hoaxes

[pianowolfi]

Yeah, I wish I was 12 again, sometimes . But don't worry about turning 13, 13 is still fun. It's not like life will magically turn stupid and boring.  I'm a teen and I still think about my music and piano and my imaginary world... and nature!!! That's why my username is thinkgreenlovepiano  

I like your philosophy

[perfect_pitch]

who's slow?

Slow... is unfortunately a really pathetic user who posts recordings... Attempts to play...

Let me try that again - Slow, is a user who takes a brilliant work of music, and turns it into something resembling Audible Diarrhea. Some of his recordings aren't even in time, and sound so bad - that I'm willing to be a few of the users here as well as myself could sight-read them better than he can play them.

Let's just say - there's a reason his threads get deleted within hours of uploading... It's because they're sh*t... and he won't listen to any advice given, and he dumps on anyone who finds fault with his playing... convulsions on the piano.

[ongaku_oniko]

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you guys.

My playing is probably worse than your sight reading as well. So what? Does that make it right to laugh and swear at me? The poor guy is doing his best and you guys are so... :|

I mean if he's just doing it to poke fun at people who can't play or he's being extremely rude to other users' playing, and then his own isn't that great either, I can understand your frustration, but if his playing i just bad, well, so is mine.

[kelly_kelly]

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you guys.

My playing is probably worse than your sight reading as well. So what? Does that make it right to laugh and swear at me? The poor guy is doing his best and you guys are so... :|

I mean if he's just doing it to poke fun at people who can't play or he's being extremely rude to other users' playing, and then his own isn't that great either, I can understand your frustration, but if his playing i just bad, well, so is mine.

The point is that if you listen to his recordings, he really isn't trying his best. There are curious moments of fluency which hint that he might actually be capable of playing well, but he doesn't. And he posts huge quantities of difficult repertoire - anyone who was actually trying to learn would presumably try to focus on something, but he declares his weak-in-every-respect recordings to be "concert standard" and then ignores other users when they give criticism.

[perfect_pitch]

My playing is probably worse than your sight reading as well. So what? Does that make it right to laugh and swear at me? The poor guy is doing his best and you guys are so... :|

There's a difference - I don't post/b**ch/slander other musicians...

You come to this forum to learn, to talk, to discuss and we are very welcome to have you on this forum. You contribute to other threads and share your knowledge as do others. You are far more valuable to this forum than slow_concert_pianist.

The ONLY person I usually only will ever insult is slow_concert_pianist... simply because the only reason he posts is to post his shoddy recordings... and then to slander, insult and swear at those who only try to offer any advice.

He's kind of like a piano leper... nobody wants to have anything to do with him, and his ego is so massive that he thinks he's a brilliant player.

Let me demonstrate. This is a link to a recording he posted a few weeks back. Have a listen to it:

Chopin - Ballade No. 1 in g minor: https://www.box.net/shared/kamto7ulvm

NOW... Although you may not be able to play pieces at this difficulty (I don't know - I haven't seen anything in the audition room by you)... ask yourself this.

Would you be happy posting a performance of any piece, in such a disfunctional, and sloppy manner as the Chopin ballade above???

Believe me - After looking at some of the posts you write ongaku... You seem like a very respectable person, and your posts do have some good insight and relevant information. I would never make fun of you - you seem to have a lot of offer this piano site.

[ongaku_oniko]

hmm... honestly it's better than me lol.

Thanks for your compliments, I really do hope that I can give back a little to this community, as I've learned a lot from it. Often times I wonder if my posts are too childish, seen as spam or simply offensive. It's good to know that at least one person thinks that some of my posts aren't too bad.

I guess I'll take your guys' word for this. If everyone doesn't like him, then I guess he does have problems.

[Bob]

I thought slow pianist was just posting recordings of himself sight-reading.

[ramseytheii]

I thought slow pianist was just posting recordings of himself sight-reading.

Oh, I thought he had access to Joyce Hatto's unreleased archives...

Walter Ramsey

[omar_roy]

Uhhh, what is going on?  I don't read the forums for one day and all of a sudden a bunch of people are exposed as fakes?!

