Project 27

[m1469]

That sounds very menacing, as it's supposed to! To me it sounds just right.

Wolfi, I appreciate your feedback because generally, I try to listen for what can be done differently and better, and while I have an idea on that with this etude, there is something about what I am already doing that I already like.  But, I'm still in a place of learning all about it, of course!

I tell you the truth, out of all the Chopin's, I am TERRIFIED of NE no. 3 in D-flat and what it would take to get it right!

I kind of wonder if this is a bait?  At least it's functioning kind of as a bait for me right now, whether you intend it that way, or not!  Honestly, I don't even know what "NE" is!  I mean, I know I could probably find it/them, but so far I don't know.  And, so far, I've got HOARDS, HOARDS, of practicing to do even without taking the bait!  

[m1469]

Okay, I have to revise my goal regarding putting up preliminary recordings of Op. 10 nos. 2 and 8, and Op. 25 no. 9.  My goal is Sunday instead of Friday, but --now actually better knowing what it takes-- I really think I'm going to achieve it!

[pianowolfi]

From my practice session today, slow run-through of op 10 no. 1 and op. 10 no. 2
I think it was a good idea to start recording these on video, I noticed many weird positions and habits, I am currently trying to fix them, but obviously there are still problems and I must keep myself back from speeding because then I tend to cheat a lot

[pianisten1989]

From my practice session today, slow run-through of op 10 no. 1 and op. 10 no. 2
I think it was a good idea to start recording these on video, I noticed many weird positions and habits, I am currently trying to fix them, but obviously there are still problems and I must keep myself back from speeding because then I tend to cheat a lot

I've played that etude (not to perfection, but I could play it kind of evenly in a quite good tempo) and it really helps if you over-do the wrist movements, jsut as exercise. You could also angle your hand a bit more. Chopin wrote a lot like that - turn your hand slightly to the right when you go up, and then go out with your elbow when you're going down...

[pianowolfi]

That's interesting. I had noticed that I angled the right hand way too much, and tried now to bring the wrist more behind the fingers that are just playing, especially the outer fingers 3-4-5, in both etudes. I had been "afraid" of putting weight on these outer fingers, but both etudes emphasize on these fingers, so I thought I need to train them more, so I can more rely on them.

[roxyroo98]

Hey I will learn op 25 no 5! 

[cygnusdei]

Cool, welcome to pianostreet, and to the pianostreet chopet hall of fame!

[m1469]

Okay, I'm making an executive decision in my life on behalf of the rest of my repertoire, and I'm deciding to post the first half of 10/2 today, as I need to move it to a back burner and I need the mental space for other repertoire.  Obviously there is a mountain range of work to be done, but I feel this start is indicative of the work I will be doing in the future to get this piece functioning for me.  This has not been my biggest priority (Op. 10/8 has been), and I have been focusing almost entirely on the chordal skeleton, but today I decided to add the chromatic layer over top and so I am basically just reading through that on the recording and playing by ear with that particular part.  You will notice flaws, of course, tempo variations (though overall it's of course VERY slow), a few wrong notes, and a handful of stalls, but I am deciding to feel OK about my progress with it this week.

Cheers!  And, Wolfi, I'm looking forward to watching your video, yet .

[pianowolfi]

When I first started again to practice op 10 no. 2 a few weeks ago, 5 minutes were actually too much! Now I consider my progress solely in that I am now able to practice it up to one hour a day without damaging my hand But that's part of the process with this etude, the hand needs to adapt to it step by step. So I think you are on a safe path

[m1469]

Yes, Wolfi, do not damage your hand, please!!!  I very much enjoyed watching your video, I'm glad you posted it .

So, I have done the math and even though I've only got a couple of pages to go in terms of preliminary learning stages, and I think I could get through them by Sunday, the new sections after where I am stopping in this clip are *probably* not something I'm going to want to record for here by Sunday, anyway (it would need to be a bit slower even, and the piece at this tempo is SO long  ), so I'm posting just the first 3.5 pages of Op. 10/8 for now.  I may change my mind in a couple of days, but I'm feeling this change of mindset coming on where these pieces now need to just become part of my sea of repertoire that I am studying, and not the foremost pieces on my mind.  I've still got quite a bit to accopmlish with 25/9, but I'm not quite as concerned about that one.  There are issues in my other rep. which are beckoning me and I just must answer the call!

