hoaxes

[scottmcc]

so it would appear that we've all been duped rather significantly, at least if the number of locked threads in the audition room is to be believed.  while I can wonder at one's motivations for perpetuating such a ruse, it does make me ponder a few things.  first off, a forum such as this is a prime target for such a thing.  after all, no credentials are required to post a recording, nor is payment of any sort.  the only barrier is the effort that it takes to find a sham recording, doctor it slightly, and then upload it.  quite simply, to do so would be very easy if someone were so motivated.  furthermore, we the readers very much want to believe what we are presented here.  we want to think that everyone posting here is exactly what they say to be, because that's the nature of the community.  "who has a reason to lie?" we ask ourselves, "what could they possibly gain?"  and the story of an undiscovered artistic genius waiting in the wings of the internets is a charming one to us, akin to the frequent discoveries of "new" works by Jackson Pollock or the like.

at least a little of this episode is probably directed at the critiques that the members here post on various recordings.  the quality of these comments is highly variable, as is the quality of the recordings.  I'm sure that some trickster somewhere takes great pleasure in seeing the members of pianostreet critique a fraud in all seriousness.  but perhaps I'm the only one who has seen a similar device used in English comparative lit classes:  teacher takes an obscure passage by a famous author, instructs class to critique it, they tear it apart, dissect its every little flaw and then pronounce it unpublishable, teacher says "gotcha" and reveals it to be from the middle of Great Expectations or the like, and chides the students for being so willing to tear down the great master.  but to this device I say pshaw, as the teacher invited criticism, as do the people who post their recordings here.  and honestly, has anyone read the reviews in the NYTimes of various performances or restaurants?  pretty serious stuff there, for very high quality products.

anyway, in retrospect I too thought that there was something too good to be true about all of the involved charlatans.  becky had way too much emotional maturity for a 12 year old, and far more repertoire than is realistic, even for a very talented one enroute early to a conservatory.  ladypianist had far too good a recording setup for someone so supposedly unsophisticated with computers.  and roger's draconian lesson plan (a year of scales before touching any music?) was too much to believe.  furthermore, he didn't even respond at all to my little military in-jokes, something that is a universal sign of fraud (someone google "fast neat average friendly good good" if they want an interesting aside).

so, I'm glad that this little fracas didn't scare off too many people.  I still won't question the source of things on this website too much, because after all it is an anonymous internet forum.  and eventually, I still hope to have a recording worthy of a mini-masterclass from birba, but it's gonna be a while before I get anything to that level.  now I'm off to work on a presentation for work.  lame.

[kelly_kelly]

Two things: 1. Does anyone know if the IP addresses of the "hoaxes" have been checked? I understand that "Becky's" Scriabin was fake, but have any links between the three been confirmed? 2. Does anyone think that mandating at least one video from each Audition Room poster might help? I know that I don't have any video recording setup as of now, and that this would stop me posting for a while, so I'm not trying to be unfair, but might it be a good idea?

EDIT: And for the record, I noticed weeks ago that ladypianist and becky had similar posting styles... but once they started posting recordings I stopped doubting... because who would take the trouble of faking a recording...?

[thalbergmad]

Well, I fell for it hook line and sinker.

Now I wonder if recordings posted by slow were fake.

Can anyone really be that good??

Thal

[jimbo320]

This is a good place to visit and help each other. Too bad some folks gotta screw things up....

[scottmcc]

Well, I fell for it hook line and sinker.

Now I wonder if recordings posted by slow were fake.

Can anyone really be that good??

Thal

I fell for it too, and even made a number of encouraging comments to all of the involved tricksters.  alas.

as for slow, I sincerely hope he is a fake.  it's so much easier than thinking he is so dense.

kelly, I doubt that video would truly prevent fakers.  heck, I could easily video myself in front of a piano, not show my hands, and then dub it to a recording of Richter with a few splices of video of his hands (but not face).  it'd be harder than just stealing audio, but I'm pretty sure I could do it convincingly in under an hour if I set my mind to it.  they do that kind of thing for movies all the time.

anyway, I still believe that there are great artists out there, and on this site, and I hope this episode hasn't dissuaded the real artists (such as birba, andhow, rachfan, and others) from posting their uniformly fabulous recordings.