[oxy60]

boy... were you ripped off if you thought you had to pay to have access to this forum XD

No, I didn't join for the forum. I needed access to the sheet music. It turns out that my membership more than pays for itself with that access. The great advantage is being able to get just the piece I want, without needing to buy a whole book. Also music stores that have this level of selection in sheet music are VERY hard to find.

As far as a free forum is concerned, we should expect a certain number of fakers, hoaxes and aggressive posters. Now I understand why there are so few serious discussions about music.

[ongaku_oniko]

Yeah, it would be kind of stupid to just pay for a forum.

But I think there is quite a bit of serious discussion going on here (for a free forum)

I was pleasantly surprised, anyway.

[thinkgreenlovepiano]

No, I didn't join for the forum. I needed access to the sheet music. It turns out that my membership more than pays for itself with that access. The great advantage is being able to get just the piece I want, without needing to buy a whole book. Also music stores that have this level of selection in sheet music are VERY hard to find.

As far as a free forum is concerned, we should expect a certain number of fakers, hoaxes and aggressive posters. Now I understand why there are so few serious discussions about music.

I think having to access to sheet music is nice, but I'm horrible at handling sheet music. All my sheet music gets crumpled or lost. So I usually just buy books
And I think we have some pretty serious discussions, sometimes This is probably my favourite piano forum. It's not dead and people actually post stuff, but I don't feel lost under all the spam/ posts that don't relate to me.

I like your philosophy

[scottmcc]

lostinidlewonder, you say there have been other similar hoaxes in the past--care to elaborate any names?  I'm curious.

[Bob]

Vladimir and the girl with tb.

[pianowolfi]

Vladimir and the girl with tb.

Pocorina was that "girl with tb" and Vladimir Dounin, if I remember correctly, was the other guy. He always used to attack Marik.
perhaps they're one and the same. And, oh yeah, there was even a "girl" named ingagroznaya.

But perhaps all these have been one and the same person. Or perhaps a sort of Mafia?  

But anyway, the most legendary of all was

*drumrolllllllllll*

Tim Hofman!!!!   (Well he was actually more like an advertisement attempt. Please don't ask me for a link, I won't do it. No way .)

[Bob]

I will... 




[Come up with your own line here.  There are just too many to display all of them here. ]


https://timhofman.com/

Strange... The "Piano Forum" link on his website doesn't seem to be working. 


Topic: I just released my new website - www.TimHofman.com
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=17118.0

*A tiny voice in Bob's brain still screams, "Wiiiiiiig!   Wiiiiiiiig!   It'sa-wig-it'sa-wig-it'sa-wig...."*


...
My abs are going to start hurting soon.

I found his myspace page.  Only Tom Anderson is his friend. 

Love this quote from the thread here.
"what the hell is that thats not fantasie impromptu thats like someone vomited on a copy of fantasie impromptu and then gave it to him to play..."

[ramseytheii]

Pocorina was that "girl with tb" and Vladimir Dounin, if I remember correctly, was the other guy. He always used to attack Marik.
perhaps they're one and the same. And, oh yeah, there was even a "girl" named ingagroznaya.

But I don;t think V Dounin was a fraud, I think he was a real person?

Walter Ramsey

[richard black]

Coming back after all of four days away and I find this. Well, fair enough, it's not quite on the scale of tsunami and nuclear upsets in Japan, but I feel like raising an eyebrow a bit. What on earth kind of motivation/pleasure does anyone find in 'creating' Becky? It had crossed my mind to wonder if she was lying about her age by perhaps a couple of years (there's plenty of form for child prodigies doing that) but I know some might impressive pre-teens and she would only be a couple of steps ahead of them. And a lot of what she wrote made sense.

Not even sure I was much aware of the other folks who I gather have been exposed as fakes.

[fleetfingers]

I've been thinking about this hoax thing. It all happened so fast. If I remember correctly, LP was not happy with the allegations being set forth in her La Campanella thread, so she removed the recording, said good-bye and was gone. That was weird...if someone thought I was a hoax, I would laugh and ask where that idea came from. Because I am real. If LP were real, why would she be so offended as to leave the forum all of a sudden? And erase all of her recordings?

