F, and the G).

He does this twice on the way up, then makes them natural on the way down once, and then sharps them again on the last octave.

What kind of scale is this?

I like the sound a lot, but I tried improvising a quick song using this scale, and it took a bit of doing to get those sharps to flow back into a C chord (which sounded pretty cool when it worked).

So what am I missing here?

[musicluvr49]

Hi bustthewave,

This is called the melodic minor. In the melodic minor, the 6th ad 7th degrees of the natural minor scale are raised. The reason you don't raise the notes descending the scale, is because the scale will sound like a major scale when you begin it. You just play the natural minor descending.
I'm not sure how I can help you with the improvisation though. Maybe that's something you should figure that out yourself.  

(Don't worry about asking questions)

[bustthewave]

Hi bustthewave,

This is called the melodic minor. In the melodic minor, the 6th ad 7th degrees of the natural minor scale are raised. The reason you don't raise the notes descending the scale, is because the scale will sound like a major scale when you begin it. You just play the natural minor descending.
I'm not sure how I can help you with the improvisation though. Maybe that's something you should figure that out yourself.  

(Don't worry about asking questions)

Oh okay thanks! I noticed this a bit in my first sight read piece ever (that I started last week), Chopin's prelude No. 12 (I think), "raindrop." Where some notes felt awkward by themselves, but joined with the other notes, made a really interesting and purdy sound. I think they were minors of the major key that did this.

Don't worry about the improvisational stuff, that was just for fun. I enjoyed it, and enjoyed seeing what I could do with the A minor and C chords, I was just wondering if this was standard .

[ongaku_oniko]

YOu're sight reading prelude no.15 (not 12), and you don't know want a melodic minor is?

[bustthewave]

Yea... that about sums it up.

I know my chords, keys, and notes instinctively. This is basic chords, keys, and notes however. So if you ask me to play an F# minor 7th, I can. If you tell me what key we are in, I can fallow along with you by ear.

I basically taught myself a lot of what I know, and it's all by ear. I can fallow chord charts, play with bands, and any number of things, but I never learned to sight read or to really play properly. This is the primary reason I'm here.

So the song isn't overly challenging for me technically speaking, it's actually technically really easy for me. Musicality wise is a completely different story. I'm going to work on the first part of it (before the thunder starts rolling in), which I've technically finished at this point, and post a video to see where I should go from there based on responses (either continue on with the piece, go to easier stuff, or what have you).

Basically it boils down to this - I've played the piano my entire life (since I was 2). I've played completely by ear my entire life. I have had lessons off and on since the age of 4, but the only thing that has really stuck is basic fingering skills. The rest is self taught.

If you want an example of my piano playing, I did post 3 videos for my technique to be critiqued. You can dig it up in the student forum, or in my profile .

[ongaku_oniko]

OH, you're the guy with the really amazingly touching story.

Actually, I would say playing by ear is playing musically, since really, you're playing what is the essence of music, what you think it should sound like. You've not been influenced by the technicalities of man-made musical theories.

So I think you can play musically, but not technically


Oh, what wouldn't I give to be so exceptionally talented like you and becky...

[bustthewave]

OH, you're the guy with the really amazingly touching story.

Actually, I would say playing by ear is playing musically, since really, you're playing what is the essence of music, what you think it should sound like. You've not been influenced by the technicalities of man-made musical theories.

So I think you can play musically, but not technically


Oh, what wouldn't I give to be so exceptionally talented like you and becky...

Wow you just made my day! I mean it!

Thank you so much for that. As much as I am thrilled I'm making the choices I am with music (and my life) right now, I look at people on these forums like becky, and I feel sometimes like I cheated myself greatly. I wonder what my life could have been like if I had been given more opportunities, and I hadn't squandered the opportunities I was given.

I never thought on these boards I would be compared to Becky...

It's just really encouraging and uplifting to hear that.

On a side note, I couldn't even play any kind of rhythm until I was around 16 and joined my first band. I would compose these complicated songs, but they would have no structural rhythm to them. They would start out typically either 3/4, or 4/4, but would quickly change, and turn into ridiculously complicated rhythms, and go back and forth. When I finally did learn how to play with a rhythm, and rhythm became more instinctive, I lost my ability to play like that. Now I can't even replicate the old songs.

So I guess you do have a very valid point with the musically/technically playing ability .