hoaxes

[Bob]

I suppose Nils would have to do a lot of detective work to dig up anything more.  Banning or suspending those accounts would be easier. 

I'm surprised he hasn't said more about having copyrighted material up on the site like that.

I think it's safe that it's someone older than a kid and not as old as LadyPianist was supposed to be, 70-something.  Another angle... How many 70-year-olds do you know who are computer savvy?  I didn't LadyPianist's posts.  I think she was supposed to be 70.  And if someone is that old and that good (I didn't listen to her posted material), would they be interested in an online forum?  They would have habits of practicing all day.  *Bob is wondering now how much technology and internet use the pianists he knows actually us.*  I know one pianist who doesn't even have a phone or car.  I'm doubting he even has a computer.  But he's a decent pianist.

[ongaku_oniko]

I totally agree with this point on ladypianist. However, what about Birba? He's also not that young, but is on a forum like this.

What I'm really interested in right now, is why Nils didn't delete one of Rogers' recordings.

The three accounts for Becky, LP and Roger were all created by the same person.

All recordings (except for Roger's Bach Inventions) were removed by Becky/LP/Roger and the remaining topics were then deleted by the forum administration. The three accounts are now suspended.

This has been bothering me for a while.

[birba]

what about Birba? He's also not that young,

Amen!

[birba]

When you come right down to it, the only law broken was the copyright law.   You certainly don't have to swear on a bible before posting on pianostreet.com, and if someone wants to create a hoax, it's only up to the discretion of the monitor to decide what to do. 

[scottmcc]

When you come right down to it, the only law broken was the copyright law.   You certainly don't have to swear on a bible before posting on pianostreet.com, and if someone wants to create a hoax, it's only up to the discretion of the monitor to decide what to do. 

yes!  and this is one of the fundamental characteristics of an internet forum.  nobody swears that they represent themselves truthfully, but part of the general expectation of the forum is that you conduct yourself at least semi-honestly.  this especially applies to one's descriptions of oneself, such as age, gender, background, etc.  however, it's really quite easy to create a different online personality, since everything you post can be carefully chosen to present whatever you desire.  I personally try to just be me, but I know a lot of people who try to present a quite different front.  clearly this is a far different issue than that of someone having conversations with 3 different versions of themselves, and stealing copyrighted material in support of the same, but I think that on some level, they are related issues. 

on a semi-related note, I'm reading Neuhaus' book right now.  There are a lot of little quips in there that make me pretty convinced that whoever this hoaxster was, they were well read, or at least the part of them that was "ladypianist" was.  "becky" had clearly read Gieseking's book, as I commented to her at one point a while ago, and some of her remarks about transposing pieces on the fly to match a singer were stories that had been attributed to Franz Liszt.  Roger, on the other hand, was the least developed of the personalities.  Hanon, Bach, Beethoven.  I think that this personality was a response to the widespread internet belief that if you only practice your exercises enough, in a sufficiently disciplined manner, that you will become great, and that such is the only path to greatness (cue the hanon wars and the entry of the anti-hanonites).

anyway, I don't really care who the culprit was, although I would prefer that such things do not recur.  I like this forum, and think that the quality of the discussion is generally pretty good.  things like this detract significantly.

[philolog]

To all and sundry,

I was unaware that Lady Pianist was apparently one of multiple names connected with a hoax. However, before learning of this possible deception, I listened to the version of La Campanella and thought it was an excellent recording. Does anyone know if it was recorded by some other pianist (as in the Hatto fiasco)? While researching "Lady Pianist" a bit, I came across a name which I can no longer remember (Vera something?) which seemed to be the real name of Lady Pianist. Does anyone else recall seeing this name and if so, could you post it?

Finally, I would like the link to the La Campanella performance, because, hoax or not, I would like to be able to hear it again. Thanks for your help.

[Bob]

I totally agree with this point on ladypianist. However, what about Birba? He's also not that young, but is on a forum like this.

What I'm really interested in right now, is why Nils didn't delete one of Rogers' recordings.


This has been bothering me for a while.

I think Birba's actually a she.


That is strange about the Roger Inventions.  Nils must be going on the side of going along with whatever the poster says, except in this case I think all the other recordings were rip offs.  I would assume these Roger Inventions would also be from someone other than Roger.  And Nils didn't take down the recordings either... Odd.  *Bob thinks this is a good sign for making a "Name that tune" thread that includes excerpts from pro recordings.*

[birba]

I think Birba's actually a she.


