how many hours?

[pianoviolin]

hey guys, I've been wanting to know, how much hours does an advanced student piano player should practise on a daily basis?

or, what's the minimum amount of time we should practise?

[faulty_damper]

He practices enough that the correct movements that serve the making of music is just perfect.  In other words, it depends on the student and the piece.

Some students force it which means they will always practice it up and never actually learn how to play it.

A handful of students actually take the time to learn the correct movements which may mean a lot more time is spent figuring out the best movements but a lot less time actually practicing.

But the real answer to your question has nothing to do with practice but your mindset.  You are still thinking about practice in terms of hours instead of purpose.

[omar_roy]

As the old adage goes...

"Amateurs practice till they get it right.  Professionals practice till they can't get it wrong."

[jesc]

IMO it depends on how well you can cope with the piece you're currently working on.

In my case, I can spend some days off the piano and still play Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement. For that same time off I might no longer be able to play Scherzo 2 (Chopin) exactly the way I wanted to. Far worse for that time off, my Liszt concert etude might become less than mediocre.   

Currently I'm doing at least 5 hours a day just to keep in shape for those 3 pieces (plus a few more I didn't mention). That's my physical capability which I had to accept.

It's the first time I heard that quote above. The second part is most important. However, from my cynical perspective I would rather say: "Practice to lessen the chances of getting it wrong."

[richard black]

I may have quoted this on this board before, in which case apologies for being repetitive, but one very experienced (now retired) concert pianist once said in my hearing, years ago, 'If you can't make it on 4 hours a day, 8 won't help'. He immediately qualified this by saying that sometimes one has to go to ridiculous lengths to learn a piece of programme in a hurry, but in general he stood by his 4 hours figure.

[nearenough]

Richter supposedly practiced up to 12-14 hours a day.

Horowitz admitted to 2 hours a day.

Sometimes one can play pieces fairly well without having practiced or played them for months (or years). Only a few pieces though.

[pianisten1989]

Well, that depends. If you only play one piece at the time, more than 4 hours probably wont help that much (though, you can ofc practise technique or right reading some more hours), but if you play, say, 4 pieces, 4 hours is probably to little...

[emilye]

Richter supposedly practiced up to 12-14 hours a day.

Horowitz admitted to 2 hours a day.

Sometimes one can play pieces fairly well without having practiced or played them for months (or years). Only a few pieces though.

It is not true. Richter didn't practice 12-14 hours a day! Did you see or read interviews with him? He told that he practise about 3-4 hours a day, sometimes two days before recital he practise all day, but it was really rare.

[ledger_lines]

How much time you practice depends on 3 things I think.

1) You - You might practice for 6 hours straight and not progress. However, reducing to 3 hours with regular breaks might actually increase your progress. We all have very different brains that respond to different practice techniques.
2) The Music - If its a difficult piece, or your learning lots of pieces you might have to practice more.
3) The Performance - Is this a performance for you gran or are you at the Royal Albert Hall? lol.

Based on these 3 factors, my practice times varies allot. I never have a fixed amount of time.

Ledger

[emill]

The minimum will depend on a lot of thing like:

1. The skill and drive of the student ....
2. The difficulty of the piece(s)
3. The number of pieces to be learned for a particular time
4. others:
     a)  available time - during schooldays my son practices about 30 minutes a day; but 10 -12  weeks before a recital -  2 -3 hours a day
     b)  mood - my son says, practicing 3-4 hours or more if one is NOT in the mood is much less productive than an hour's practice if one is in the mood; sometimes a week passes without him touching the piano.
     c) the requirements and demands of the teacher

Perhaps a consistent, an hour a day will be good for most as it will also develop the habit, maintain discipline and reign in the mood!
 
    

[omar_roy]

mood - my son says, practicing 3-4 hours or more if one is NOT in the mood is much less productive than an hour's practice if one is in the mood; sometimes a week passes without him touching the piano.
 
    

Ideally, one's mood or feelings should have no effect on practice.  Ideally, again, we should be able to put ourselves in "practice mode" whenever it is that we have to practice, but this kind of discipline takes years to develop.  Even as a student pursuing a music degree, I find myself not "in the mood" to practice and yet deadlines and requirements force me to be efficient and productive even when practicing is absolutely the last thing I want to be doing. 

It's important to develop this ability to force oneself to work even when one doesn't want to, because in the professional world, you don't have the luxury of practicing when the mood strikes you.  You have a limited amount of time available, and a certain amount of work that needs to be completed, and no choice but to complete it regardless of your feelings on the matter.