Shortly after LP left, the youtube video which matched Becky's recording was posted. That's when we all knew for sure she wasn't real - or at least her recording. Did we all just assume that the theory of Becky-LP-Roger being one person was true? Did I miss something that confirmed it?

Who erased Becky's recordings and Roger's Pathetique? Was it them or the ones in charge? Are they not posting anymore because they're suspended or because the story is true and they left? Actually, I wonder if he/she is still here - either lurking as a guest or logged in under yet another screen name.

Has anyone else noticed that Roger's Bach Inventions are still there? What do you make of those?

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=40088.msg446581#msg446581

[birba]

My feelings exactly.  I've just posted in another thread an invitation to roger1948 to make himself heard again.  Maybe this person is so embarassed or hurt that he-she was found out and is just lurking here seeing what we're saying about them.  I think they're the same person because they all left at the same time.  I, myself, would have kept one of the aliases and commented on the scandal that Becky caused.  No?

[lostinidlewonder]

Thinking back on the past hoaxes makes me laugh I am sure this thread will be reposted in as more hoaxes pop up in the future!

Why do people post hoaxes? I think it is because they cannot get people to respond to them when they post ideas on musical issues so they need to get responses by creating either an elaborate hoax or by being aggressive in their comments. Some people have an online persona which is fishing for comments more so than other, it is to feed the need to be responded to, I guess everyone needs to feel that they are being listened to

There is also the other side to it, where they are laughing at you and are so impressed with themselves that they managed to fool you, hahahahah! I wonder what they win though..... there's no prize which is the sad part.

If you look into what they actually post then you may be interested to see that they have really nothing special to offer. Recordings are interesting but they don't really teach us anything special, it is how the poster can reveal their methodology of studying music that may reveal to you some educational content. You will find all the hoaxers are unable to be very specific in their knowledge, always talk in general terms, never elaborate on issues or provide detailed analysis of their playing or someone else. Just read what they write dont get so impressed by the show and be wary of the smokes and mirrors they put up.

Here's a general response that might seem intelligent but is not really saying much:

"Such delightful music. I would like to know what xxx is thinking as he plays this? what is his vision of this song?  does he know anything about the composer? I am so interested in xxx the artist. When you present a piece tell us something, give it context.

from one artistic pianist to another "

So if we think about the composer, have visions of the "song!!!!" it will help give the piece more context since you will be able to tell us "something". Gosh, very helpful! Also who calls themselves an artistic pianist? It seems quite pompous.

To me this seems very obvious but to those where English is not their 1st language it might be a little more difficult. Nevertheless it is good to see that the moderators are working in the background, or enough people complained about these fraudsters

[ted]

The desire to deceive artistically, as opposed to simply swindling for personal gain, is certainly a peculiar trait. Personally, I have known only one case, that of a man I worked with many years ago. His whole life was a fantasy. He went on tour with famous people, whom he counted as friends, used to be a concert pianist, used to be an executive of an international company, used to have his own orchestra, used to do this that and the other. For some reason he insisted he attended my school and was "nearly" dux, even though I had never set eyes on him. He used to make purchases he could ill afford and tell people he was buying a present for some dignitary (he was also in the secret service).

If he was caught out, which of course was pretty easy to do, he assumed an air of hurtful indignation, and never conceded a thing.

The classic case of this psychology has to have been a New Zealander called Murray Beresford Roberts.

https://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/5r18/1

His deceptions were in a class of their own. He impersonated nuclear physicists, doctors, surgeons, judges and politicians.  He wrote his autobiography in a book called "King of Con Men", which is highly entertaining but very sad.

I suspect our friends on the forum have a considerably milder strain of the same disorder.

[nilsjohan]

Did we all just assume that the theory of Becky-LP-Roger being one person was true? Did I miss something that confirmed it?

The three accounts for Becky, LP and Roger were all created by the same person.

Who erased Becky's recordings and Roger's Pathetique? Was it them or the ones in charge? Are they not posting anymore because they're suspended or because the story is true and they left?

All recordings (except for Roger's Bach Inventions) were removed by Becky/LP/Roger and the remaining topics were then deleted by the forum administration. The three accounts are now suspended.