[littletune]

Well... at least now I don't have to feel bad about being too childish anymore     Because since Becky came here I was feeling kinda embarrassed about being so childish compared to her... At first when all the people started to admire her sooooo much I felt really jealous and for a while I didn't even feel like posting very much... and I thought she was pretending to be more grownup than she really was just to make grownups like her and admire her... but then after a while I got over it and wasn't jealous of her anymore! So I was happy about that!   But well... so now I can start posting pictures of my toys and all that again    
Oh... but I can kinda understand why someone would do all this... I mean it's like a game!! You know like when you play something and pretend you are some other people and all that... I mean that's really fun   So maybe it was kinda like a pretend game... and I'm sure whoever did this didn't mean anything bad and wasn't trying to make fun of anyone... And I thought Lady Pianist was really cool! I mean even if she's not really real... but movies and people from movies and stories are usually not completely real either but people love them anyway   and they talk about them as if everything was real... and me and my friends have imaginary friends and we talk about them as if they were real! So... well...   I don't really think this was all so bad. I think there was a lot of good things about it too...   It's just sad that they're gone for ever now... like as if they died now   Well but I'm sure noone will forget them     And I'm still thankful and very happy for their very nice and great comments!  

[pianowolfi]

I think Mayla was one of the first who smelled a rat. But I didn't believe her (sorry Mayla!) And then John11 Inch and I still didn't believe it And then Liszt 1025 (or whatever number)...then I started do doubt. I admit I was really naive.

[Mayla]

.

[birba]

Well... at least now I don't have to feel bad about being too childish anymore     Because since Becky came here I was feeling kinda embarrassed about being so childish compared to her... At first when all the people started to admire her sooooo much I felt really jealous and for a while I didn't even feel like posting very much... and I thought she was pretending to be more grownup than she really was just to make grownups like her and admire her... but then after a while I got over it and wasn't jealous of her anymore! So I was happy about that!   But well... so now I can start posting pictures of my toys and all that again    
Oh... but I can kinda understand why someone would do all this... I mean it's like a game!! You know like when you play something and pretend you are some other people and all that... I mean that's really fun   So maybe it was kinda like a pretend game... and I'm sure whoever did this didn't mean anything bad and wasn't trying to make fun of anyone... And I thought Lady Pianist was really cool! I mean even if she's not really real... but movies and people from movies and stories are usually not completely real either but people love them anyway   and they talk about them as if everything was real... and me and my friends have imaginary friends and we talk about them as if they were real! So... well...   I don't really think this was all so bad. I think there was a lot of good things about it too...   It's just sad that they're gone for ever now... like as if they died now   Well but I'm sure noone will forget them     And I'm still thankful and very happy for their very nice and great comments!  

What are you?  Some kind of a saint?!   

[pianowolfi]

@Mayla, yes I was referring to that "Worldclass"-thread.

I had an intense day of writing and just right now I started practicing that newer version of "Styx" which I have finished to write and as always I'm fighting with little details Study is always involved in this, certainly

I also wish you a musically fruitful day!

[thinkgreenlovepiano]

Well... at least now I don't have to feel bad about being too childish anymore     Because since Becky came here I was feeling kinda embarrassed about being so childish compared to her... At first when all the people started to admire her sooooo much I felt really jealous and for a while I didn't even feel like posting very much... and I thought she was pretending to be more grownup than she really was just to make grownups like her and admire her... but then after a while I got over it and wasn't jealous of her anymore! So I was happy about that!   But well... so now I can start posting pictures of my toys and all that again    
Oh... but I can kinda understand why someone would do all this... I mean it's like a game!! You know like when you play something and pretend you are some other people and all that... I mean that's really fun   So maybe it was kinda like a pretend game... and I'm sure whoever did this didn't mean anything bad and wasn't trying to make fun of anyone... And I thought Lady Pianist was really cool! I mean even if she's not really real... but movies and people from movies and stories are usually not completely real either but people love them anyway   and they talk about them as if everything was real... and me and my friends have imaginary friends and we talk about them as if they were real! So... well...   I don't really think this was all so bad. I think there was a lot of good things about it too...   It's just sad that they're gone for ever now... like as if they died now   Well but I'm sure noone will forget them     And I'm still thankful and very happy for their very nice and great comments!  

