Kawai KG 2

[mrned23]

I have come across a 1975 5'10" Kawai KG2, is it a good piano?  It is in excellent condition, they are asking $8,495.

[jimbo320]

That seems a bit high priced for thew age to me but it's a very good sounding piano.
You'd be better off contacting a guy named Dave on this forum for a better answer.
Here's his website.....https://www.silverwoodpianos.com/

Musically, Jimbo

[quantum]

They used to have KG's at the university.  I was quite fond of them. 

[cmrva]

I have come across a 1975 5'10" Kawai KG2, is it a good piano?  It is in excellent condition, they are asking $8,495.

Pretty high, I just played one yesterday that was about 10 years newer (Younger?) For $9,950. That was the price on the model, I'll bet I could have negotiated at least $500-$1k down in this economy. Remember that piano stores are eager to sell pianos right now, regardless of what anyone tells you. I was surprised and pleased in the feel and sound, as I have always thought of Kawai as a maker of digital pianos (I remember them from my rock and roll keyboard playing days) and not as a serious acoustic. There is some controversy these days regarding their use of ABS plastic (Millenium action they call it) instead of wood in their action, not sure if they used that in 1975.

Question- Is this a store or private seller? I ask because you will get good advice on this forum to spend a few hundred to get a tech involved in determining if there are issues that you can't detect that will pop up after you purchase. A store may give you a 1-2 year warranty, which may give you peace of mind. Just know a store will usually make about 30% or more on the sale, which is fine, especially if you get free delivery, a tuning or two and a warranty.

[silverwoodpianos]

You'd be better off contacting a guy named Dave on this forum for a better answer.
Here's his website.....https://www.silverwoodpianos.com/
Musically, Jimbo

Well, after reading this posting I had to turn around to see who Dave was……but couldn’t find him anywhere in my shop anyways…..ah Jimbo…..

Ok serious now, I have no idea where  the OP is located, but here in this area for a 40 yr old Asian grand piano that is too much money.……...

The KG-2 was a good solid early model of Kawai; I still have a couple of them in some of the  churches out this way, the hammer sets are aging rapidly, most of them have been emptied by now, the wire is damaged from oxidation along with the center core of the bass string sets.

A Kawai KG-2 from that era will need string, pins, under felt, along with a new hammer set action restoration and regulation. And this is coming sooner rather than later. There, from my shop we just spent 8K……remember I can’t see, or inspect the instrument, in this format.

 As mentioned previously, the smartest money you could spend is to have this appraised by a local technician of your choice for present mechanical condition, and then local market value.

Typically the early Asian grand’s have a life span of 50 years. For something like this in Vancouver you would be lucky to sell for less than half of the asking price; more likely in the $2500.00-$3500.00 range.

Difficult market here in Vancouver that is brutal on used musical instruments.

[cmrva]

Agree with the above, I am looking myself, ran acoss a beautiful 5'10" Kawai that is 10 yrs old in a store for $10k. I'd pass on this or go way low on an offer. What I'm running into is I really like satin finishes and my wife absolutely hates gloss finishes, and it seems it is 10-1 glossy in my searches.

My edit- I erred on the age of the one I looked at for $10k. It was a 1988 at $10k, so a 1975 may be near $8k

[keys60]

I played a 1985 for $7,700 at a Long Island showroom. Sounded nice. The action felt too light and had a little too much lost motion. I do like Kawai though.

[cmrva]

I played a 1985 for $7,700 at a Long Island showroom. Sounded nice. The action felt too light and had a little too much lost motion. I do like Kawai though.

Going from my 3 week reasearch on various sites like this:
So far in the "Lexus" group of pianos, besides Bechstein, pre-Gibson Baldwin, etc- everyone on this forum raves about Yamaha and Kawai. I get it that Yamaha dominates the market unit sales wise, but I can't get my head around why I'm not exstatic about the Yamaha sound/feel in smaller versions and I can't get more than about 6 feet in my house. I think what I have noticed is C3 is where the pro's on this forum believe "The real Yamaha sound" is- correct? I like bright, and I love bass, and C5 is where I'm noticing real bass tones. How about Kawai? I think in 5'8" it felt like it had more bottom end than Yamahas around that size.
G vs C seems to be a lot of marketing hype (I'm in sales and marketing and understand a $100 cost on a feature may be $1,000 to consumer when new) But I see where G2 is put down as inferior, but C2 is not. Same for Kawai? It's between those two brands or an 80's refurbished Baldwin "R" at similar prices. The Balwin has a couple of dings I can live with the others are pristine.

