Project Shapety Shape

[thalbergmad]

That is a good healthy protein intake if you are lifting weights.

Much of my protein comes from shakes as i dont want the calories. Getting rid of the last stubborn bits of fat.

Thal

[georgey]

That is a good healthy protein intake if you are lifting weights.

Much of my protein comes from shakes as i dont want the calories. Getting rid of the last stubborn bits of fat.

Thal

Just my crippled old man stuff.  I do like protein shakes though.  Max two 25 gram protein scoops a day - afraid I might irritate my stomach.  GNC Pure isolate micro-filtered whey protein isolate chocolate frosting - hope nothing toxic in this - heavy metals?  I looked up each ingredient and it looks like all are okay.

[thalbergmad]

I tend to go for the Isolate as it is usually lower carbs, however many sellers seem to use the word isolate to bump up the cost.
I am currently on about 250 grms of protein per day, 100 of which come from shakes.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

 400 pounds x 3.
500 is not far away

[ted]

Amazing, don't know how you do it, looks like hernia city. Well done.

[thalbergmad]

Done incorrectly, there are all kinds of dangers.
You will note my loss of form on the 3rd rep. That is why i was not asked for a 4th and why these types of lifts should be supervized.
Inhope to post a video of a 500 in due course.

Thal

[timothy42b]

Wow, that's an awesome dead lift, and you're doing it raw, no compression shirt or straps.

I see you use the alternate grip.  When I did dead lifts last I went to a hook grip or the weight would just roll out of my hands.  No more weights for me, but I do chin-ups and dips with a light weight on my belt (to make up for the fat I've lost).

I think if I were going to do a lot of dead lifting for my health now I'd buy a trap bar.  The US army is using that in their new Combat Fitness Test and it looks a lot safer for someone not skilled in the fine points of form.  Some of the other new test events look a little less safe, you should youtube it.  (ACFT) 

[thalbergmad]

The trap bar allows one to take pressure off the lower back, so i guess it is safer.

Sure good for them glutes.

Thal

[Bob]

So, Thal, serious question.  How do you push things when you don't feel like it?

I'm thinking the answer is to wait, heal up, stretch/massage things out, still do something but not the max weight, and then.... probably start building up from a lower weight I guess.  Agree?

[thalbergmad]

Depends why you dont feel like it old chap.

If i wake up tired but otherwise OK, i drag myself to the gym.

If i have pain or injury, then what you suggested.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

https://imgur.com/r1xKrRe
Don't mess with me baby.

[ahinton]

https://imgur.com/r1xKrRe
Don't mess with me baby.

Didn't know that you had a baby with whom to mess!

Best,

Alistair

[ted]

https://imgur.com/r1xKrRe
Don't mess with me baby.

An outstanding achievement of which you should be proud. I don’t think I could have ever gone the muscle building way, not the right natural shape. Sad about Peter Snell by the way, but I guess going while asleep is a pretty good option.

[thalbergmad]

I did not know that. Great athlete.
I think a heart attack in the gym will ecentually do for me.

[ahinton]

I think a heart attack in the gym will ecentually do for me.

I very much hope not, Thal, (not so) old chap!

Best,

Alistair

[goldentone]

https://imgur.com/r1xKrRe
Don't mess with me baby.

I would not want to meet such a man in a pub, unless Schumann were with me. 

[ahinton]

I would not want to meet such a man in a pub, unless Schumann were with me. 

I would be loath to take Schumann to a pub.

Best,

Alistair

[Bob]

Hey Thal, about how many calories were you eating per day while bulking?  And what did you eat to get extra calories like that, considering "storage space?"

[thalbergmad]

I consume 3000 calories when bulking and 2000 when cutting old chap. That is only 500 either side of my maintenance level of 2500.
At my lightest i was 192 pounds and i am now 225 pounds. I operate on different macros and consume more carbs on a bulk. More oat cakes, porridge and the like.
Thal

[ted]

Has anyone else experienced considerable improvement in fitness during lockdown ? Mowing the kikuyu grass in autumn used to involve some effort but now it is just an enjoyable prelude to real training. It would be even more enjoyable were our place not the local cat lavatory but never mind. lately, I am finding I have to exercycle madly for an hour to feel I have done anything. Of course I think everybody is eating better, sleeping better, cooking their own food, that would help.



