Objectional Parallels?

[kentar]

This is how the 6th Edition Tonal Harmony explains it.
Objectional parallels result when two parts that are seperated by a P5 or a P8, or by their octave equivalents, move to new pitch classes that are seperated by the same interval.

Could someone explain this to me?

[oxy60]

I'll take a swing at this and see if anyone finds me wrong.

If you look at "Pictures at an Exhibition" first movement you will see examples of this. Notice how the tension increases as voices move towards each other and less when they move out. When they move in parallel the tension seems to relax.

This is an issue you must keep in mind when composing or arranging. 

[Bob]

I think they're just talking about parallel fifths or octaves.

It doesn't matter if the fifth or octave are close or far.  It's still some kind of fifth or octave.

I haven't heard "objectional" but maybe they mean offensive?

Pitches classes... It's just a way of say another note, another pitch.  C is a pitch class.  C# is another pitch class.  D is a pitch class. 

It's more about having independent voices all of a sudden turn into one voice.  That's the point of the parallel fifth/octave rules.  I'm still not sure on what they mean by "objectional" but I think it's just saying don't use parallel fifths or octaves.  And it doesn't matter what octaves the notes are in, a fifth is a still a fifth. 

I think the pitch class language is how they're trying to be more scientific about music theory.  I saw that with 20th century theory class.

[pianorama]

It's talking about music writing I believe in particular four-part choral music or traditional counterpoint-type situations (Baroque dances, etc) when two voices a perfect 5th or 8ve apart move in the same direction to a second pair of the same interval.

Ex. A chord with notes C G C E moving to a chord D A D F (I to ii in C major) would contain both parallel fifths (C -G to D -A) and parallel octaves (C-C to D-D) and I've never heard them being called objectional before, but what it means is it just sounds bad and is considered "wrong".
 

[Bob]

Maybe it was a typo -- Maybe they meant "objectionable."

Or a typo on kentar's part.   


Sounds like straight forward parallel fifths or parallel octaves.

[oxy60]

Looks like we're all talking about the same thing. I was taught to move the voices in opposite directions. Often at the console you need to fill in until everyone is ready so organists developed a technique of moving the hands up and the pedals down (or the other way around) while never resolving the harmony.

If you move the voices in parallel you impose a kind of resolution because there is no where to go when you run out of keyboard. Try playing parallel octaves up or down. Then think about what will follow. It almost demands an entrance of a full orchestra playing a major chord in root position.
 

[Bob]

Who wrote that book?  We've got the title but who's the author?

[jgallag]

Here's a simple explanation: parallel fifths and octaves are forbidden. If the interval between two voices in one chord is a fifth or octave, and in the next chord after is the same, that's not allowed. As a bonus, my theory professor gave us this awesome way to check for them: find every fifth or octave in your writing and check the notes that proceed them to see if the previous interval was the same. This is a lot better than checking soprano against alto, then soprano against tenor, etc... which is what I used to do, because I am a very slow theory major. The reasoning I was taught behind this rule is that in early counterpoint a sense of independence was valued between the parts. This independence is still maintained in the sense of parallel thirds and sixths, but with octaves and fifths the voices tend to lose their individual character. And I'm going to assume your book is Kostka and Payne? Classic... They were using that when my chorus teacher went to school, and they used it with me too.

[cudo]

This is how the 6th Edition Tonal Harmony explains it.
Objectional parallels result when two parts that are seperated by a P5 or a P8, or by their octave equivalents, move to new pitch classes that are seperated by the same interval.

Could someone explain this to me?

Hi Kentar,

paralle fifth and octaves are not allways objectional. In gregorian or renaissance music for example they were used often and formed part of the allover sound.

It was until contrapunct writing came up when parallel fifth and octaves where forbidden. The reason therefore was the perfect consonance they provide. Moving this perfect consonance in parallels obscures the independence of each single voices in a contrapunctual context.

In non-polyfonic music parallels are normaly allowed.

[Bob]

Someone needs to get their hands on this book and see if it's really reads "objectionable."

[kentar]

Sorry for the late reply!
It reads objectionable. I apologize for the typo!

[Bob]

Ah, well that makes more sense.  It's just parallel fifths and octaves.