Advice about Rachmaninoff pieces

[_nisa_]

Hi all,

I would like some advice about Rachmaninoff pieces I hesitate to learn.
From him, I play some of the most known preludes:
-Op 3 no 2
-Op 23 no 5 (which I finished to learn a few days ago and now is in a maturing state)
-Op 32 no 5 (few bars are missing)

I am now looking at several other pieces from him:
-Prelude Op 32 no 10
-Prelude Op 32 no 12
-Moment musical 4

I am really confused about which one I should learn (I equally appreciate them...), however I have a major constraint: in September I will leave my country for several months and it will be difficult to study piano during this period (i will manage to get a piano though). So I am looking for a piece not too long to learn.
For information, the harder piece I play is the 23 5 which I began on November (so more or less 6 months from now).

Thanks for your answers. All the best,

_Nisa_

[_nisa_]

Hi,

Even indication about personal experience on these pieces can help. Don't hesitate,

_Nisa_

[pianowolfi]

Well I have played all of these except the moment musical no. 4 which admittedly scares me   I think that one will need a lot of time, so I'd go with op 32 no 12 and/or op 32, 10. Both are very rewarding and, of course nevertheless huge. Further you might want to look at the Preludes op 23, 3, 4,6 and 10, (I*love* no. 6 though I haven't played it yet) op 32 no 6 is very dark, short and furious, op 32,7 very cute and special. The Elegy might be an option too.

[_nisa_]

Hi Wolfi,

Thanks for your reply.
I share the same passion as you for the preludes (less for the Elegy, sorry). A real poetic trip into the piano world when listening to recordings from Ashkenazy, Lugansky, etc...
Here is my opinion about the pieces in terms of difficulty (it is what i found on the Internet (in which my trust is limited) and by studying the sheets (is that objective?)) :

The Moment musical 4 also scares me because the rythm is really hard and the polyphony seems hard to express. However, it is repetitive, maybe meaning that it is not that long to learn. There is also a thread on Pianostreet where the Moment musical 4 is compared to Liebestraum from F. Liszt. Obviously, my conclusion is that the Rachmaninoff is harder, but a few person also said it wasn't that hard...

The prelude 32 10 doesn't seem that easy :
-the chords in the beginning and the triple chords in "l'istesso tempo" are quite fast and not easy to get (I tried), but maybe it comes easily with training?
-the musicality, especially in the middle chords section is great but demands a lot of control
-the cadenza seems pretty hard!

About the 32 12 :
-the rythm reminds me the Moment musical...
-the middle section "a tempo" RH seems also demanding
-some compare it to the 32 5... I do not understand why...

Here you have everything that makes me undecised. If you could add some precisions about the pieces you play, it will be helpful (what about the difficulties i identified, are there others, what is your overall recommendation, ...).

Thanks,

_Nisa_

[pianovlad1996]

Hello! 
I want to ask you something about Prelude Op.23 No.5. What pedaling is the best in measures 17-20. My teacher said to swich the pedal after the first anapest in measure 17 and then use it again after measure 18 but I saw Gilels, Lisitsa, Gavrilov and other big pianists using the pedal one measure (17 then 18) and now I feel weird . I don t know what pedaling should I use. Sorry for my english. I m russian.

[_nisa_]

Hi Vlad,

First, don't apologize about your English, I am not an natural English speaker either, but hey we are here to talk about music whatever our level in English

I don't know the sheet you are working on, mine is Bossey&Hawkes and no pedalling is indicated. As often it is up to the pianist to determine its pedalling. I also noted that different piano, different rooms give different acoustics and therefore necessitates to adjust the pedalling. So I guess this is one reason why many sheets doesn't include pedalling.
Anyway, I always first try to play the sheet as indicated and the groups of 3 chords are notated staccato on my sheet. So I first tried without pedalling these chords. But it is all a matter of interpretation and I discovered these measures could be interpreted as the culminant point of russian nationalism in the piece (you may not agree of course, this is my vision of the piece). I that case, I wanted something more impressive and heat-taking and tried to add pedal during each measure (starting from the accented chord until just before the next accented chord). So finally I don't play the staccati chords staccato any longer. But as I said different piano and different rooms give different acoustics, and on my old Zimmermann upright, which reverberates too much, I am forced to pedal less. What I found not to destructurate the music, is to pedal twice in each measures: the first pedalling during the "staccati descending chords" and the other during the "tenuti ascending chords", it preserves the imposing descending "echos" while keeping the ascending melody proud and powerful.

Hope my amateur point of view helps,

_Nisa_

[pianovlad1996]

Thank you for your advice very much Nisa. It helped me very much. Now I'm a bit more relaxed about that passage. Good luck.

[_nisa_]

You're welcome!

I also have to admit that this passage is to me the most difficult of the piece... the fast ascending chords don't come easily under my fingers and it required (and requires) a lot of slow repetitions for me to play it decently.

[chopinaninoff]

Of course, as you understand, Rachmaninoff's 4th moment musical is one of the most challenging pieces he wrote. Once you even "perfect" it at home, anything is likely to happen on the concert stage/hall. I suggest learning the Opus 32 no 12 prelude, I learned it not too long ago. it sounds harder than it really is, but it fits under the hand quite nicely and will always impress audiences. The opus 32 no 10 is a bit more difficult to understand. Rachmaninoff himself said that the prelude was about "a return from exile". Its not that challenging, except that one little cadenza that must be played lightly like a bird flying off. I would suggest learning the op 32 no 12, it goes great with the g major prelude op 32 no 5...They are very similar in my opinion. Stay away from the moment musical, if you are going to be away for months at a time. This piece requires a lot of attention and dedication.
best,
Richard

[_nisa_]

Of course, as you understand, Rachmaninoff's 4th moment musical is one of the most challenging pieces he wrote.

  Really?
It "looks" a lot easier than many Etudes-Tableaux or Preludes.

Fortunately, I tried the B section of the Op 32 No 12  (page 3) and didn't find it that difficult, it is just a matter of finding the good hand positions. I am already half way into this prelude (which is fun to play by the way), and your advice comforts me in my choice.

Thank you for opening my eyes on these hidden difficulties.

_Nisa_

[chopinaninoff]

Well the thing you must remember is...Its not how easy you can play it at home..its how easy it will be to play on the concert stage. Most often pianists can pick pieces that can performed "perfectly" in the practice room, but once you get on the stage your mind may go totally blank. Like take this young man for instance.

&feature=related i am 100 percent sure he worked his ass off 10 hours a day for years to perfect this piece at home, but once getting onto the big Tchaikovsky competition, he totally forgets his place. Am I making sense? I think I worded this a bit wrongly haha. I do not mean to discourage you, no way!
Richard