Littletune, I love your posts, and I'm sure everyone else does too. You don't need to feel "kinda embarrassed" by them And you sound way more mature than my 12 year old sister.  Your posts are much better than mine ... how old do I sound ?
 Take your second paragraph for example... I couldn't have said it better myself.

[kelly_kelly]

Littletune, I love your posts, and I'm sure everyone else does too. You don't need to feel "kinda embarrassed" by them And you sound way more mature than my 12 year old sister.  Your posts are much better than mine ... how old do I sound ?
 Take your second paragraph for example... I couldn't have said it better myself.

I second that! Much better than my posts when I was 12... In fact, let me say that I would be more upset if YOU were a hoax than any other member

[bustthewave]

I dunno, I came in way to late to have an informed opinion about who was faking and who wasn't.

The way Becky was received, it felt like she had been here for years, so I assumed that to be the case. I had no idea she was supposedly 12, until she brought it up in a post.

But I think I would have been duped either way, because I want to believe people are who they say they are.

Regardless, I think (and this is an outsider's perspective, looking in, so take it as you will) maybe what can be done in the future is to not be so in awe of someone online, that we put them on a pedestal, and treat them like royalty. As I joined this community, it was really clear that Becky and LadyPianist were the star performers. They posted, EVERYONE flocked.

So I dunno, maybe it's just good to keep perspective and remember that everyone is human (unless they aren't real haha), and that way it wont be so easy for us to be taken advantage of.

Maybe we're just looking for heroes.

[bustthewave]

I second that! Much better than my posts when I was 12... In fact, let me say that I would be more upset if YOU were a hoax than any other member

And let me third this.

I also want to point out that while Becky and CrazyPianist had celebrity status, your thread about practicing is like... 90 replies. Becky never even touched that with any of her posts.

[pianisten1989]

I don't understand why you get so upset.. Do you really care that much if some total stranger from the internet lied to you? I mean, they both came with some great advice, and I really enjoyed their recordings...

[pianowolfi]

I don't understand why you get so upset.. Do you really care that much if some total stranger from the internet lied to you? I mean, they both came with some great advice, and I really enjoyed their recordings...

I think it must have been somebody with a lot of knowledge about piano.
So, well how about a little competition . For instance Nils could offer one year gold membership for free to the person who is able to identify the villain

[stevebob]

I say good riddance to all of them.

[ongaku_oniko]

I hope they stay and give more musical advice. It's okay if they start a new account to avoid answering why they did this

I just want advice and more recordings

[Mayla]

.

[ongaku_oniko]

wow, everyone of your posts sounds to me like you're part of a cult.

No offense.

[thalbergmad]

She is not part of a cult, she is a cult.

Foxyism.

Thal

[stevebob]

Foxyism?  Hmmm.  That sounds a lot like Fuxism, which I imagine is the cult of counterpoint.

[pianowolfi]

She is not part of a cult, she is a cult.

Foxyism.

Thal

Indeed, a very important difference. 

In German it's called Foxologie.

 

[littletune]

What are you?  Some kind of a saint?!   

A saint? Why?   Cause I'm not angry at people who did this? Well I just wanna understand it I guess    

Littletune, I love your posts, and I'm sure everyone else does too. You don't need to feel "kinda embarrassed" by them And you sound way more mature than my 12 year old sister.   Your posts are much better than mine ... how old do I sound ?
 Take your second paragraph for example... I couldn't have said it better myself.

