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Topic: Liszt Sonetto 104 del Petrarca  (Read 7024 times)

Offline kelly_kelly

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Liszt Sonetto 104 del Petrarca
on: March 18, 2011, 01:59:28 AM
Not to be confused with Sonetto 123, which I also posted recently :P This is in a VERY early stage of learning (by my standards) - about two weeks of work scattered over the past two months of extremely sporadic practice. My teacher passed on all the notes in her score (fingerings, etc.) but she hasn't heard me play it. It's at about the point where a first lesson would be appropriate, but unfortunately I don't know when that will be possible, so I am turning to Pianostreet. There are some obvious technical issues (the cadenzas are...  :-X) and there are some issues with chord rolling... especially the first few measures... and really I don't know what I'm doing yet... but I thought it might be better to be set on the right track from an early stage than appall my teacher whenever I manage to see her?
It all happens on Discworld, where greed and ignorance influence human behavior... and perfectly ordinary people occasionally act like raving idiots.

A world, in short, totally unlike our own.
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Offline rachfan

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Re: Liszt Sonetto 104 del Petrarca
Reply #1 on: March 18, 2011, 02:50:59 PM
Hi kelly,

I think you're definitely on the right track here, and you have a high potential to bring this piece off really well.  Right now though, it's still very much "in the rough".  For that reason I'm going to hold off on any suggestions, as it would be hard to tell what you already actually know.  So I think it would be better to wait for your more refined rendition.  Then I could more easily zero in on a few details that might be far more useful to you by then.  Keep on practicing!  This piece is progressing very well considering the short time you've put into it so far.
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline emill

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Re: Liszt Sonetto 104 del Petrarca
Reply #2 on: March 18, 2011, 05:17:37 PM
Hi Kelly,

First time I heard this piece .... nice clear touch and tones.
Yes, as rachfan says your on your way ... keep on
practicing.
member on behalf of my son, Lorenzo

Offline kelly_kelly

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Re: Liszt Sonetto 104 del Petrarca
Reply #3 on: March 18, 2011, 05:43:56 PM
rachfan: You are absolutely right. I should have waited a bit longer... but I'm not sure when I will next have access to recording equipment. At any rate, I made the recording mostly for learning purposes, so I thought I might as well share :)

emill: I'm glad to have introduced you to this piece - if you want to listen to an excellent interpretation, andhow04 posted one recently (I think it might be on the second page of this board), and of course the greats (Bolet, Arrau, etc.). I think this is one of the pieces where Liszt the composer, rather than Liszt the virtuoso, really shines.
It all happens on Discworld, where greed and ignorance influence human behavior... and perfectly ordinary people occasionally act like raving idiots.

A world, in short, totally unlike our own.

Offline birba

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Re: Liszt Sonetto 104 del Petrarca
Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 11:33:13 AM


Offline kelly_kelly

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Re: Liszt Sonetto 104 del Petrarca
Reply #5 on: March 20, 2011, 07:24:38 PM
birba - Thank you so much! I'm honored to be worthy of a teaching video from you! You could make a business of this ;D Do you have any "real" students?

You make a lot of very good points as always, especially about the rolled chords, which I knew weren't quite right, and also about the introduction (before the melody) and the beginning of the last page. One of my problems with the introduction is that I can't reach the tenths, so I have to do some rolls/redistribution and it doesn't sit very well yet... but I'm working on it :) And I really like the idea of the statement at the beginning of the last page being a statement of the last line ("in questo stato son, Donna, per Voi") - as you say, it's a change from the pattern of contrasting episodes and I wasn't quite sure what to do with it musically... Again, thank you so much! Hopefully I will post an updated version in a few weeks time :)
It all happens on Discworld, where greed and ignorance influence human behavior... and perfectly ordinary people occasionally act like raving idiots.

A world, in short, totally unlike our own.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Liszt Sonetto 104 del Petrarca
Reply #6 on: March 21, 2011, 12:15:02 AM
Hi kelly,

I too just watched birba's master class here and I think it was wonderful!  He brings out so many insights about playing this piece.  I'm still going to hold off addressing much detail until you submit your more polished rendition.  But here are a few things in general that will complement birba's thoughts.

This piece was originally in song format for tenor voice.  So what we see here is Liszt's own piano transcription (obviously with much embellishment).  Thus, as we play this poem wrapped in lush melody, we need to think of the bel canto--a tender and pure style of singing.  So yes, sing the melody in your mind as you play!  There is much sentiment and emotion here, and you as the pianist have to create all of that sometimes serene and other times roiling atmosphere for the listener.

Birba emphasized the thesis-antithesis always present in this music--ever contrasting moods.  On the last page, in that spirit, in the top line, there is at the forte a very strong declaratory statement made there, almost as if to say to his Love in a nonchalant, matter-of-fact, and even flippant way, "It's over!"  But by the third measure in that same line, he resumes his speech with far less resolve, as she is once again melting his heart, and he is once more gripped by nostalgia.  That's my own interpretation there.  The emotions can change here in the turn of a single phrase!
 
Birba made a very interesting point on page 2 in the bottom line short cadenza there as how to conceptualize it as a whole.  Sometimes as a practicing technique it's helpful to regroup the notation. So to do this, thinking of the RH, you can practice in groups of 4 notes, but starting on a different note each time, thereby always creating different foursomes each time you progress up the cadenza.  So, for example, in the RH instead of beginning on the F## as written, start on the next E instead, that new group being E, B, A#, and F#.  Next time, start it on the B and regrouping into fours.  Same principle for the LH. Another practice method would be to transpose the figuration up a half tone.  This technique of regrouping, and also transposition, work the playing apparatus in slightly different ways each time, which improves facility and proficiency, making the cadenza seem easier and more manageable.

David

Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.
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