 

[thalbergmad]

Looking great Ted. You have serious muscle for a man of your vintage.
One of the positives of this virus is that McDonalds is closed, which can only benefit those that consumed it.
In what condition people emerge from this lockdown i think will vary. Some of my friends seem to be drinking more and exercising less, but others are realising that fitness seems to be a defence against this virus.
I guess only time will tell.

[thalbergmad]

https://ibb.co/GcMfSTc 

[ahinton]

https://ibb.co/GcMfSTc 

Fitness personified! Well done! You could probably do with a new phone case, though...

Best,

Alistair

[Bob]

How do you deal with pushing in one direction vs. another?  You're going to lose somewhere if it's the edge, right?

[thalbergmad]

I dont understand you old boy.

[thalbergmad]

How does one embed a photo in this place. I have forgotten how to do it.

[Bob]

I dont understand you old boy.

If you push in one area, like arms, you probably have to devote more time to that, so you're devoting less time to another area, like legs.  And a push takes some time, effort, focus.  It would happen over days at least, maybe weeks.  If you're really doing something new in one direction, it will take a while to capture it, but then you're neglecting/atrophying? in another direction.....   I guess you just have to go back to the other area and regroup.  Chances are there's a crash happening while pushing farther in one direction anyway too I suppose.

[timothy42b]

Has anyone else experienced considerable improvement in fitness during lockdown ?

The gyms at work have been closed, which eliminated my lunch hour workouts.  I telework at home alternate days, so I can workout and shower at lunch, but office days while I have time to workout I'd have to come back sweaty. 

So on those days my workouts move to after work, and what I find is if I workout hard I can't get to sleep.  So my fitness hasn't changed much, but I get less sleep.

I have moved to a new program to fit it in this way.  Mondays i go to yoga class after work.  Tuesdays and Fridays I ride my exercise bike (an old 10 speed on a mag trainer, great workout).  Wednesdays and Saturdays I do kettlebell swings ala Pavel.  Thursdays and Sundays are Turkish Getups.  I'm still maintaining that 50 pound weightloss 2 years in.

[ted]

The gyms at work have been closed, which eliminated my lunch hour workouts.  I telework at home alternate days, so I can workout and shower at lunch, but office days while I have time to workout I'd have to come back sweaty. 

So on those days my workouts move to after work, and what I find is if I workout hard I can't get to sleep.  So my fitness hasn't changed much, but I get less sleep.

I have moved to a new program to fit it in this way.  Mondays i go to yoga class after work.  Tuesdays and Fridays I ride my exercise bike (an old 10 speed on a mag trainer, great workout).  Wednesdays and Saturdays I do kettlebell swings ala Pavel.  Thursdays and Sundays are Turkish Getups.  I'm still maintaining that 50 pound weightloss 2 years in.

You are probably more highly organised than I am at the best of times. It might be that I just felt better during lockdown through the compulsory elimination of social duties I do not enjoy. Aside from daily training sessions in the late afternoon I keep activity fairly unstructured, much the same as I do with music. I used fitbits for a while but I broke them all, and I came to the conclusion that being in thrall to devices, constant preoccupation with times, figures, blood pressure, pulse and so on, did not lead to a positive mental state. Discipline is important but so is spontaneity and prior to lockdown I was getting very regimented.

[Bob]

How does one embed a photo in this place. I have forgotten how to do it.

Preview button and the picture icon.   or



How much do you rest?  Like in terms of days.  In terms of weight lifting I guess.  Do you do something different on a day you're not resting from weight lifting?

[Bob]

Hey Thal,

How do you breath while lifting weights?  And have you run into any negatives for breathing while lifting, esp. if lifting heavier weights that push your lifting capacity?

[thalbergmad]

I avoid the kind of breathing adopted by powerlifters as i do not lift heavy. It is a rarity nowadays if i drop below 10 reps, so my breathing is simple. Breath out on the contraction.

[thalbergmad]

Old man blasts arms

[Bob]

Any thoughts on keeping abs... "in place?" Tight?  I've noticed and realized this past summer if I use barbell with weight for something like squats, I'm pretty sure there' pressure from the 'guts' pushing outward.  Add in the need to breathe (unless you hold your breath for one rep), and the abs get pushed out a little.  Heavier weight or more reps, more push, more of a 'step forward' (in a negative way, more a bulge but the whole area of the abs) for the abs muscles.