That is strange about the Roger Inventions.  Nils must be going on the side of going along with whatever the poster says, except in this case I think all the other recordings were rip offs.  I would assume these Roger Inventions would also be from someone other than Roger.  And Nils didn't take down the recordings either... Odd.  *Bob thinks this is a good sign for making a "Name that tune" thread that includes excerpts from pro recordings.*

I told you!  I'm a middle-aged asian lady.

[birba]

anyway, I don't really care who the culprit was, although I would prefer that such things do not recur.  I like this forum, and think that the quality of the discussion is generally pretty good.  things like this detract significantly.

But don't you see?  That whole period was very stimulating and good things came out of it.  I mean, I AM sort of pissed off that I took the time to make a video for Becky, but even if it wasn't her, I was doing it for whoever had made that video. (Albeit, they never asked for it.)  And the discussions that came up, e.g. accompanying an amateur show, sofrinitsky, etc. were actually very imformative.  So, really we were only made to feel like jack-asses.  That's all.   

[Derek]

I actually think I have a pretty good idea of who it is, but I don't intend to make a fool of myself by stating that here (all I have to go on is pure intuition). I'd love to know some day who it was, and if I was right, but I'm probably wrong. I once thought pianistimo and m1469 were the same person! How ridiculous =D.

If I were nils I think I'd let people have their fun so long as they weren't posting recordings by others. In other words, it shouldn't matter if someone has more than one persona, if they're not being abusive or are indeed being helpful or getting something out of this website, I don't think I'd go after them just for that.

That being the case, we can only guess!

[tds]

I once thought pianistimo and m1469 were the same person! How ridiculous =D.

/quote]

yup - impossible. pianistimo n thalbergmad perhaps are one person

[m1469]

I once thought pianistimo and m1469 were the same person!

Well, I'm not sure what to say about that, since pianistimo was some sort of puppet for the forum.  Believe me, there are ways to know the real women from the puppet women!

But, yes, I did experiment for a time, in a couple of ways.  Towards the beginning when I was here, I had several personalities, one of them being Gargamel.  haha.  I even pretended that Gargy had a crush on m1469, but that actually made me blush a little  .

I also, though, just picked a completely random name one time, made a random post which included some kind of beliefs about music and piano, and then, just to see what would happen, I googled the name with "piano" and actually easily found somebody who was a pianist, and who seemed to be a close enough match in musical thoughts that it would've been totally believable!  I had just wanted to see how difficult it would actually be to be a persona with website and photos to match (well, and that was starting with nothing.  Obviously, you can start with something you already find and then easily create a forum persona from there).  Not too difficult, as it turns out!  Or else, I just got lucky!  But, mostly, at some point I did decide I could spend my time in other ways.

[nilsjohan]

What I'm really interested in right now, is why Nils didn't delete one of Rogers' recordings.

As soon as the hoax was revealed all recordings except the Inventions were removed by Becky-LP-Roger him-/herself. We then removed all topics in the audition room lacking recordings and since the Invention recordings were still in place and we have no indications that they are stolen copyrighted works we have left them up.
I hope this explains at least that part of the mystery!

[Derek]

But, yes, I did experiment for a time, in a couple of ways.  Towards the beginning when I was here, I had several personalities, one of them being Gargamel.  haha.  I even pretended that Gargy had a crush on m1469, but that actually made me blush a little  .

You were gargamel? That's awesome! I kept imagining a nerdy norwegian guy with long hair and glasses for some reason. And, I liked the improvs "he" made, and often wondered if he would ever come back and keep growing! Looks like "he" has! =D

[m1469]

You were gargamel? That's awesome! I kept imagining a nerdy norwegian guy with long hair and glasses for some reason. And, I liked the improvs "he" made, and often wondered if he would ever come back and keep growing! Looks like "he" has! =D

Well, awesome or not, I can tell you for certain that my aspirations in life are not to be thinking back over it in my later years, thinking "ahhhh ... I sure fooled everybody, didn't I" and to realize I was too afraid to ever let anybody know who I actually am.  I definitely have different goals than that .

[ahinton]

I once thought pianistimo and m1469 were the same person! How ridiculous =D.

