New member and sustain pedal

[syvelocin]

I'm a new member and self-taught pianist. I guess I'm alright you know, I'm not a beginner but I'm not amazing. Though I don't do classical (I did learn the first movement of Moonlight Sonata ages ago though, but other than that, I'm interested in contemporary piano) I'm a fast learner and I have some musical experience already (I play ocarina and I do theatre, so I came into piano with basic music theory mastered, already able to read sheet music). The creative things come easily to me.

I guess what I want to ask is two things. First, I want to discuss the instrument I'm playing on. Well, I learned on a lovely grand piano my grandfather has. However, since I don't have much money to spare, I couldn't afford anything good of my own. I mean, I'm playing on a cheap Yamaha keyboard. I like it, but I hate it just the same. I fail miserably when I attempt playing on anything else, because my cheap keyboard of course doesn't have weighted keys. But for the future, what would be my best option with a proportional price and quality? A cheap electric or digital piano, or just a nicer keyboard with weighted keys?

Second, I have a question about using the sustain pedal. I know how to use it, and I've used it before. But the songs I have used it in, either have the pedal information on the piece or I've been told by others a good pedal technique for the song. I have no clue how to figure that out on my own, and as I'm getting better and I learn pieces faster, well, I go through them a bit faster and I'm facing this issue more and more. What are some things you keep in mind when deciding where to depress the sustain pedal and such?

[ongaku_oniko]

Hi, welcome to the forum!

First of all, I think that a real, accustic piano is the best. Old upright accustics really don't cost that much. I don't know much about instrument pricing, but if you post in the instruments su forum ad give a price range, there are a lot of knowledgable people who can give you good advice.


A previous member called Becky (turns out she was a fake, but that's another story) gave some advice on pedalling. Though she was a fake, the advice she gave still seemed to be good.

Anyway, basically play through the piece without the pedal until you can get it up to speed and with no mistakes. Now, record yourself playing. Where do you think you will need the pedal to add some flavour or legato to your playing? Add some pedal there, and listen again. Did I add too much or too little? And do it like that.

Often times we think we added the pedal effectively but in reality we actually used too much. You don't hear the same things when you're playing and when you're listening. It's a lot easier to catch on to the blurriness for listeners. I had this problem myself. Using too much pedal without realizing it. I was amazed at how blurry my playing sounded when I listened to arecording.

[sucom]

Hi
If you are talking about the sustain pedal which can be plugged into an electric keyboard, it won't work in the same way as the built in sustain pedal on a piano, so it's almost impossible to compare the two, ie. it is impossible to use exactly the same technique on both instruments. A keyboard sustain pedal just doesn't compare.

A cheap digital piano may be slightly weighted but may still have a very light action.  More expensive digitals tend to be more realistic in weight.

Regarding pedalling, use finger legato as much as possible first then consider the sustain pedal after.  Think of the pedal as moving you from A to B (not the notes A to B literally) particularly where it is difficult (impossible) to use finger legato.  The pedal goes down just after the notes that make up one particular chord, and comes up again when you play the notes of a different chord.

To practise this, you could try moving up through the piano keys through root position chords.  For example: Play a root C chord with your right hand, fingers 1, 3 and 5; then press down the sustain pedal, lift your hand while the pedal holds the chord, and then lift the pedal as you play a root position D minor chord.  Continue up through chords, using the pedal to hold the chord as you move your hand.

Listening carefully to ensure you don't blur two chords together will be your greatest helper.

[jimbo320]

Basically you get what you pay for. If you're looking for cheap, you get cheap.
I myself use a Yamaha PSR stacked with a Alesis Micron and a P95 but I'm saving for a CP5. The other keyboardist I play with has a CP5 and I really enjoy playing on it.
There will always be a difference in action from an EP to an acoustic. But you can find some EP's out there that come pretty darn close. The CP5 is one of them but now we're talking about serious money for one.
If you place a value on your technique you'll stay away from cheap....

Musically, Jimbo

[rmbarbosa]

"The more I play the more I am convinced that th pedal is the soul of the piano. There are cases where the peda is everything" - Anton Rubinstein said once. And Teresa Carreno said: "the pianist cannot be careful enough in avoiding the blurring wich can arise from an abuse of the right pedal. It becomes indeed a fatal habit if, from the beginning of his work, he is not exceedingly attentive and critical".
It`s quite impossible, here, in few words, to tell you al about the use of pedals. Many people use them by instinct or only by "ear". Basicaly, there are the full pedal, the half pedal (the half pedal can be "divided" in 4 positions) and there are the primary and the secondary pedal. All this may be and must be used to obtain a good tone. If you wish to know how use the pedals, you may have a look to 2 little books: "Possibilities of tone color by artistic use of pedals" (Teresa Carreno) and "Guide to the proper use of the pianoforte pedals" by Alexander Nikitich Bukhovtsev. I think you may free download both, but I`m not sure.
Best wishes
Rui

[rmbarbosa]

... and we have the tremolo pedal also.