Some things I've thought of are just to pause anything like squats that pushes out the abs like that, along with something like crunches to tighten them up again.

[j_tour]

I think I know what you mean, Bob, or what you're talking about, but it's never been an issue about which I'd remark personally.

But, I do a lot of pushups, every day, which definitely keeps the abs "aligned" pretty well.

You know, in perfect form, no slack-ass pushups.  Nor anything fancy, like one-handed pushups, although I like some of those variations as well.

Tricep dips also work the abs pretty well.  It seems counter-intuitive, because your arms are doing most of the work, you know, but physiology is kind of complicated, and I think unless you're throwing a medicine ball around, those types of calisthenic/body-weight exercises are about as good as you can do.

I still have a pretty good-sized beer gut, despite abstaining from alcohol four days a week, but the regular pushups really work the abs/core.  Crank out a hundred quod diem and tell me that you don't feel something!

I'd like to say I do a bunch of pull-up/chin-ups at home as well, but...well...they're difficult!  Let's call that a work in progress.

But for tightening the abs, all I know is that regular pushups don't fail.  Yeah, as a pianist, you might  be more comfortable doing on the knuckles/fists or even using the little hand-bar devices they sell or you can make, but the exercise gets everything aligned and "pushed in" and so forth as well as anything I've done.

Of course, squats with a barbell or even preacher curls with dumbells would work, or even bench presses using dumbells instead of a barbell, provided you use the right breathing and focus, but I think for general core strength, there's not much need for anything but standard body-weight exercises.

[j_tour]

dupe post 2x

[ted]

You're doing well, Thal, try to stop short of further injury though. At my age I prefer expanders and the bullworker for resistance because I am free to invent my own positions and vary the difficulty depending on how I feel from day to day. I bought a quality spin bike since wrecking the other two and use it most days, but the same principle of varying parameters from day to day applies. As with piano playing, I seem to thrive better on variety than on unvarying daily grind. Each to his own I suppose.

[ted]

Another important point for me is that the effect on finger flexion for piano playing is nowhere near what it was when I lifted free weights, which used to cause a day of clumsiness in pure finger work such as double notes.

[j_tour]

Another important point for me is that the effect on finger flexion for piano playing is nowhere near what it was when I lifted free weights, which used to cause a day of clumsiness in pure finger work such as double notes.

I know you guys have your own ongoing conversation here, and I'm kind of butting in like a jackass, but can you explain a bit more about what you mean by "finger flexion"?

It happens that my day job often includes manipulating my fingers in very non-pianistic ways.  Actually, painful ways, a lot of lateral tension and grip strength used.

Yes, I use about 2400 mg of ibuprofren per day:  it's the prescription stuff in boluses of 800 mg.  Not especially good for the stomach lining, but it really does reduce inflammation elsewhere when used judiciously.

[thalbergmad]

Any thoughts on keeping abs... "in place?" Tight?  I've noticed and realized this past summer if I use barbell with weight for something like squats, I'm pretty sure there' pressure from the 'guts' pushing outward.

That is what happens when you are breathing correctly. With heavy squats on the way up, you force the air through a closed mouth which creates tension in the abs. This is why powerlifters go red in the face.

[thalbergmad]

Yes, I use about 2400 mg of ibuprofren per day:  it's the prescription stuff in boluses of 800 mg.  Not especially good for the stomach lining, but it really does reduce inflammation elsewhere when used judiciously.

You may find turmeric to be as effective and much safer old chap.

[thalbergmad]

You're doing well, Thal, try to stop short of further injury though. At my age I prefer expanders and the bullworker for resistance because I am free to invent my own positions and vary the difficulty depending on how I feel from day to day. I bought a quality spin bike since wrecking the other two and use it most days, but the same principle of varying parameters from day to day applies. As with piano playing, I seem to thrive better on variety than on unvarying daily grind. Each to his own I suppose.

I used to have a bull worker. All the rage 40 years ago.

Anyway old chap, you have your famous lawnmower.

[Bob]

That is what happens when you are breathing correctly. With heavy squats on the way up, you force the air through a closed mouth which creates tension in the abs. This is why powerlifters go red in the face.