Indeed so; pianistimayla would surely be beyond the merely impossible!

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

pianistimo n thalbergmad perhaps are one person

Message #165 applies equally to whoever may have made such a suggestion.

Best,

Alistair

[m1469]

Indeed so; pianistimayla would surely be beyond the merely impossible!

Best,

Alistair

Well, actually, I really don't like that name at all and I will take that as a direct insult, actually.  I realize that right now, people think it's so cool to role play, and learn from the drama of characters and all that, and to make order out of chaos, and learn truth through error ... yadda, yadda.  I'm thinking some people might even think Monsty may make an appearance or that this is how we cope with life and learn to play music, etc..  And, it's considered to be like "cool, this is all so cool, and look at me, I am such an easy-going spirit that I'll just be whatever anybody says and wants."   But, I definitely still don't feel like I'm actually part of it.  You see?  And, the fact that I can sense that doesn't make me want to be a part of it, you see?

[birba]

Wow.  this thing is really getting deep.  In fact, it's over my head...

[littletune]

Littletune is real. I can say because she has sent me a wonderful drawing and a Christmas card via snailmail, and it's absolutely original. I can see that it's real because you can't make up something like this, either you have the feeling or not, and she has it, it's not possible to fake it. I am very proud that she has sent it to me and I like it very much

Thank you Wolfi!      

And Ongaku Oniko I think I should thank you for suggesting it was me because then some people said really nice things about me and I'm happy about that and that they trust me

Oh and Birba is not really that old!   He's just saying he is all the time but he's not really...   and Lady Pianist was 76 I think! Oh and her name was Nina (cause someone asked). And no I don't know that cause I'm her I just remember things like that  

[ongaku_oniko]

I'm not sure how sarcastic your comment was, but As I've mentioned, take it as a compliment that I think your English is great.

It never was meant to be offensive... I don't know why everyone suddenly had to go "defend" littletunes when

a) I indicated that I didn't really believe it either
b) I didn't think that it was a bad thing
c) There were other suggestions, none of which got the same, or indeed, any responses back.

There was no need to "defend" littletunes... certainly not 100000000 times.

The full name is Nina Vaskova, Becky was Rebecca Stern.


And I could totally seem1469and pianistimo (sp?) as the same person.

[m1469]

And I could totally seem1469and pianistimo (sp?) as the same person.

Oh, gee, I can't *believe* I went and told it what I would consider an insult!  I unknowingly let somebody know where I tired my goatz.  Whoas meez.  I am terribly surprised that somebody has gone ahead and decided to use it   .

Anyway, I actually don't believe you.  It's a nice detailed touch, though, that you include the "(sp?)" part.  That's one of the those little things which supposedly makes a convincing character.

[Derek]

And I could totally seem1469and pianistimo (sp?) as the same person.

I have a long history of mistakenly believing two people online as being the same, going back to my adolescence. So, while I have a strong suspicion I know of multiple personas being the same person, I'm almost certain to be wrong. So, unless that person volunteers the information themselves, I'll forever be in the dark! 

[ongaku_oniko]

Oh, gee, I can't *believe* I went and told it what I would consider an insult!  I unknowingly let somebody know where I tired my goatz.  Whoas meez.  I am terribly surprised that somebody has gone ahead and decided to use it   .

Anyway, I actually don't believe you.  It's a nice detailed touch, though, that you include the "(sp?)" part.  That's one of the those little things which supposedly makes a convincing character.

It wasn't meant as an insult, I was simply stating that I could see it happen. But ifyou deny it, then I believe you. However, your posts, as Birba say, always goes over my head... much too profound for me

[m1469]

*looks into mirror*

Seriously, you're choosing this?  Seriously?  Choose something else!  So sorry, Marik, for not getting my paper done yet.  I feel like sh*t right now for being here instead, but at least I'm learning why I choose this and I'm trying to do something about it.  And, if somebody else happens to be reading, I hope you can accept me even aside from all of this.

[littletune]

I'm not sure how sarcastic your comment was, but As I've mentioned, take it as a compliment that I think your English is great.

It never was meant to be offensive... I don't know why everyone suddenly had to go "defend" littletunes when

a) I indicated that I didn't really believe it either
b) I didn't think that it was a bad thing
c) There were other suggestions, none of which got the same, or indeed, any responses back.