So, here is a very slow portion of 10/8 -- with a few mistakes.

[nyiregyhazi]

From my practice session today, slow run-through of op 10 no. 1 and op. 10 no. 2
I think it was a good idea to start recording these on video, I noticed many weird positions and habits, I am currently trying to fix them, but obviously there are still problems and I must keep myself back from speeding because then I tend to cheat a lot

Personally, I'd recommend much more legato between the thumb and fifth on the way down. Although this is not necessarily possible at speed, it's an excellent way to prepare for the final product when working slower. The thumb needs to get a feel for clinging on as long as possible to maintain stability. I'd work on connecting it literally to the fifth (by dragging the whole arm across with the thumb underneath)- or could feel like a very big hop when you go faster. When you feel a connection from the thumb, there's scarcely any sense that the fifth is leaping anywhere. When the thumb lets go early, it feels like the fifth has to be thrown across a massive distance very quickly, and without anything to stabilise it.

[cygnusdei]

Don't tell him, show him! 

Inviting all lurkers - come join the fun!

[pianowolfi]

@Nyiregyhazy: Good remark, I'll try it out, thank you

[pianowolfi]

@m1469: thank you for posting! I am following every note with great interest
I remember Scherbakov said that Naoumov called this an etude for the left hand. That sorta stayed with me during the years

[m1469]

@m1469: thank you for posting! I am following every note with great interest
I remember Scherbakov said that Naoumov called this an etude for the left hand. That sorta stayed with me during the years

hee hee ... You are ... nice .  I think, maybe, you would like to indicate that my RH is overpowering the melody in the LH  ?  I agree .  I will be working on it with the words you have passed along in mind.  Thanks for listening!  I promise, in the future, every single note won't be as prominent as now, but for a start, I suppose I have a certain thing in mind.  However, of course, I know we don't want to create habits that are difficult to undo!  I think I would like to have known Naoumov ... he was a teacher both of Marik's as well as my University instructor.  It seems he had many, many nice insights .

[pianowolfi]

Hi m1469, no I didn't intend to indicate anything about the balance of your hands I would have said this directly. I feel differently with these recordings of you, it's more like I were standing besides you and just being touched by your playing, and following along as you go further I just wanted to share because I was aware of the background that you describe, at least regarding Marik, because I had read it in one of his posts.

[m1469]

Hi m1469, no I didn't intend to indicate anything about the balance of your hands I would have said this directly. I feel differently with these recordings of you, it's more like I were standing besides you and just being touched by your playing I just wanted to share because I was aware of the background that you describe, at least regarding Marik, because I had read it in one of his posts.

Oh, Okay .  Well, always I have this long list of things that I can hear and otherwise also know I need to be doing better or differently, and especially things that I know others might be listening for, but I'm trying to resist the "temptation" to actually type out that list when I post these things.  Instead I try to just post but that's still difficult  .

But, anyway, thank you for your thoughts and for sharing, and I just want to add that I also knew that Marik had shared this information on the forum and so I felt "free" to mention it again.  

[ongaku_oniko]

Due to unfortunate circumstances, I have to go back to toronto for summer school and thus will not have a piano the whole summer. As a result, I will have to withdraw from this.

I'm sorry for any inconvience, I really would've liked to participate.

[cygnusdei]

Hi ongaku - that's too bad, but it's OK, I bet m1469 will snap your etude in no time

Anyway, here is my "before" version of Op. 25 no. 2. Comments please? My Henle urtext shows the left hand lines as one part polyphony, but I've seen other edition with the bass notes held.

Listening through, it seems like I don't do either way consistently. How would you play it?

[furtwaengler]

That op. 25 no. 2 Sounds great!

I've been wrapping things in my work accompanying. Tomorrow we have the last juries, and then I'll be able to really start on these etudes. I've been looking forward to it, and have gotten in some bits in the mean time. I will be doing op. 10 no. 8 in addition to the others I listed - I tried it out and could not put it down.

[perfect_pitch]

Hi ongaku - that's too bad, but it's OK, I bet m1469 will snap your etude in no time

Anyway, here is my "before" version of Op. 25 no. 2. Comments please? My Henle urtext shows the left hand lines as one part polyphony, but I've seen other edition with the bass notes held.

Listening through, it seems like I don't do either way consistently. How would you play it?

Please cut your fingernails... it's a major distraction from trying to listen to this lovely piece which you did play quite flowingly.