So correct is ab muscles kind of moving out?  I'm not sure what to call it.  It's the wall of abs muscles has a new default position a bit farther out.  I just don't like it.  After I noticed it a bit, I noticed weight lifters have abs that are our farther like that.  And then the internal pressure idea made more sense.  Or maybe the abs go back flatter when they recover or strengthen more... hm.

[ted]

I know you guys have your own ongoing conversation here, and I'm kind of butting in like a jackass, but can you explain a bit more about what you mean by "finger flexion"?

It happens that my day job often includes manipulating my fingers in very non-pianistic ways.  Actually, painful ways, a lot of lateral tension and grip strength used.

Yes, I use about 2400 mg of ibuprofren per day:  it's the prescription stuff in boluses of 800 mg.  Not especially good for the stomach lining, but it really does reduce inflammation elsewhere when used judiciously.

For me "finger flexion" means ease and dexterity of pure finger strokes in piano playing. I used to find that prolonged tight gripping, such as is more or less necessary in upper body resistance training, caused clumsiness and stiffness in such movements for a day, possibly two days afterwards. I encountered a similar effect decades ago in the right hand from gripping the racquet when I played enormous amounts of hard tennis. I have found that training with expanders (the hard, metal ones with springs, not those easy rubber things) and the bullworker produces nowhere near the same problem, especially if I intersperse the workout with stretches.

[ted]

Anyway old chap, you have your famous lawnmower.

I've just had to get a new one. I have four old ones I buggered pushing through the kikuyu grass. I use them for spare parts. Motor mowers are noisy, stinky, expensive and dangerous. When I was a boy my neighbour slipped while using one and it severed the tendons in his ankle; he was never the same again. It horrifies me to see my neighbours using them while wearing sandals or sandshoes.

[thalbergmad]

So correct is ab muscles kind of moving out?  I'm not sure what to call it.  It's the wall of abs muscles has a new default position a bit farther out.  I just don't like it.  After I noticed it a bit, I noticed weight lifters have abs that are our farther like that.  And then the internal pressure idea made more sense.  Or maybe the abs go back flatter when they recover or strengthen more... hm.

Many weightlifters and powerlifters are just fat lol.

If you are worried about your abs sticking out, try wearing a belt old boy.

[thalbergmad]

So correct is ab muscles kind of moving out?  I'm not sure what to call it.  It's the wall of abs muscles has a new default position a bit farther out.  I just don't like it.  After I noticed it a bit, I noticed weight lifters have abs that are our farther like that.  And then the internal pressure idea made more sense.  Or maybe the abs go back flatter when they recover or strengthen more... hm.

Many weightlifters and powerlifters are just fat lol.

If you are worried about your abs sticking out, try wearing a belt old boy.

[timothy42b]

I've just had to get a new one. I have four old ones I buggered pushing through the kikuyu grass. I use them for spare parts. Motor mowers are noisy, stinky, expensive and dangerous. When I was a boy my neighbour slipped while using one and it severed the tendons in his ankle; he was never the same again. It horrifies me to see my neighbours using them while wearing sandals or sandshoes.

My brother bought a new Toro recycler lawnmower to replace an old one that wouldn't run.  Why not repair it?  He had it to the shop 3 times and they claimed it was fixed it but it wouldn't stay running. 

But it looked in good shape so I took it to my lawnmower repair guy who is really good.  He kept it six weeks due to backlog, then pronounced it fixed.  By then I'd missed most of the season, and it ran long enough to cut the lawn once, then no more. 

So, time to try it myself, but I needed a place to work.  When I had my shed reroofed we discovered the sill plates and the bottom foot of the studs had rotted completely away.  You could grab handfuls of sawdust with fingers.  So I spent the spring and early summer replacing all the rotted wood while mowing with the nonmotorized push mower.  Once that was done, I bought a cheap carburetor off Amazon, replaced the one in the lawnmower, and it has run flawlessly since. 

[ted]

I do not expect anybody here to provide irrefutable answers to these two questions but perhaps someone has experience of them.

I have had flat feet all my life and spent all my twenties and most of my thirties playing very strenuous hardcourt tennis, sometimes for hours on end, in old fashioned sandshoes without much cushioning or support. I had no foot problems at all. I did no running off the court but that was because I didn't like it, not because I couldn't. In my fifties I sustained a medial knee ligament tear and a ruptured posterior tibial, through slipping accidents, which injuries led me to a physiotherapist who said I must wear orthotics. I had a pair made and used them in all footwear.