Again, I speak in an ideal sense of what we should be able to do.  I will be the first to admit that sometimes if I don't feel like practicing, I'll blow it off.  Sometimes I deeply regret that decision, and sometimes it reminds me of my passion and I'm insanely focused and productive in my next practice session.  The discipline to practice effectively even when you don't want to is a lofty, and likely unattainable goal (in its most explicit terms), but one that we should certainly strive to attain.

[nearenough]

Emilye says: It is not true. Richter didn't practice 12-14 hours a day! Did you see or read interviews with him? He told that he practise about 3-4 hours a day, sometimes two days before recital he practise all day, but it was really rare.

N replies: Well I stand by what I said. I heard rumors of this a long time ago (when Richter was first talked about). In Nov 2001 I purchased the book "Sviatoslav Richter - Notebooks and Conversation" by Bruno Montsaingeon, Princeton University Press, translation 2001, and on page 62 a footnote concerns his getting an apartment circa 1946. In November 1950 he wrote a letter to the "authorities" about the apt and (excerpted) it reads in part: "I need a two room flat where I can practice for between twelve and fourteen hours a day...without disturbing anyone...."

You can take this for what it is worth, being a direct quote from Richter himself.

Perhaps later his needs were less, but in 1946 - 1950 it was apparently 12-14 hours.

[countrymath]

"I need a two room flat where I can practice for between twelve and fourteen hours a day...without disturbing anyone...."

Ok, he said he needed a room where he could practice 12 hours a day. It doenst mean he would, though.

[emilye]

Emilye says: It is not true. Richter didn't practice 12-14 hours a day! Did you see or read interviews with him? He told that he practise about 3-4 hours a day, sometimes two days before recital he practise all day, but it was really rare.

N replies: Well I stand by what I said. I heard rumors of this a long time ago (when Richter was first talked about). In Nov 2001 I purchased the book "Sviatoslav Richter - Notebooks and Conversation" by Bruno Montsaingeon, Princeton University Press, translation 2001, and on page 62 a footnote concerns his getting an apartment circa 1946. In November 1950 he wrote a letter to the "authorities" about the apt and (excerpted) it reads in part: "I need a two room flat where I can practice for between twelve and fourteen hours a day...without disturbing anyone...."

You can take this for what it is worth, being a direct quote from Richter himself.

Perhaps later his needs were less, but in 1946 - 1950 it was apparently 12-14 hours.

yeah I have this book and ... in p. 62 I can't see this quote. I read this book - Richter said that it's the rumours. He never practise 12-14 hours. Yes sometimes (really sometimes) he played all day before a concert, but sometimes when I find his words in this book, I'll write.

[countrymath]

Ok. 4-5 hours. But what about the other 20-19 ?

[omar_roy]

Out of curiosity, we always talk about how many hours we should practice AT the piano.

How much time do we spend practicing away from the piano?  During the day whenever I have free time I find myself trying to mentally "practice" difficult sections of my music, and "listening" to my interpretation in my head to solidify it.

Anyone else do this?

[invictious]

I happen to usually spend less than an hour on the piano for physical practice since we live in apartments here. I am forced to practice away from the piano, going through the sheet music and familiarising myself with the notes and the details.

I think mental practice is a highly valuable skill that many should utilise.

[emilye]

I think 3 hours a day - ok.
Monday - Friday - 3 hours and Saturday - Sunday - 4 - 6 hours.

[countrymath]

I think 3 hours a day - ok.
Monday - Friday - 3 hours and Saturday - Sunday - 4 - 6 hours.

I do the opposite.

On monday - saturday I usualy practice more. Sunday is for mental practice, theory and computer games only \o/

[geniachu]

Here is the link to Chopin's practice solutions. Here recommended 'practice period's should be scheduled around the mind's natural attention span' https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TooQ84u7ReUC&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=‘Practicing+for+more+than+3+hours+a+day+is+a+waist+of+time.’++chopin&source=bl&ots=uklYri7x_W&sig=qP5ng0QXlLn4gfYMh-8u5yq5ibo&hl=en&ei=aH-5TcbcG4Ww8gOZqNBK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[emilye]

I do the opposite.

On monday - saturday I usualy practice more. Sunday is for mental practice, theory and computer games only \o/

Do you go to school? If i have lessons: 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. I must find time to practise the piano. Saturday and Sunday - free days when I can practise more. Sorry for my language.