[cygnusdei]

Hey guys thanks for the feedback   I think I have a rough idea what kind of 'sound' I should aim for in this etude - interesting how the da capo bar with all the c's, d♭'s, and b's needs sustaining pedal throughout. I'll make sure to cut my nails shorter next time - but I think it they need to be cut pretty far in to eliminate the clicking noises.

[perfect_pitch]

That or you're curving your fingers a little too much.

[liszt1022]

Are you feeling the triplet 8ths in the right hand?
.|-.|-.|    .|-.|-.|
versus
.|-.|    .|-.|      .|-.|

(I can't tell from the recording)

[m1469]

Okay, yes, I would like to "adopt" the remaining orphan etudes.  However, this is becoming a personal project for me that I am having the chance to live out, and I don't know what I will be able to actually present by June 14th.  I do believe I could find a way to learn/memorize what I adopt, by that point, though.  So, I will make a division in what I aim to do and that might change along the way:

What I aim to present (already on the list):

Op. 10 nos. 2,8
Op. 25 nos. 1,6,9,10,12

What I aim to have learned/memorized:

Op. 10 nos. 9,11
Op. 25 no. 8
NE  no. 3

I'm still exhausted from my big push last week, but I'm also still learning from it and I suspect that what I am capable of has changed a little, too.  I definitely pushed myself to the limits, though, but as I am realizing more from that experience, I think my limits have changed a bit, too, and I also think I can more or less count on my limits changing throughout the course of the next month and a half.

My priorities need to take some shape for me in order to have a kind of strating place -- so, my next more concrete goals are that I have the first group fully memorized and at least at half tempo by Monday, May 16th (so in about a week and a half).  I will loosely plan to have the second group memorized and hopefully up to half tempo by Monday, June 6th.  I'm counting on there being some element involved in this process which I can't currently perceive.

[cygnusdei]

The overriding metre is 2/2 cut time as indicated in the time signature, so the pulse follows triplets in the left hand. If Chopin had intended the pulse to follow the right hand, the time signature would have been 4/4, I think.

One of these days I'm gonna buy me a nice concert grand and hire a sound engineer so he can place the microphones away from my pesky nails!

PS: m1469 - you are the mother of all (orphan) etudes!

[m1469]

PS: m1469 - you are the mother of all (orphan) etudes!

Does this mean that I should be receiving phone calls and flowers and cards and gifts this Sunday, on Mother's Day?  

No, but seriously, I've already got them in my binder, I've done some initial analysis, MonstyMachine is devising a plan, I've done the math and once I get these chisled out, I'm nearing the half-way mark for the entire book, and I'm feeling a whole new world setting in already  .  WOOT!

[liszt1022]

The overriding metre is 2/2 cut time as indicated in the time signature, so the pulse follows triplets in the left hand. If Chopin had intended the pulse to follow the right hand, the time signature would have been 4/4, I think.

One of these days I'm gonna buy me a nice concert grand and hire a sound engineer so he can place the microphones away from my pesky nails!

PS: m1469 - you are the mother of all (orphan) etudes!

If Chopin didn't mean triplets in the right hand, he would not have grouped them in triplets. Godowsky's studies all make a big point out of the triplet feel of the running RH.
It's possible to feel RH triplets just fine, just mash down on the first of every 3 notes until it feels natural. I think it's one of the points of the etude.

[cygnusdei]

But of course Chopin meant the triplets on the right hand. Just as he meant the Presto, the molto legato, and the slurs connecting whole pages into but a few continuous phrases. Just as he meant the triplets on the left hand, and the 2/2 cut time signature.

I'm not too familiar with the Godowsky studies, but hey, let's do Project 53 next year!

[liszt1022]

I'm not too familiar with the Godowsky studies, but hey, let's do Project 53 next year!

Don't get me excited :(
It's possible to do but I don't think there are enough people willing to go crazy.
This used to be 25/11...

[cygnusdei]

Something tells me we shouldn't underestimate MonstyMachine 

[m1469]

Something tells me we shouldn't underestimate MonstyMachine 

[quantum]

Wasn't signed up for this particular one, but I started learning it around the time this thread was posted.  Decided to set a goal so it would get done.  This was programmed as a postlude in church.  