There was no need to "defend" littletunes... certainly not 100000000 times.

The full name is Nina Vaskova, Becky was Rebecca Stern.


And I could totally seem1469and pianistimo (sp?) as the same person.

My comment wasn't sarcastic AT ALL! (I don't even know exactly what sarcastic means... I mean I think it's something like saying "Oh this is great" when you really think it's bad right?  ) ...So well I did mean it exactly like I said it and I'm not offended or anything and I am happy that so many people defended me!    Thanks everyone

But what does "(sp?)" mean?  And isn't pianistimo someone who was here like a billion years ago? (i mean really long ago) I mean how could you know anything about her Ongaku Oniko?   
Well I'm getting consfused by this thread too  oh well whatever

[ongaku_oniko]

My comment wasn't sarcastic AT ALL! (I don't even know exactly what sarcastic means... I mean I think it's something like saying "Oh this is great" when you really think it's bad right?   ) ...So well I did mean it exactly like I said it and I'm not offended or anything and I am happy that so many people defended me!     Thanks everyone

But what does "(sp?)" mean?   And isn't pianistimo someone who was here like a billion years ago? (i mean really long ago) I mean how could you know anything about her Ongaku Oniko?  
Well I'm getting consfused by this thread too   oh well whatever

Great questions.

1, that's basically what "sarcastic" means. To say something you don't mean.

2. (sp?) means spelling? Because I'm not sure if it's the right spelling.

3. Good question. I don't know pianistimo at all. But there's this thread in anything but piano about the top posters here, and I saw the name pianistimo, so I did a search and saw some of her jibberish conversations with mayla. That's why I thin they're so similar; I don't actually know either of them though, and honestly I'm glad I don't. It's not that they're not good people, they probably are; just that I will never be able to understand what they're saying, and it frustrates me to not understand

[fleetfingers]

But what does "(sp?)" mean?   And isn't pianistimo someone who was here like a billion years ago? (i mean really long ago) I mean how could you know anything about her Ongaku Oniko?  
Well I'm getting consfused by this thread too   oh well whatever

I also wonder how ongaku knows who pianistimo is. I have been around longer than him and know OF her, but I'm not familiar with her personality and, therefore, would not be a good judge of whether or not she could be m1469.

littletune, "(sp?)" is what you put after a word if you're not sure the spelling is right.

[thalbergmad]

And isn't pianistimo someone who was here like a billion years ago? (

That is impossible my little sweetie, as pianistimo "proved" beyond all doubt that the Universe is only 6,000 years old

Thal

[stevebob]

*looks into mirror*

Seriously, you're choosing this?  Seriously?  Choose something else!  So sorry, Marik, for not getting my paper done yet.  I feel like sh*t right now for being here instead, but at least I'm learning why I choose this and I'm trying to do something about it.  And, if somebody else happens to be reading, I hope you can accept me even aside from all of this.

Oh, so you know dear departed Marik, do you?  Just like Karli, who hasn't been around here recently (since about the time you returned, if I recall correctly).  And your writing styles are very similar, too.  Huh.  Coincidences abound!

[thalbergmad]

I am not a hoax.

I am idiotic on forums and idiotic in real life.

Bollox

Thal

[stevebob]

Then Bollox = Luv. 

[littletune]

Thanks for explanations!

That is impossible my little sweetie, as pianistimo "proved" beyond all doubt that the Universe is only 6,000 years old

Thal

Hmmm 6 000 years seems really young for a universe!...   that must be like a baby universe... or maybe a newborn baby universe      

m1469 is a genius! That's why you can't always understand everything she says so exactly! But she's really cool  
And Oh... I don't think that's a secret or anything is it? I mean m1469 is K it's even in Karli's signature   (Or was that sarcastic comment or something   yes I'm really getting confused).

[m1469]

Oh, so you know dear departed Marik, do you?  Just like Karli, who hasn't been around here recently (since about the time you returned, if I recall correctly).  And your writing styles are very similar, too.  Huh.  Coincidences abound!

Yes, I do know him, he's one of my dear teachers in the flesh (I have two very dear teachers in the flesh), and I have actually admitted freely that I am Karli, so no, you're not uncovering anything of mystery, sorry!  