[countrymath]

Do you go to school? If i have lessons: 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. I must find time to practise the piano. Saturday and Sunday - free days when I can practise more. Sorry for my language.

Nope. Finished school already. I live with my parents, so I have a lot of time for study. I also think that its a waste of time to practice more then 5 hours a day.

[nearenough]

Country: Ok, he said he needed a room where he could practice 12 hours a day. It doenst mean he would, though.

N: He said, "Where I can practice...." not "Where I could practice...."

No, it might not mean anything when you would have to admit you were wrong in your original assertion.

As to the other respondent not being able to find the quote, it is indeed in the footnote on page 62 of my edition as I mentioned. But then, in possibly admitting you were wrong you might have to invoke the possibility there might be another edition of the book where there is no such footnote, or even that there might be a conspiracy plot going on which denies anyone in the world might have to practice or want to practice 12-14 hours a day.

Both of you, have it your way and maintain your self-esteem.

[ongaku_oniko]

Country: Ok, he said he needed a room where he could practice 12 hours a day. It doenst mean he would, though.

N: He said, "Where I can practice...." not "Where I could practice...."

No, it might not mean anything when you would have to admit you were wrong in your original assertion.

As to the other respondent not being able to find the quote, it is indeed in the footnote on page 62 of my edition as I mentioned. But then, in possibly admitting you were wrong you might have to invoke the possibility there might be another edition of the book where there is no such footnote, or even that there might be a conspiracy plot going on which denies anyone in the world might have to practice or want to practice 12-14 hours a day.

Both of you, have it your way and maintain your self-esteem.

No, I think that it's pretty obvious they would be cynical when you've shown no evidence other than your own claims. You're claiming that emilye lied about having the book? How would we know it is not you who lied? Do you have a scan of the page?

[emilye]

Country: Ok, he said he needed a room where he could practice 12 hours a day. It doenst mean he would, though.

N: He said, "Where I can practice...." not "Where I could practice...."

No, it might not mean anything when you would have to admit you were wrong in your original assertion.

As to the other respondent not being able to find the quote, it is indeed in the footnote on page 62 of my edition as I mentioned. But then, in possibly admitting you were wrong you might have to invoke the possibility there might be another edition of the book where there is no such footnote, or even that there might be a conspiracy plot going on which denies anyone in the world might have to practice or want to practice 12-14 hours a day.

Both of you, have it your way and maintain your self-esteem.

hehe I bought this book about 2 months ago and now I search this quote. You must read attentively. I didn't write that we can't find this quote altogether. I wrote that in my book (maybe I have another edition) I didn't find. But ... today I found and I have this quote in p. 65 so ... You're right. He said that he need room to practise 12-14 hours but it was 'before' important 'concert'. I read (but I don't remember in this book or interview) he said  that he practise many hours very rarely. RARELY. So don't gossip.

And what's more. Richter practise many hours but we must remember that he was prodigy and when he practised 12 hours (rarely!!) it was important because he can play e.g. sonata by Beethoven or Prokofiev in next week in the big concert.

[nearenough]

To those who want to make professional career about this, I originally said:

"Richter supposedly practiced up to 12-14 hours a day."

"SUPPOSEDLY"

Take it and run with all your might.

[ledger_lines]

How much time do we spend practicing away from the piano?  During the day whenever I have free time I find myself trying to mentally "practice" difficult sections of my music, and "listening" to my interpretation in my head to solidify it.

Anyone else do this?

Interesting. I spend allot of time thinking about the music I am playing and visualise myself playing it. Indeed, I also listen to other interpretations, although sometimes this influences my performance in a negative way.

I also do allot of exercises away from the piano. Reading a book called Piano-Yoga that encourages many exercises away from the piano. So maybe, an extra 2 hours away from the Piano. Never really thought about it before  

[avguste]

It all depends what the final goal is. If it is a concert career, then I recommend a minimum of 3 hours per day

[omar_roy]

Interesting. I spend allot of time thinking about the music I am playing and visualise myself playing it. Indeed, I also listen to other interpretations, although sometimes this influences my performance in a negative way.

I also do allot of exercises away from the piano. Reading a book called Piano-Yoga that encourages many exercises away from the piano. So maybe, an extra 2 hours away from the Piano. Never really thought about it before  

Aside from "visualizing" yourself playing it, try actually playing it in your mind!  Close your eyes (or leave them open) and try to "feel" every note in the piece that you play as you hear it in your head.  It's very difficult, time consuming, and exhausting but i've found that it helps immensely with memory.  Do it both with music and without.