[Bob]

Aw.  Leave the threads up.  There was still good information on them from people.  I thought that Becky thread about "knowing more than a teacher" was interesting.

[Bob]

 

It's going to get tougher to tell what's a hoax...

https://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110323/hl_nm/us_tuberculosis_who_1

[rachfan]

The multiple hoaxes of Becky, Roger and Piano Lady, all created by one and the same person, were quite amazing actually.  Some of what these characters had to say was somewhat plausible, causing some of us to waste our time responding to them.  Their piano playing at times raised suspicions--that is to say, a 77year old lady playing a faultless Liszt "Campanella", Becky learning the Tchaikovsky first Concerto on two weeks notice for public performance, and Roger rattling off the "Pathetique" as a low-intermediate student, which sounded quite mechanical almost like a midi file, although the playing of many adult beginners and low-intermediates is not exactly expressive.  But did you notice the clever vulnerabilities that went into their "cover" stories?  How many of us here would hassle a charming old lady, a 12-year old girl prodigy, or a patriotic retired marine who made a career of serving his country? All of that was quite clever in my opinion.  

As for motivation, I'm reminded of the author James Thurber who created his famous character "Walter Mitty" who constantly lived his life in various fantasies.  I believe that the hoaxster here in this case was living his life vicariously at Piano Street as just another Walter Mitty. It's maddening, but also very sad.  I'm glad he/she was discovered and ejected from the website.

David

[m1469]

I's thinkin' that they all was fixin' and waitin' and s'pposed to gets found out  .  They was simplay leavin' clues like they meant 'em, ever last one of 'em.  I'm not fooled by the double, triple, quadruple ... infiniteLy layered hoax.  Whatev's.  Hopefully it's fulfilling.  

[ongaku_oniko]

They would make good company managers.

They know so well when to take the risk. For example, Becky's heroic polonaise... I mean that mistake there at 2:37 (yes, I remembered the time... or was it 2:57? :S I'm pretty sure 2:37)

was so noticeable that any amateur would be able to immediately realize that Becky was a fake if they heard this version on youtube. It was a big risk, but they knew it was worth it...

mistakes like those really made me convinced that she was real.

[Bob]

Would they have time to analyze a recording like that though?  Three personalities?  They probably just grabbed whatever they found and posted it up on here.

[ongaku_oniko]

if that's a response to my post, well becky was the one going on and on about 2:37, which is why I still remember it.

[Bob]

Ah, ok.  It sounds like a lot of work to make and maintain three profiles.  I would think they would have something better to do, like practice themself.

[thinkgreenlovepiano]

Maybe they pre-typed up generic posts over the summer vacation... and had it all planned in advance. So everything was just copy and paste and quick 2 second editing.

     

[Bob]

That's possible.  Haha.  Still a lot of work.  And they were apparently a little sloppy with their work.

I'm still wondering why someone would go to all that trouble.  Maybe they liked controlling people, got off on decieving people, just being mischevious, etc.  It must have filled some kind of need.

All their personalities were different though.  I wonder if that means anything.  Young girl, older lady, middle aged guy?  Maybe it represents part of them or something about what they want -- to be a prodigy, to be fulfilled in old age... I'm not sure what the middle aged guy would represent.  Strength?

Someone who's good at making things up and writing a lot.

The copyright thing really makes me wonder.  I'm pretty sure that was illegal.  And now I'm wondering about the military thing.  That would piss off some veterans for sure.

I was also thinking.... Who would pick a young girl and an older lady to make up?  A guy?  I'd probably stick to my own gender.  I'm wondering if the hoaxster is female.

[thinkgreenlovepiano]

Or maybe they just had an overactive imagination!
And creating these characters is like making up characters in a story. A lot of people enjoy doing that, right?
They can try out all those very different personalities, when they don't really have them...

Roger= old-aged prodigy? It's never too late to learn? There's a quote from this Greek poet about how learning is a lifelong process... I know the quote in Chinese o.o, not sure what the quote is in English though...

Yes, I think it's probably illegal. Maybe they justified it in their minds like this: Since the plagarizing characters do not really exist, no crime has really been committed.   Not very logical, of course.

About the genders, maybe it helped them make the characters sound more different from each other? 3 females that speak in the same way= too suspicious?