Thanks!     I really don't think my posts are better than yours! I'm not sure how old you sound   I haven't really been thinking about it Maybe like... 17 or something   I hope I don't offend you or something... I just said the first thing that came to my mind  

I second that! Much better than my posts when I was 12... In fact, let me say that I would be more upset if YOU were a hoax than any other member

Really??   Now I feel so important! Thanks!   Oh... and I am really a ghost    

And let me third this.

I also want to point out that while Becky and CrazyPianist had celebrity status, your thread about practicing is like... 90 replies. Becky never even touched that with any of her posts.

Thank you!!     Yes that post about practicing really became long!!!   Oh and I did notice then that it had a lot more views and replys than Becky's thread about having bad days   even though she posted it before me   I was kinda happy about it then   but that's kinda bad   but it was just because I was jealous   but then I wasn't anymore!    

I think it must have been somebody with a lot of knowledge about piano.
So, well how about a little competition . For instance Nils could offer one year gold membership for free to the person who is able to identify the villain

Yes that would be cool! But I have no idea how we could find that person! You think they're still here under some other name?   If they're still here I wish they sent me a pm and told me why they did it! I wouldn't tell anyone I promise!! I'm just really curious!   What if they're really an alien??   And they're trying to learn about humans?!!    

[thinkgreenlovepiano]

Thanks!     I really don't think my posts are better than yours! I'm not sure how old you sound   I haven't really been thinking about it Maybe like... 17 or something   I hope I don't offend you or something... I just said the first thing that came to my mind  

17!???! How could you think that I'm so old!?  


...
...

Just kidding, you're pretty close actually. I thought you would guess 10 or something. So I'm glad I sound somewhat mature. Sometimes I feel like Peter Pan, never wanting to grow up.

And now I feel really guilty for bringing this thread so off topic. Sorry again! :/

[thebuchertrain]

I'm just really curious!   What if they're really an alien??   And they're trying to learn about humans?!!    

hahahaha!! that's it!

I'm disappointed they weren't real- I did learn some stuff. and things.

But it's ok, 'cause i was better than all of them! 

[lostinidlewonder]

A little common sense goes a long way, if you believe a 70+ year old lady can play the piano like a younger concert pianist with such strength and fluidity, then that merely highlights your own lack of piano knowledge. I use to shoot down the fraudsters but the moderators got annoyed with me thus I merely ignore them now.

People get bored very fast on the internet. Some people post all they can and then need to conjour up some ideas for attention. It is like a child who is never played with, they will start acting up to attract attention from anyone they can, whether that be crying, messing up the place, making noise what have you. Looking through a users post history can reveal a huge amount about their posting style and you can notice irregularities in what they have posted which discredits them.

Serious users also get bored with this forum sometimes and respond to people being stupid (or extending/removing the truth) merely because it is something to respond to and different to what has been discussed before (even though its based on something "made up" to encourage response/attention).

[perfect_pitch]

A little common sense goes a long way, if you believe a 70+ year old lady can play the piano like a younger concert pianist with such strength and fluidity, then that merely highlights your own lack of piano knowledge. I use to shoot down the fraudsters but the moderators got annoyed with me thus I merely ignore them now.

Wait a minute - Horowitz was still doing recordings of Piano concertos up until his 80's... I think it's highly improbable for an 80 year old to still play piano like a professional (though I bloody well hope note as I hope to be playing up until the day I die)

I mean, it's rare... but surely not impossible.

[ongaku_oniko]

A little common sense goes a long way, if you believe a 70+ year old lady can play the piano like a younger concert pianist with such strength and fluidity, then that merely highlights your own lack of piano knowledge. I use to shoot down the fraudsters but the moderators got annoyed with me thus I merely ignore them now.

People get bored very fast on the internet. Some people post all they can and then need to conjour up some ideas for attention. It is like a child who is never played with, they will start acting up to attract attention from anyone they can, whether that be crying, messing up the place, making noise what have you. Looking through a users post history can reveal a huge amount about their posting style and you can notice irregularities in what they have posted which discredits them.