[ledger_lines]

Aside from "visualizing" yourself playing it, try actually playing it in your mind!  Close your eyes (or leave them open) and try to "feel" every note in the piece that you play as you hear it in your head.  It's very difficult, time consuming, and exhausting but i've found that it helps immensely with memory.  Do it both with music and without.

Your right, it is extremely exhausting! I didn't realise how much I rely on finger and hand position in relation to the keyboard. Take away the keyboard and I get completely lost! Not very good if you want to learn a piece of music fast, but very very good for memorisation.

[mike_lang]

How much time you practice depends on 3 things I think.

1) You - You might practice for 6 hours straight and not progress. However, reducing to 3 hours with regular breaks might actually increase your progress. We all have very different brains that respond to different practice techniques.
2) The Music - If its a difficult piece, or your learning lots of pieces you might have to practice more.
3) The Performance - Is this a performance for you gran or are you at the Royal Albert Hall? lol.

Based on these 3 factors, my practice times varies allot. I never have a fixed amount of time.

Ledger

That's right, much depends on you, and the music, but I think it destroys one's artistic integrity to decide that certain occasions are worth less practice.  Think about the standard the music demands, not what the people in the audience demand . . .

[ledger_lines]

Ah! Very true 

[mike_lang]

Your right, it is extremely exhausting! I didn't realise how much I rely on finger and hand position in relation to the keyboard. Take away the keyboard and I get completely lost! Not very good if you want to learn a piece of music fast, but very very good for memorisation.

Actually, that reminds me of something my current teacher said in studio class - many memory lapses can be traced back to a faulty or indeterminate fingering.

[sjeon]

 Rubinstein believed that a foremost danger for young pianists is to practice too much. Rubinstein regularly advised that young piano students should practice no more than three hours a day, at the most. "It is not so good, in a musical way, to overpractice. When you do, the music seems to come out of your pocket. If you play with a feeling of 'Oh, I know this,' you play without that little drop of fresh blood that is necessary -and the audience feels it." Of his own practice methods he said, "At every concert I leave a lot to the moment. I must have the unexpected, the unforeseen. I want to risk, to dare. I want to be surprised by what comes out. I want to enjoy it more than the audience. That way the music can bloom anew. It's like making love. The act is always the same, but each time it's different."[7]  -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Rubinstein
What Rubinstein said about practicing

[mike_lang]

Rubinstein believed that a foremost danger for young pianists is to practice too much. Rubinstein regularly advised that young piano students should practice no more than three hours a day, at the most. "It is not so good, in a musical way, to overpractice. When you do, the music seems to come out of your pocket. If you play with a feeling of 'Oh, I know this,' you play without that little drop of fresh blood that is necessary -and the audience feels it." Of his own practice methods he said, "At every concert I leave a lot to the moment. I must have the unexpected, the unforeseen. I want to risk, to dare. I want to be surprised by what comes out. I want to enjoy it more than the audience. That way the music can bloom anew. It's like making love. The act is always the same, but each time it's different."[7]  -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Rubinstein
What Rubinstein said about practicing

He's right in a certain sense, but I think that in order to dare with a reasonable chance of the desired result, a lot of technical security has to be in place which, like it or not, takes practice time.

 Now, that's not to say that there is a magic number of hours, but rather, that we should have a very clear idea of what overpracticing and underpracticing are, as two terms very open to misunderstanding and often carelessly thrown around.

I think what Rubinstein is pointing out is that there is a very delicate balance between the control born of practice and spontaneity that comes with freshness.  The biggest challenge is for us to practice in a way such that we put in the hours that are needed - IN OUR INDIVIDUAL CASES - and yet maintain the excitement of the first reading.

Mike

[countrymath]

I think practicing for 4-6 hours is more then enough. But you should STUDY all the time you have. Music is not only about playing, is also about history, theory, harmony, and for pop musicians, music production, mixing, recording, a lot of styles, etc.

[ledger_lines]

I know a professional concert pianist how doesn't practice for more that 3 hours a day. Then again, she seems to learn music very quickly, which is something ive never been able to do.

[mike_lang]

I know a professional concert pianist how doesn't practice for more that 3 hours a day. Then again, she seems to learn music very quickly, which is something ive never been able to do.