I think the hoaxer should be female... since 2/3 posters were female. It's already enough work to create 3 accounts... but to pretend to be another gender...
Well I know I could never do it! You'd be able to tell I was faking right away!

But who  knows.? I don't really care about this issue anymore, but the human mind in general is very interesting to me. (:

[m1469]

Why don't all ya'll just bring them back already?  They are here, anyway .

[birba]

I think we should take Ladypianist's final words as the mystery person's true wish.  She wished us all the best in all our endeavors and said good-bye, she wasn't going to be part of this anymore.

[furtwaengler]

Wow, I missed all of this! There is life outside the internet, you know...but it's still fun.

[birba]

I know.  It's frightening.  I DO have a life outside of internet - and a very satisfying one at that - but I remember when the phantom ladypianist was around and Becky was posting all that music, I actually thought of them when I wasn't at the computer!!!  OMG!

[pianowolfi]

Why don't all ya'll just bring them back already?  They are here, anyway .

Help!  

*Thinks of seriously studying psychology*
*ponders if there is already a particular branch "internet psychology"*

*creeps back into RL*

[Bob]

I think I know who it is.

[birba]

Me?

[ongaku_oniko]

By the way, has anyone seen bustthewave?

Right after the "becky incident" he asked me for my email saying that in case everyone leaves pianostreet, he'll have contact with a few people and still discuss about music..

well I told him that pianostreet won't die, but I did give him my email :S

I hope he's not using it for some bad purpose

[littletune]

I think I know who it is.

Oh Bob, I think I know it since a REALLY long time ago!!!     

[ongaku_oniko]

I'm paranoid. When I see people saying that, I can't help but think that everyone is targetting me.

So please, if you know who it is, name the person. And we can have nils confirm if they have the same IP address, or a similar one in case they have another network.

[littletune]

Me?

I'm paranoid. When I see people saying that, I can't help but think that everyone is targetting me.

So please, if you know who it is, name the person. And we can have nils confirm if they have the same IP address, or a similar one in case they have another network.

Oh you think people think it's you? No don't worry. I don't think it's you. And I don't think it's Birba either.
And no we shouldn't say who it is even if we think we know it! I mean maybe you could say it if you were 100 percent sure, but not if you're like 99,99999! And you can almost never be 100 percent sure anyway so that's why you shouldn't say it!  And it's a secret anyway. I think if you figure it out for yourself then you're supposed to know it and if you don't then you're not supposed to know it anyway     

[ongaku_oniko]

GAAHHHHH I don't want to waste hours analyzing who it is right before exams!!! TELL MEE :@ :@ :@




At least tell me if this person is still on the forums right now?

[pianisten1989]

Mmhm... I also think I know who it is... But I wont tell

No, sorry, I have no idea. Just a slight, but with no real evidence.

[littletune]

GAAHHHHH I don't want to waste hours analyzing who it is right before exams!!! TELL MEE :@ :@ :@




At least tell me if this person is still on the forums right now?

Well but don't worry it's not that important and I only THINK I know it... I don't REALLY know it   Why would you like to know it so much? So you could be angry at them? Cause if that's why you wanna know it then that is why you don't know it   Now I'm confusing myself! I don't even know what I'm saying  

Now I'm talking so funny about this people will start thinking it was me   although I don't really think anyone would think it was me cause those people were too smart to be me   or I'm not smart enough to be them   something like that  
Oh and I was also thinking about something. I would really like to know if the people who are so angry about all this now could ever forgive the person who did this. Like what if someone would now admit they did it and apologized and explained why they did it and all that. Could the people who are so angry about it forgive that person and accept them again at Pianostreet, or they could never forgive them and wouldn't wanna have anything to do with them anymore?
Oh well I still think they were all real in some way anyway... no I know they were!  

[m1469]

Even if the person isn't actually here anymore, others talk about them enough and give them enough attention to still have them present enough.  Now, who would want to do that? 

[emill]

well ....  ladypianist and beck8898 electrified the forum.....
when they posted... people flocked (that included me)
They were generally nice and it was fun while it lasted.
It would have been more worthwhile though if they were
real.