Wasn't trying to highjack this thread, got started when last poster said the action of a 1985 Kawai felt "challenged" (My word not his). Can they really get played up/out that badly in 25 years? I'm probably too much of an amateur to notice that.

[ongaku_oniko]

Well, after reading this posting I had to turn around to see who Dave was……but couldn’t find him anywhere in my shop anyways…..ah Jimbo…..

Ok serious now, I have no idea where  the OP is located, but here in this area for a 40 yr old Asian grand piano that is too much money.……...

The KG-2 was a good solid early model of Kawai; I still have a couple of them in some of the  churches out this way, the hammer sets are aging rapidly, most of them have been emptied by now, the wire is damaged from oxidation along with the center core of the bass string sets.

A Kawai KG-2 from that era will need string, pins, under felt, along with a new hammer set action restoration and regulation. And this is coming sooner rather than later. There, from my shop we just spent 8K……remember I can’t see, or inspect the instrument, in this format.

 As mentioned previously, the smartest money you could spend is to have this appraised by a local technician of your choice for present mechanical condition, and then local market value.

Typically the early Asian grand’s have a life span of 50 years. For something like this in Vancouver you would be lucky to sell for less than half of the asking price; more likely in the $2500.00-$3500.00 range.

Difficult market here in Vancouver that is brutal on used musical instruments.

really?

back in 2005 when I was buying pianos in vancouver, 3000 was a good price for an UPRIGHT yamaha... that's like 40-50 years...

did the price drop that much, or was I looking in the wrong places?

I ended up buying a 46' petrof 7 years for 2.7k I think. Was i ripped off?

[keys60]

I'm not really an Asian piano freak. I like them. They are ok.  I like the older American and Germans better, but tastes vary. Also, from 1985 till now, the Asian have made some major strides in instrument making. They are producing some excellent pianos and viol type instruments now.
There's still the fair amount of junk out there, but the improvements in manufacturing over the past decade are phenomenal.

As for a 1985 pianos action being played out. Well.......yea. It can be. That doesn't mean worn out, it means it needs a regulation. And sure, in 25 years, a lot can happen. Some pianos get played a few hours per week, some a few hours per day, some 8 hours per day. Depends on its use, its care and its environment.
My Charles Walter is almost due for a regulation and its only 6 years old. It gets played about 15 hours per week. Its a well constructed American made piano.

The Kawai KG I played was at a Steinway showroom and sold as is. Please note, this piano showroom is actually owned by Steinway and the Kawai was probably a trade in. You think their going to restore this piano when they have about 40 of their own new and pre owned to sell?

The manager of this show room said they have to sell one piano per month to pay the rent. They have trouble doing that. This place actually is a new location downsized from a huge showroom on Long Island. 3 pianos in a month and they feel they are in the chips. The piano market is in the toilet.

So anyway, yes, this particular Kawai needed a regulation. Key bushings felt worn, lost motion, key dip was off.

Oh. And I never used the word "challenged", but that's ok.

[cmrva]

I played a 1985 for $7,700 at a Long Island showroom. Sounded nice. The action felt too light and had a little too much lost motion. I do like Kawai though.

My use of the word challenged instead of "lost motion". 

[jimbo320]

Kawais are is nice as long as you adjust them....

[silverwoodpianos]

really?
Back in 2005 when I was buying pianos in Vancouver, 3000 was a good price for an UPRIGHT Yamaha... that's like 40-50 years...
Did the price drop that much, or was I looking in the wrong places?
I ended up buying 46’ Petrof 7 years for 2.7k I think. Was I ripped off?

Well, no you did not get cheated on your piano. The Petrof you purchased is an upright that is less than 10 years old. A Petrof is a good machine.

The Kawai we are discussing here on this thread is 36 years old and is a grand piano. One cannot compare an apple to an orange with much success, although they are both classified as a food and vitamin source.