Serious users also get bored with this forum sometimes and respond to people being stupid (or extending/removing the truth) merely because it is something to respond to and different to what has been discussed before (even though its based on something "made up" to encourage response/attention).

why would you go throught that much trouble to identify a fraud, when it doesn't even affect you in the first place? I for one don't really give if any of you are real or not. I don't care if you're all the same person. As long as I see good advice, hear good music, I'm good. Really, I haven't been duped, because I know what I came here for, and I got what I wanted. Whoever gives t doesn't matter to me.

[Bob]

I found the audio issue a little annoying.  That could create problems for Nils if people are posting copywritten material on here.

[lostinidlewonder]

Horowitz is an exceptional case I agree but he was a man. I believe there was a difference between his last years of playing and his younger years. Of course this musical assessment is subjective but really as the body grows older your playing also changes no matter who you are. I would also like to dream I will play with as much energy today as I will on my last days if I grow to be an old man! The passages posted on pianostreet that where supposed to be an older lady playing some technical monsters without ever sounding taxed of energy and passages crisp and clean, just highlighted to me and spoke to me of a hand that was young and full of energy. It might exist, but I won't believe it without seeing it with my own eyes because I have never seen it in my life and would very much like to see it.

[lostinidlewonder]

why would you go throught that much trouble to identify a fraud, when it doesn't even affect you in the first place?

Just because I like to ruffle the feathers of people who are trying to fool others, it entertains me, but alas I am not allowed!

[Bob]

I'm all for weeding them out of the forum.  Keep weeding lostinidlewonder, I say.

[ongaku_oniko]

I'm wondering what harm they've done to the forum, other than give good advice.

In fact I'd say the people who exposed this has done more harm... now everyone's pissed.

As they say, ignorance is bless

[Mayla]

.

[perfect_pitch]

The passages posted on pianostreet that where supposed to be an older lady playing some technical monsters without ever sounding taxed of energy and passages crisp and clean, just highlighted to me and spoke to me of a hand that was young and full of energy.

How old did she claim to be anyway??? I didn't check her recordings or her threads out...

[birba]

76.  when she said she had participated in the geneva competition in 1957, I looked at the book of contestants and there were only 2 other feminine russian or let's say eastern European names.  I asked her how was it possible she didn't even pass the first round?!  And she said she had had an accident and didn't particiapte...   

[pianowolfi]

I just noticed that all the hoaxes threads are gone....

[liszt1022]

I'm wondering what harm they've done to the forum, other than give good advice.
In fact I'd say the people who exposed this has done more harm... now everyone's pissed.
As they say, ignorance is bless

Keep the advice as you like.
I don't think everyone is pissed, maybe a few but I think more people are just disappointed.
Ignorance is bliss, but it's also ignorance. I'd rather get emotionally worked up from the truth than be blissfully ignorant.
And I just don't like Internet trolls.

[littletune]

I just noticed that all the hoaxes threads are gone....

Oh   well... that's kinda sad...
Well I know I'm stupid but I just have to say that in one thread Birba said: Littletune you are priceless   (I think it was like that)  
And I also wanted to say that Pianolady said that Littletune and Enzo and... (well) Becky... inspired her... and I was really happy and proud about that!   Oh well...
And noone sent me a message yet and told me why they did it! I'm still waiting!   Although I think I kinda understand it... but maybe I understand it wrong  
Oh but one thing I don't understand! Why did they post recordings of other people? Like if I imagine playing or pretending to be different people... I think I would wanna play all of the things myself just as a different person, and then I would wanna see if imagining being a different person would make what I was playing sound any different...   I really wanna know if it would! So well I don't know exactly why would you want people to comment on other people's playing... but I guess you can learn something from that too! So I guess that's why they did it... to learn something... But they were also really nice and helpful to others... so I guess they wanted to teach other people too... so I don't know why people are so angry... because I think it was all meant in a good way! I'm really sure! I mean Piano lady even wrote when she deleted her threads in the audition room that she wished everyone all the best! So I'm sure the person who did this really does wish everyone here all the best! I just know it!!!   I'm sure! I'm COMPLETELY sure!!!  

