How important is the "conscious" part of our brain vs. the subconscious part?

[Derek]

from wikipedia:

Neurons in the brain

The number of neurons in the brain varies dramatically from species to species.[22] One estimate puts the human brain at about 100 billion (1011) neurons and 100 trillion (1014) synapses.[22] Another estimate is 86 billion neurons, of which 16.3 billion are in the cerebral cortex, and 69 billion in the cerebellum.[23] By contrast, the nematode worm Caenorhabditis elegans has just 302 neurons making it an ideal experimental subject as scientists have been able to map all of the organism's neurons. The fruit fly Drosophila melanogaster, a common subject in biological experiments, has around 100,000 neurons and exhibits many complex behaviors. Many properties of neurons, from the type of neurotransmitters used to ion channel composition, are maintained across species, allowing scientists to study processes occurring in more complex organisms in much simpler experimental systems.

I thought this was pretty interesting. The cerebral cortex apparently is quite small compared to the cerebellum. This leads me to believe, in conjunction with the experience of learning various things in life, that the conscious faculty really is only a goal setter, a conductor---not the seat of real knowledge. Sometimes I think the real challenge in learning something is getting the conductor out of the way and letting the 69 billion neurons of the cerebellum do its magic.

[ted]

You are probably right. The puzzle to me has always been why experience, consciousness, as we intuitively feel it, should exist at all. I gather from recent reading that this is known as the "hard" problem of consciousness, and what you are talking about, brain properties and so on, is the "soft" problem of consciousness. It is only since retirement that I have found time to read about all this.

[keyboardclass]

There's no real need for consciousness - its a kinda icing on the cake (which annoyingly is constantly interfering).

[emill]

I thought this was pretty interesting. The cerebral cortex apparently is quite small compared to the cerebellum. This leads me to believe, in conjunction with the experience of learning various things in life, that the conscious faculty really is only a goal setter, a conductor---not the seat of real knowledge. Sometimes I think the real challenge in learning something is getting the conductor out of the way and letting the 69 billion neurons of the cerebellum do its magic.

HHmmnnnn  .......  In terms of volume and size, the cerebral cortex is far bigger than the cerebellum in humans. The cortex is the SOUL of the human being. It subserves, emotions, memory, feeling, insight, fear, anger, happiness etc.. It controls gross muscular movement of all muscles, it makes us hear and see .... makes us the senses of taste, smell and feel.  Without the cerebral cortex one's existence is vegetative.  

It is rather qualitative rather than quantitative ..... the cerebellum controls finer movement, balance and equilibrium.  It refines muscular coordination, precision, and accurate timing.  "It receives input from sensory systems and from other parts of the brain and spinal cord, and integrates these inputs to fine tune motor activity.

Because of this fine-tuning function, damage to the cerebellum does not cause paralysis, but instead produces disorders in fine movement, equilibrium, posture, and motor learning." It does NOT cause one to stop feeling, tasting, hearing, loving, remembering, responding to emotions, being angry, being happy etc...etc... the very essence of being a human being.

On the other hand, damage to the cerebral cortex (depending on the area involved) may cause total amnesia, coma, paralysis, deafness, blindness, mood swings, violent behavior, docile behavior, total lack of concern or emotions, disorientation etc.....  

The ability to learn and appreciate is almost 100% dependent on the integrity of the cerebral cortex ... like in mathematics and the languages when it does not involve finer muscular coordination ... Playing the piano will be impossible with a damaged cerebellum as the skill requires finer muscular movement and a lot of coordination with the cerebral cortex .... the eyes, ears, memory and motor centers.  However.... reading sheet music .... appreciating the composition and feeling happy about it and hearing a performance do not require the cerebellum.

There's no real need for consciousness - its a kinda icing on the cake (which annoyingly is constantly interfering).

Human beings respond to the environment ....  to everything through one's consciousness ....  we see, smell, taste, hear, feel ......  fall in love, become jealous, become happy, become ecstatic through our consciousness.....  remove it then you might as well be dead.

[ongaku_oniko]

All I can say is, I don't believe that people, or in fact the world, is as simple as scientists hope to believe.

I'm not religious, nor do I believe in ghosts and such, but I firmly believe that there MUST be something, something other than simple chemical reactions that allows us to think, feel, live. I refuse to believe that I am a robot.

[Derek]

I wonder if consciousness is an integral part of how neural networks work, and all neural networks have some degree of consciousness but that it simply increases in complexity and ability to abstract as the size of the brain increases? In other words, from what little I know about neural nets, there have to be "training sessions" that go into making most of the neural net perform a task. Thus, there has to be some part of the neural net that can identify goals and actions and things to learn etc. It seems to me this must be role that consciousness plays. Maybe during sleep, consciousness turns off completely and the rest of the brain just "runs through" what it has been taught or guided through by the consciousness.

This reminded me of an interesting case of someone I knew several years ago. He was a big fan of Bach's music, but during the day when he was awake he was not able to compose. Yet, he told me he would frequently dream up original chorales in the style of Bach while he was asleep. We know that consciousness is completely out of the way during sleep. This seems to me a good example that if one allows conscious thinking to play too heavy a role in creative activities---creativity itself will be stifled. The conductor should not be a tyrant...but a conductor that trusts the orchestra =)

[keyboardclass]

I think you're marginalizing the non-conscious - like it or not I'm quite certain it has its own agenda (and thoughts, maybe even feelings).