 If you were looking at 40-50 yr old Yamaha’s for that price most likely you were looking at used pianos at a dealership here. Yes the market for used good has changed dramatically in the last 5 years here. But this was to be expected with the influx of new, much-improved, Chinese instruments at competitive prices.

See the problem here is this; any piano less than 6ft will  have a maximum retail value here of  10-12K. Now to restring and re-hammer with all of the peripheral work involved, usually this tops out at 8-9K.

This leaves any grand piano more than 40 yrs old and in original condition at $2-3000 or less.

The exception of certain brand names notwithstanding.....

[ongaku_oniko]

Thanks for your answer.

I understand what you're saying, I just assumed that grand pianos were supposed to be uber expensive. I mean I didn't see uprights in tom lee and piano stores for 300,000...

most expensive yamaha upright I saw was 20,000.

so I thought if my upright was 2.7k, a grand should at least be 27k.

Are the Chinese pianos really playable? I heard they're really... bad quality. And the ones I have played certainly do sound muddled and unsatisfactory.

[jimbo320]

In my opinion Chinese is better at food than pianos. No offense intended just my opinion.
I lean towards Yamaha myself but for a grand Steinway and is also good. Everybody's taste is different...

Musically, Jimbo

[silverwoodpianos]

Thanks for your answer.
I understand what you're saying; I just assumed that grand pianos were supposed to be uber expensive. I mean I didn't see uprights in tom lee and piano stores for 300,000...
Most expensive Yamaha upright I saw was 20,000.
So I thought if my upright was 2.7k, a grand should at least be 27k.

I don’t know of any uprights that are being sold for 6 figure amounts these days, but I haven’t come across them all.
You are correct; Grand pianos are expensive when they are new. The KG2 in this thread is 36 years old; hardly considered a new grand piano.

Are the Chinese pianos really playable? I heard they're really... bad quality. And the ones I have played certainly do sound muddled and unsatisfactory.

I recently looked at the new 4’ 11” Rittmueller(sp?) from Pearl River.   A very big improvement from what this company started with for quality in the early 90’s.

Nice design by Lothar Thomma, this instrument has a hammer set that is dark and muddy much like the RX-2 series can be from Kawai until  the hammers get played in a bit, then the instrument brightens up quite a bit.

Very competitively priced too; we all collectively have to realize and understand that the Chinese are getting better and better at building pianos; they will eventually become the piano builders of the future as most companies left in the world have a factory  in China now or are selling their technical expertise (read Germany)to the Chinese.

The same resistance to Chinese instruments was witnessed by the influx of the Korean instruments beginning in the early 80’s here and previous to that the Japanese instruments in the late 50’s and early 60’s.

The first Asian piano builders didn’t get a lot of things correct; but later on they certainly did. One only has to look at the results of what happened; the demise of domestic and European piano factories.

In reality it is not important what people’s opinions of pianos are; simply look at what has happened to the industry. Facts don’t cover the truth…. look at what is happening…..

[ongaku_oniko]

It's great having an informed person explain these things. Perhaps I should get an old grand instead


Do grand pianos deteriorate a lot faster than uprights? why do they lose value so quickly? Do 30ish year old grands HAVE to be replaced? I mean the strings and hammers and stuff.

btw, I find that your website is a little... not-so-pleasing to the eye. The piano keys are too big, IMO.

I don't have photoshop, so I couldn't make a more complicated version, but this is sort of what I think would be the right ratio between the piano keys and the info part:

https://img22.imageshack.us/i/piano1t.jpg/

And the links on the bottom should be bigger, since the blue on the brownish yellow isn't exactly easy to look at.

Just a lil' suggestion.

[keys60]

The Chines are in this market to stay. The past decade has shown huge improvements in all musical instruments. Many are studying in Cremona and building excellent stringed instruments. The Germans and Americans are setting up shop there. Under their guidance, and a 400 dollar per month wage for the workers, we can now purchase very good instruments for less $. They are major competitors and its not just because they are cheap. Our noses can now breath the air down here.

[ongaku_oniko]

Just in case you misunderstand, I live in Vancouver, which means I am Chinese myself

It's great that Chinese companies are producing higher quality goods. I don't mind if people think they're too cheap or too expensive, but it really hits the nerve and makes me feel sad when people tell me how Chinese products are of low quality.