It really depends on how much experience you have; the more music you have studied, the more quickly you will learn a new piece (although this may not necessary apply in contemporary music).  Also, I think the technical foundation established during childhood has quite a bit to do with it.

Nevertheless, we can always be more efficient in how we practice -- one key is to use the right tool for the right job!  (HS practice, dotted rhythms, and slow practice are not cure-alls; they each have their place)  Sometimes necessity, i.e. being a professional pianist, forces us into economizing . . .

Mike

[scott13]

For me it's 1 1/2 hours in the morning on anything technical i feel needs improving. This normally involves scales, arpeggios, trills, etc.

Then in the evening is between 4-5 hours on pieces (i learn up to 6 at a time hence the high practice times).

I find by splitting my time, it means when i sit down in the evenings, my fingers are already warmed up and i can focus entirely on the pieces themselves. I have learnt a Clementi sonata in 2 weeks (up to 80% of tempo) so this method works wonders for me. I also love playing (best part of my day) therefore it never feels like 5 hours, more like 1-2.

[mcdiddy1]

Depends on who you are, the level of the piece and what your goal is. If you are a concert pianist and have a huge background of practice, there are fewer huge challenges so your practice time would be considerible smaller than someone taking up piano for the first time.

Also depends on where you are in learning your piece, are you practicing getting the right notes, memorizing, musicality, fingering. What is your goal? For me the practice seccession where I am learning notes are much longer than when I am practicing for musicality ( for an advanced piece of course).

What is the level of the piece? There is a big difference in learning Fur Elise and the Pathetique Sonata. and even if you are an advance player, it would take a longer time to master the Sonata because the diffulty level is higher.

It is better to achieve quality in your practice rather than time. If you can get more done in 30 mins rather than 2 hours then that is how much time you need.  Also what you do in your practice matters as well, (using the meternome, counting out loud, practice techniques, spot checking, memorizing, focusing on the correct movements/ techniques..etc)/

You really want to keep all these concepts in mind more than time limits because a magic number like and hour or two can be time wasted.

[chopinlover23]

I guess it depends on the list of repertoire, if you;ve got a large list try breaking it down or practicing only pieces on one era of music, a day at a time (e.g. Baroque- Monday,Classical-Tuesday,Romantic-Wednesday....) then learn new music.

Just a suggestion.... 

[gerryjay]

Nowadays I don't have all the time I want to practice, only 2 to 3 hours each day. During my undergraduate, I used to study up to 8 hours, 10-12 in the weekends, and it was a great time indeed. However, I think that a balanced daily practice may be around 4 to 6 hours, depending - as others pointed out - in the amount of repertory, the moment of each work (reading, solving technique issues, mastering), and the upmost goal (fun, recitals, concerts with orchestra, competitions).

The fundamental question, I think, is to have a balanced schedule. You must remember that listening, analysis, reading articles and books, researching are essential parts of a proper study. Also, the balance between playing complete works and developing the smallest chunks where there is a problem is important. And I never work more than three days in a row with the same schedule: the brain gets lazy if you do so.

A final though: the remaining hours of your day are as important to your music development as the hours you spend on the piano or studying music somehow. Perhaps even more: 8 hours of a very good sleep time, adequate meals (and time to enjoy them), at least a couple of hours to amuse yourself (a girl/boyfriend is a very good idea), one hour of walking/running/doing-some-exercise. I consider all that as part of my musical practice.

Best regards,
Jay.

[mrvladimirhorowitz]

It is not true. Richter didn't practice 12-14 hours a day! Did you see or read interviews with him? He told that he practise about 3-4 hours a day, sometimes two days before recital he practise all day, but it was really rare.

Im afraid to say this but Richter was lying, ask his wife, she will tell you he put an alarm clock on the piano and practiced 12 hours a day. I think nowadays 6 or 7 hours is enough, but ofcourse it depends on whether it is good quality practice?

[pianoplayjl]

If you are talking about amateurs then I'd say the minimum is 1.5 hours.

[49410enrique]

in addition to aptitude and  skill set, and repertoire, id also say it's goal dependent. are we tryn to learn music at or below our capabilities? this would probably require less work than pushing the envelope to improve  and be able to handle larger, more difficult and/or mature works, amelieration of technical and interpretive ability would probably necessitate even more work and thus probably more time at the keyboard.

[pianoplayjl]

Approaching an exam, I think the ideal exam practice time should be 1.5-2 hours.