Spring has arrived here, thus the weather is having its effects on the piano's tuning.  Some colorful pitches resulted

[pianowolfi]

Wow, welcome! Unleash da fury  . I am also working on this one...and two others, and just started to learn op.10,5...but so far I officially stick to my three etudes. I am slowly progressing. Problems with speed and accuracy...I need patience. Omm -_-

[m1469]

I'll catch up on listening in this thread soon.  But, for now, I'm glad you've joined, Quantum!

[pianowolfi]

Oh oopsies...nevermind 

@Pianisten 1989: stay here! That's an order!!

 

[m1469]

I just would like to remark that I feel often very similarly and I sometimes badly need to plug my ears and put blinders on. And I think that is your very right and has not necessarily to do with the "ego" but with the occupation. For instance when I am working hard on a composition, trying to find the balance, or even only change two or three notes, I can't listen to other stuff literally for weeks because it tends to interfere with my inner ear and with my conceptions. And my work goes on day and night, in such a way I don't always know consciously of. But I realize that sometimes I must not do this or that, avoid certain things and such.

Well, as you will see I edited that post because I didn't necessarily mean to express that, exactly (I don't care if your quote stays, though).  But, I'm so happy you responded because what you say is so much more closely to how I feel right now.  Even though I'm not working on my own compositions at the moment, this push to get memorized up to half tempo, and recorded, 7 etudes, is a deep work for me.  And, it requires that I become a different person, and it's like I have to go into a cocoon or so, where I listen only in small bits to other musics, for very particular reasons.  Thank you for your thoughts, it reaches me even inside this cocoon .

[pianowolfi]

Oh oopsies again, I have edited too LOL   But now we'll keep it there, do we?
Yeah that's exactly it

[furtwaengler]

My old high school choir teacher put me on the spot yesterday, so I thought I'd try one of them Chopin etudes. It did hurt my head...

(BTW, had I been expecting this, I'd of had the Zoom with me. I had the voice recorder in my pocket again.)

[m1469]

Oh oopsies again, I have edited too LOL   But now we'll keep it there, do we?
Yeah that's exactly it

Oh  .  No biggie.  But, I really liked what you wrote.  Can I keep the quote up? 

[pianowolfi]

Oh  .  No biggie.  But, I really liked what you wrote.  Can I keep the quote up?  

Yes of course

Dave I love this etude, it's on my longterm list. Seems you are on a very good way!

[m1469]

Okay, here is Op. 25 no. 1 update.  From memory, but obviously still a work in progress.  

[floydcramerfan]

Oh, you rock, man.  BTW, is the awesomeness that is Chopin's Etude in E Major on this thread?

[pianowolfi]

Oh, you rock, man.  BTW, is the awesomeness that is Chopin's Etude in E Major on this thread?

Quantum has signed up for that one. But there's no recording yet on this thread, I think. And you are welcome to contribute

Btw you are "not into classical" and call this awesomeness? I sense an upcoming addiction to "classical" 

[pianowolfi]

Okay, here is Op. 25 no. 1 update.  From memory, but obviously still a work in progress.  

In very good progress I think

[m1469]

In very good progress I think

Thanks, Wolfi!  I am somewhere between "high hopes" and "coming to reality" with my goals for this group for the halfway point ... well, for May 16th.  

Recording (and posting) is a great way to stay ... realistic ... I guess  .

[m1469]

Okay, I'm going to actually outright apologize for this one.  In order to keep myself from obsessing over this for the rest of the day and weekend, I'm making myself post it.  Obviously it's still under construction but (still) from memory.  Monsty accidentally came out just a little bit.  



*arghy*



it still needs SO much work  

[pianowolfi]

Sure it needs a lot of work, but you'll do it Go Monsty go

you know what? I have actually managed to get one measure of op 10,2 up to speed.One measure. Twice. And a couple of half measures. That was a huge thing, yesterday, I mean today in the wee hours of the morning 

[m1469]

Okay, Wolfi .  I mean, the whole thing.  Thank you, and congratulations on getting that measure up to speed twice .

[floydcramerfan]

Wolfi, I have a very weird reaction to classical.  I love some of it and then some of it I don't really dig, but you'd have to be a straightie headed straightie not to want to play the Etude in E as loud as it will go.  I used to play part of it when I played classical, but dang it if I didn't forget how to play it.  I get part of the way through it and then have a brain fart and can't get any farther, so I switch to the gospel song that sounds very similar to it.  And I don't even let my teddy bears hear me play classical, so I sure wouldn't let you experts hear it.  It would probably be comedy gold.