Und Ob Die Wolke -- Weber, Singing and Playing (snippet)

[m1469]

Hello.  Well, this comes from a kind of achy wanting to sing and missing the stage a bit.  I absolutely want to sing for listeners here, and I love to be able to do so at least in this way ... but, of course, it's a little different to actually be in an Hall and filling that space up as part of the instrument.  Slightly unfortunately, I became a little obssessed with this in order to post even just this portion, but I've had trouble moving this "project" past this portion and I just can't wait to post until I finally do.  There are a million things I'd like to do better, but I'm striving to do more than just take a step forward with this and by posting it doing so, but it's like my whole self and life needs it. 

So, here you have a portion of Weber's Und Ob Die Wolke, performed on piano and in singing by me alone here, in my living room .

[pianowolfi]

Wow, again, what a wonderful voice!  
Did you ever think of singing Wagner?

It's somehow exciting to hear you sing in my language!

Don't be afraid of the consonants, like the k in "Wolke" and the "t" "r" and "rt" at the end of words like "Welt", "aller" and "dort", they can be quite "hard", they actually need to be very distinct. The "ü" sounds a bit too much like "ee", it should be shaped a bit more towards "oo", but not too much. It's important to speak the double "n" in "Sonne". Not "Sone". And it's important to speak as well the "s" as the "z" in "Himmelszelt". "Z is a hard consonant in German, like "ts". I guess the soft "ch" (in "nicht") is hard to pronounce for English speaking people, it sounds similar to the "h" in "hee hee"
"L" is pronounced more as in "like", never as in "well".

I think this Cavatina suits you very well!

[littletune]

How can you sing sooo nice and sooo great??! I wish this was longer!   But I mean it's really cool like this too   

What's the difference between singing like this (I mean opera singing) and the way people usually sing? Is it like completely different? Is it as different as speaking and singing?  are there a lot of different ways of singing? (Sorry for asking so much) 

[m1469]

Wow, again, what a wonderful voice!  

Thanks, Wofli!

Did you ever think of singing Wagner?

Well, sort of.  I think it's been mentioned to me before, but I don't recall ever having looked at any, actually.  I know it's supposed to be big, and I feel like big is the right direction for me.  Do any in particular come to mind to you?  I'm very open to suggestions .

It's somehow exciting to hear you sing in my language!

I'm glad, because of course it makes me a little nervous  .

Don't be afraid of the consonants, like the k in "Wolke" and the "t" "r" and "rt" at the end of words like "Welt", "aller" and "dort", they can be quite "hard", they actually need to be very distinct. The "ü" sounds a bit too much like "ee", it should be shaped a bit more towards "oo", but not too much. It's important to speak the double "n" in "Sonne". Not "Sone". And it's important to speak as well the "s" as the "z" in "Himmelszelt". "Z is a hard consonant in German, like "ts". I guess the soft "ch" (in "nicht") is hard to pronounce for English speaking people, it sounds similar to the "h" in "hee hee"
"L" is pronounced more as in "like", never as in "well".

Yes, I can hear that I was lazy on the consonants, but more than that, I think I have not been sure exactly how much to give.  I am still working on singing through them and not letting it stop the actual singing, but okay, something specific ... this is good.  Thank you very much for your help on diction and pronunciation!  Can I ask a couple of questions?  Sometimes I wonder if it is OK to flip/roll the "r" a little like in dort.  Is that German?  It is helpful for me if I can, but I'm not sure if I'm thinking too much Italian ... I *think* I may have been told it's okay, but I can't quite remember (it's been quite awhile since I've had coachings/lessons).  Also, so in Sonne and with the double "n" ... I don't know if you know Italian pronunciation (which I am better at), but it is something to be aware of there, as well, and I didn't quite realize that I must do so in German, as well.  So, is it basically spending a little extra time on it?  

Is it too much if I post myself speaking the German?  

I think this Cavatina suits you very well!

Yes, I like it quite a bit!  I don't know what other arias are in the role, but hopefully I can get myself into looking it up a bit.  Thank you so much for listening, you know, it's really exciting to me to post these here .

[m1469]

How can you sing sooo nice and sooo great??! I wish this was longer!   But I mean it's really cool like this too    

Thanks, Littletune!  That is very nice of you .  Of course, I listen and hear so many things that make me cringe a bit, but overall, I couldn't stop myself, I just had to sing and I just had to feel like I am singing for people here.

What's the difference between singing like this (I mean opera singing) and the way people usually sing?

Well, even within what is considered Opera singing there are varieties of singing, for sure.  I consider myself to be "studying" what is considered Bel Canto style, which isn't just about how it sounds (though obviously that's a product of technique) but also about how a person physically uses their body to produce the sound.  I definitely connect with that the most, hands down, but there are things that I have learned under different contexts which I still use, as well.  What I am doing is actually something which is funnily very fundamental to us, but can be tricky to learn.  But, the same muscles I use to sing like this, I also use in piano playing, I *can* use in running and walking, and in weight lifting.  It is very much about learning how to use your core, and I am becoming convinced that we can generally use our core in almost everything we do .

So, what people "normally" do is all sorts of things.  The biggest difference, in my opinion, would be not using the core muscles to help support the voice.  Next would be to not know how to really use the breath (which is intrinsically tied to the actual singing aspect of singing), and then there is a world of various affectations which people use, too.  The idea behind Bel Canto singing is to be using your very own, natural voice, and to use your entire body and breath (and the world ... hee hee) to support it ... or, to be part of it, even.