I will back up for a minute, though, and say to Nils that I'm sorry if my comment was offensive to you, and there are individuals here who are enjoyable, and I didn't mean offense to you, either.  Even the ones who aren't necessarily "enjoyable" for me, my own thoughts have to do with the fact that I know I'm not living up to my full potential, and that really bothers me, and I believe there are also tangible individuals in my life who care about that on some level (and I can be working more diligently towards those endeavors they have bothered to set up with me).  Coming here and getting wrapped up in this thread has not been any form of myself living up to my potential (until just now, actually!).  Some discussions on the forum are, though!

All the same, I have music to get up to tempo and details to be ironing out, and I believe that I can do it!  And, I have reading to do from actual, real live books!  I have a garden to weed, and a paper to write.  Improvising to do (Derek, I still want to learn from the post you made in my progression thread).  And, if I get those done, I have arias to learn, singing to do, research, discovery, drawing and maybe painting to do, hiking to do, spending time with family and my friends, my doggy ... doing nice things for other people.  And, I know more or less why I don't choose these things!  AND, they are not good enough reasons!  I mean, you could say that I am choosing to be in this silly hoax thread over singing.  When I look at it that way, I've got to wonder about myself ... eh?  But, I am facing the fears.  OKAY?

As Gargy used to say ... ta ta!  

[birba]

m1469 is Karli?!  Pianistimo was a woman?  And where is this top posters thing?!  I'm sinking deeper and deeper...

[ongaku_oniko]

I was referring to this: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=35590.0

That's where I saw pianistimo's name.

[pianowolfi]

m1469 is Karli?!  Pianistimo was a woman?  And where is this top posters thing?!  I'm sinking deeper and deeper...

Don't worry. m1469 is K and was Gargy (hee hee I like Gargy )  and pianistimo is a woman, she got banned a while ago. Nevertheless I have met her in person and I can confirm that she is real.

And I have been here always only the one and only

Pianowolfi.

Cheers and good night

[Bob]

I also, though, just picked a completely random name one time, made a random post which included some kind of beliefs about music and piano, and then, just to see what would happen, I googled the name with "piano" and actually easily found somebody who was a pianist, and who seemed to be a close enough match in musical thoughts that it would've been totally believable!  I had just wanted to see how difficult it would actually be to be a persona with website and photos to match (well, and that was starting with nothing.  Obviously, you can start with something you already find and then easily create a forum persona from there).  Not too difficult, as it turns out!  Or else, I just got lucky!  But, mostly, at some point I did decide I could spend my time in other ways.

Who's this other member that was created?

I thought pianistimo was real.  She had a pic but now... that doesn't mean much.  But she posted so much.  It would be worked to post that much by itself.

[m1469]

Who's this other member that was created?

I don't remember his name, but it was a guy.  I don't even know how to start looking for it!  And, there were some personas that I made back when we could erase the account if we wanted to, and for some of them, I did that.  I don't remember if it was during that time, or what.  Gargy's isn't erased though.

I thought pianistimo was real.  She had a pic but now... that doesn't mean much.  But she posted so much.  It would be worked to post that much by itself.

When she was nice to me, I used to want her to be real.  But, then she started doing little back-handed insults and I decided I didn't need to bother anymore.  But, there are plenty of reasons I don't think she's real.  Sorry.

[m1469]

Don't worry. m1469 is K and was Gargy (hee hee I like Gargy )  and pianistimo is a woman, she got banned a while ago. Nevertheless I have met her in person and I can confirm that she is real.

And I have been here always only the one and only

Pianowolfi.

Cheers and good night

I guess it's a bit strange to me because K is my actual name, I've even gone by that here and let people know, and I've even let some people here more or less know me more than others.  The real me.  Not to mention that I've actually met people here.  So, the fact that anybody would even act suspicious of me makes me suspicious ... haha ... and that seems fake.  But, I guess if people prefer not to know me, that's your own problem.  I quit my other personas because I wanted to be more myself and not all these silly people, though they did reflect some "part" of who I am, and sometimes I felt I needed them in order to be honest, actually.  It wasn't actually fully healthy for me.  But, I also always figured somebody knew that it was me.

[Bob]

Dangit.  *Bob thought pianistimo was real.*  I'm still leaning toward her being real.

[m1469]

Well, maybe she is, I don't actually know.  There are just reasons I think she's not her own person.  Even if she's not her own person, maybe she's like my personas were and it represented a part.  But, my other personas were only here for brief moments and then gone.