[jimbo320]

ALERT! I'm chiming in........lol
People are in two groups. The one's that do and the one's that watch. The watchers watch the doers do. But some of the watchers become envious of the doers. Not having the ability to become a doer themselves they try to uplift themselves through the eyes and ears of others.
This plan rarely works out because sooner or later we all look in the mirror...

Musically, Jimbo

[birba]

Oh   well... that's kinda sad...
Well I know I'm stupid but I just have to say that in one thread Birba said: Littletune you are priceless   (I think it was like that)  
And I also wanted to say that Pianolady said that Littletune and Enzo and... (well) Becky... inspired her... and I was really happy and proud about that!   Oh well...
And noone sent me a message yet and told me why they did it! I'm still waiting!   Although I think I kinda understand it... but maybe I understand it wrong  
Oh but one thing I don't understand! Why did they post recordings of other people? Like if I imagine playing or pretending to be different people... I think I would wanna play all of the things myself just as a different person, and then I would wanna see if imagining being a different person would make what I was playing sound any different...   I really wanna know if it would! So well I don't know exactly why would you want people to comment on other people's playing... but I guess you can learn something from that too! So I guess that's why they did it... to learn something... But they were also really nice and helpful to others... so I guess they wanted to teach other people too... so I don't know why people are so angry... because I think it was all meant in a good way! I'm really sure! I mean Piano lady even wrote when she deleted her threads in the audition room that she wished everyone all the best! So I'm sure the person who did this really does wish everyone here all the best! I just know it!!!   I'm sure! I'm COMPLETELY sure!!!  

Yep.  You're a saint.

[emill]

Well, I fell for it hook line and sinker.

Now I wonder if recordings posted by slow were fake.

Can anyone really be that good??

Thal

Wow!!! ...hahahaaaahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am an adoring fan of your unique sense of humor!

[oxy60]

Question. Why would anyone pay to be a member and then post falsely? Or are there posters here who haven't paid to be a member? I thought we all were paid members. Am I wrong?

[fleetfingers]

A Silver Membership is FREE.

Just checked...they were/are all Silver Members.

[ongaku_oniko]

boy... were you ripped off if you thought you had to pay to have access to this forum XD

[stevebob]

slow, on the other hand, was/is a Gold member.  Maybe he thought payment might ensure his uniquely awful recordings would survive for more than a day in the Audition Room.

[ongaku_oniko]

who's slow?

[littletune]

Yep.  You're a saint.

Well I don't really think I am... but thank you VERY much for saying that anyway!   

17!???! How could you think that I'm so old!?  


...
...

Just kidding, you're pretty close actually. I thought you would guess 10 or something. So I'm glad I sound somewhat mature. Sometimes I feel like Peter Pan, never wanting to grow up.

And now I feel really guilty for bringing this thread so off topic. Sorry again! :/

Oh you know... I think maybe I wanna stay 12 too  I mean I'm not really looking forward to being 13... I mean I don't really wanna be a teenager! Cause then you're supposed to think about stupid boring boys and stupid boring clothes and stupid boring makeup and all other stupid boring things teenagers are supposed to think about!  And I wanna think about toys and music and piano and my imaginary world and being in nature and all that!  So... I don't know   

[thinkgreenlovepiano]

Oh you know... I think maybe I wanna stay 12 too  I mean I'm not really looking forward to being 13... I mean I don't really wanna be a teenager! Cause then you're supposed to think about stupid boring boys and stupid boring clothes and stupid boring makeup and all other stupid boring things teenagers are supposed to think about!  And I wanna think about toys and music and piano and my imaginary world and being in nature and all that!  So... I don't know   

Yeah, I wish I was 12 again, sometimes . But don't worry about turning 13, 13 is still fun. It's not like life will magically turn stupid and boring.  I'm a teen and I still think about my music and piano and my imaginary world... and nature!!! That's why my username is thinkgreenlovepiano