Fast forward to this year when I started to get achilles and posterior tibial pain for no obvious reason. One day, while walking some distance, I suddenly realised I had forgotten to insert my orthotics. I also realised the pain had vanished. I have ceased using them in any footwear for a couple of months now and no pain has occurred despite heavy training and lots of labouring and walking.

So I am beginning to wonder if perhaps orthotics are not such a good idea for naturally flat footed people; perhaps too much support can condition things into a state of weakness ?

The second question concerns that bane of athletically inclined people, the nocturnal calf cramp. I stretch properly after training, take on water, do all the right things but still manage about two a year. It is a delightful moment waking from a pleasant dream in a semi-conscious state of writhing agony. To cut a long story short, I have come to reject the advice to immediately stretch the affected muscle; I have found it makes the leg sore for a couple of days. Whereas if I can muster the presence of mind to sit up and gently but firmly massage the area the effects disappear much more quickly.

Of course I am getting older now and things aren't quite the same as they were fifty or even forty years ago but I nonetheless wonder about the validity of commonly held ideas concerning these matters.

[j_tour]

Well, Ted, I can't answer your real questions, but a bit ago, between the ages of 42 and 43 (I'm not 45 yet, fool!). acute posterior tibial tendonitis got me.

I could still get around, but I used (and still use) ibuprofen like crazy, and limping like a crazy fool.  Not too much ibuprofren, but not too little:  one of these days my gut's going to complain.  Although I think the canonical medical advice is that the antinflammatory properties can take a few weeks of rigorous application/dosage to properly be effective.  IOW, it's not an opioid where you take it and get instant relief.  And the various devices to stabilize the foot.  My favorite is just athletic tape.

There is, at least in the US, sold a product called KT-tape, i.e., "kinesio-tape," which comes pre-cut in large rolls, but I prefer the simpler rolls of generic athletic tape.  It requires, as you know, a bit of knowledge and practice to apply correctly.  The KT style of pre-cut strips is just for convenience, as far as I'm concerned, and being a bit stubborn, I just use regular athletic type that comes in a roll from you favorite pharmacy or drugstore or whatever.  More fun to me, but YMMV.

Then again, what doesn't?

So, when I got that figured out, plantar fasciitis hit me hard.  No amount of taping could help that, at all. except for taping to restore the arch of the foot, which for me relieved some of the presure.  But, while they're not official orthotics, I found supporting the arch with over-the-counter sole inserts help.

That, rest, and lots of ibuprofen.  And for the plantar fasciitis, doing the recommended stretches at home.

That last bit was really the key:  once the pretty severe pain subsided a few hours after waking up and sitting at my desk drinking coffee, just a gentle elongation of the fascii alongside another desk in my my office.

What bothered me, aside from the nearly-delibitating pain and the finicky regimen of NSAIDs, was that it was difficult for me to do pushups, which I like to do.

No, I don't have any advice for you, but just a reminder that you should have courage, mon vieux. 

I really do think if you catch PFasciitis early enough you can work through it, mostly by careful elongation of the fascii, plus rest.  but I don't believe there are any special home remedies I know of:  just rest, elevation.

And, yes, this sounds crazy, but I like the epsom salts soaking of the feet. 

Now I'm officially old.  Thank you very little!

About the spasms in muscles, the ony thing is a cramp in either of the hands, that, while not painful, makes it impossible to use either hand for about a half an hour so.

I suspect it's neurological in basis, in my case, ad the latter, but I really wouldn't know.

I do think over-the-counter insoles can lessen the need to use athletic tape, about which latter, as you know, there are specific techniques for applying the tape.

I don't know anything about flat-feet, though.

But the acute, sometimes crippling, pain of plantar fasciitis has far exceeded anything, even beyond an ankle I either broke or sprained or strained recently. 

No, for that, I found the only remedy was careful stretching/elongating the fascii.  Not even prescription-strength ibuprofen helped.  Absolutely debilitating, and it last about eight months.

The worst, though, was just like postTib tendonitis, not being able to put my foot on the floor to do pushups. 

And that is my greatest shame, never have been able to circumvent the problem by doing one-handed push-ups:  not that those are all that difficult, but that' a variant one of of my favorite exercise just to do whenever a free moment finds itself open to me. 

Drunk, sober, bored:  I love doing pushups, and these ailments really made it extremely difficult.