[cygnusdei]

Now I'm confused. Am I ... real? How do I know for sure

[birba]

Now I'm really curious.  Are you the real m1469?  In the sense, is "mayla" a verified human being?  I had been here a while before you "returned" to the scene.  I was quite fascinated by m1469's personae.  I think Ongaku hit it on the nail when he asked if m1469 was in some sort of cult.  The esoteric comments which I find difficult to follow, the "Werther" angst sort of voice, etc. really got under my skin at times.  Now that m1469 admits to having created other personae,  I'm wondering if m1469 is a creation...

[pianowolfi]

That's the sad aspect of these hoaxes. They cause distrust and suspicions and make people doubt everybody.
I think in general I am doing quite well with my motto that I should not make any difference between my internet persona and my real one. I try to act on the internet as I am in real life and I am not part of the philosophy that says "It's only the internet, you can do whatever you want, offend people, and don't get offended by others, it's just the internet..." etc.

[birba]

AMEN to that!

[littletune]

Still confused  Why is everyone now saying pianistimo isn't real? If Wolfi said he met her  I think I even once saw a picture of them (probably in pictures thread).  Oh well it doesn't matter. I'm sure Wolfi is real
And I'm really real too  I sometimes feel like I'm even more real here than in real life... I mean like I can be more me here... cause in real life I have to sometimes act the way I know people expect me to... like more serious and smart and more grownup... and I really hate it, but sometimes I just have to  cause I don't wanna disappoint people and things like that  And here I'm just really me and I don't pretend to be smarter or anything... I just say stupid things and all that and it's cool   

[m1469]

Now I'm really curious.  Are you the real m1469?  In the sense, is "mayla" a verified human being?  I had been here a while before you "returned" to the scene.  I was quite fascinated by m1469's personae.  I think Ongaku hit it on the nail when he asked if m1469 was in some sort of cult.  The esoteric comments which I find difficult to follow, the "Werther" angst sort of voice, etc. really got under my skin at times.  Now that m1469 admits to having created other personae,  I'm wondering if m1469 is a creation...

First of all, Gargamel came and left in 2005, that was 6 years ago.  I think he was my only other alias that stayed around even as long as he did, which wasn't much, but it's been only m1469 since around that time (and there are certain people I was honest with regarding it).  I've been around since 2004, m1469 has, who is my original alias and no, not my real name.  I'll admit m1469 is a little complex but definitely me.  Whether you like it or not is not really my problem, but I don't mean to fool anybody into anything and even revealed my real name.  If a person reading this does know that name and would like to pretend as though I'm somehow the actual reason for this thread, please feel free to relieve yourself from my Facebook, as generally I only have people on there that I myself trust and know as real to some extent, and who know me, and apparently it doesn't work for you.  A very small handful of strictly forum people are the only individuals there who I have not known in some way in real life, and there you see much more than here.  It may be stuff that doesn't mean much to you, but means a great deal to me (like my family).  

But, other than the fact that I used my actual name for awhile as my forum account name, it's been just m1469 for years, and for people who are starting to know me fairly well (like my teachers), I think that mostly it is obvious that what I type here is generally a reflection of exactly who I am (though sometimes I'm a bit more silly here, as well as feeling more time to think and reflect on subjects).  But, while you may claim to be a certain age in human years, Birba, I've been here ages longer, being very much myself, and compared to you I'm pretty old in forum years and you're just a little toddler, so respect your elder  .  

[ahinton]

Well, actually, I really don't like that name at all and I will take that as a direct insult, actually.

Absolutely none was intended and I remain puzzled as to why you have done this.

Best,

Alistair

[m1469]

Absolutely none was intended and I remain puzzled as to why you have done this.

Best,

Alistair

While I have generally quite well enjoyed my exchanges with you, I am a bit surprised that somebody who did not even enjoy pianistimo herself calling you "ahinton", which is exactly as your screen-name reads and even (apparently) very much your actual name, would be puzzled by why I don't want my own preferred screen-name thrown together with another entity altogether, and one who did not even like me!  Why would I enjoy that?

So, perhaps you did not intend any insult and if not, I appreciate it, but now it is known, then, and if there really is no intent to insult, it can be easily avoided in this way in the future.