Is it like completely different? Is it as different as speaking and singing?  :- are there a lot of different ways of singing? (Sorry for asking so much)  

 

Yes, sure, there are loads of different ways of singing.  I'm sure there are people who would argue that if you don't sing a particular way, it's not really singing  , but people go ahead and let it rip whether everybody agrees with it or not.  I think maybe I answered this, too, in my paragraph above.

Thanks for listening .

[pianowolfi]

Thanks, Wofli!
 

Well, sort of.  I think it's been mentioned to me before, but I don't recall ever having looked at any, actually.  I know it's supposed to be big, and I feel like big is the right direction for me.  Do any in particular come to mind to you?  I'm very open to suggestions .

Isolde?   Isolden's Liebestod is one of the most intense arias

I'm glad, because of course it makes me a little nervous  .
 

Yes, I can hear that I was lazy on the consonants, but more than that, I think I have not been sure exactly how much to give.  I am still working on singing through them and not letting it stop the actual singing, but okay, something specific ... this is good.  Thank you very much for your help on diction and pronunciation!  Can I ask a couple of questions?  Sometimes I wonder if it is OK to flip/roll the "r" a little like in dort.  Is that German?  It is helpful for me if I can, but I'm not sure if I'm thinking too much Italian ... I *think* I may have been told it's okay, but I can't quite remember (it's been quite awhile since I've had coachings/lessons).  Also, so in Sonne and with the double "n" ... I don't know if you know Italian pronunciation (which I am better at), but it is something to be aware of there, as well, and I didn't quite realize that I must do so in German, as well.  So, is it basically spending a little extra time on it?

Yes roll the "r" like in Italian, that's not only okay, it's actually required in opera. "Sonne" like Italian "nonna" or "tonno", yes
You know I am only a beginner at singing so I'd be lost without the consonants and I am happy that we have so many  

Is it too much if I post myself speaking the German?  

No it's not too much, please post

[m1469]

Isolde?   Isolden's Liebestod is one of the most intense arias

Wonderful, I will take a look at it .  Thanks for the suggestion!

Okay, this is a little embarrassing, but super duper fun, too .

First of all, I treated Sonne, the double "n", like I would in Italian and so I am just wondering if for sure that what you hear is the right way?  Also, there are a couple things I am not sure of.  In Italian, ALL double consonants get the same kind of treatment that you will hear me treat the double "n" in Sonne.  Is that the same with in German?  So, in Himmels, should it be that same sort of double "m" sound?  Or in hulle (sorry, I don't know how to type an umlaut)?

Also, I am not positive on the letter "i" when you pronounce it as an I (capital in IPA) to signify the sound like in the English word in, or when you pronounce it as an i (lower case in IPA) to signify the sound like in pizza.

So, I think for Himmels, it is the IPA capitol I and in nicht it is the lower case IPA i.  And, I think those are correct, but I am not sure about Wille.

Anyway, so far this is just the words that I've posted here in song.  Thank you .

[m1469]

It's somehow exciting to hear you sing in my language!

"L" is pronounced more as in "like", never as in "well".

Oh, I just re-read this.  Maybe you know that it really actually matters quite a bit to me that I do this right ... I am fascinated by languages .  But, I do wonder now, if I've done the "L" correctly?  I think that your sentence there answers my question about the double LL in hulle.  And, I think maybe I did the "bend" of liebend a little bit wrong.  If I post the spoken words again, I'll fix that.

[littletune]

This is so cool!  Now I wanna speak in German too!!!    But I don't have such a nice voice as m1469!!    ... m1469 your voice sounds so nice when you're speaking too! everything you do is always so nice!! Now I'm jealous!    and your German sounds cool too To me it sounds more like Swiss German in some ways Oh and I think that "L" should be a little different. But Wolfi will tell you how it should be anyway, will Wolfi record himself saying all this too? 

Thanks for answering my questions m1469!  Well when I said how people normally sing I meant the way pop singers sing or singers in musicals I guess cause that sounds a lot different than opera singing.  Well thanks this is really interesting   

[pianowolfi]

Wonderful, I will take a look at it .  Thanks for the suggestion!

Okay, this is a little embarrassing, but super duper fun, too .

First of all, I treated Sonne, the double "n", like I would in Italian and so I am just wondering if for sure that what you hear is the right way?  Also, there are a couple things I am not sure of.  In Italian, ALL double consonants get the same kind of treatment that you will hear me treat the double "n" in Sonne.  Is that the same with in German?  So, in Himmels, should it be that same sort of double "m" sound?  Or in hulle (sorry, I don't know how to type an umlaut)?

Also, I am not positive on the letter "i" when you pronounce it as an I (capital in IPA) to signify the sound like in the English word in, or when you pronounce it as an i (lower case in IPA) to signify the sound like in pizza.

So, I think for Himmels, it is the IPA capitol I and in nicht it is the lower case IPA i.  And, I think those are correct, but I am not sure about Wille.

Anyway, so far this is just the words that I've posted here in song.  Thank you .

Hi m1469

So, yes the double consonants in Himmel, Wille and Sonne are treated the same way.

'Himmel' and 'nicht' have both an i like in 'in'. Whereas 'die' and 'Liebe' (when you come to the second verse) have a long i like in pizza (iː) or 'bee'. I am not sure about the IPA  I though...the example I found in Wiki doesn't sound like iː   more like e in Amerika, just longer  

I have attached two sound files. In the first I tried to speak the whole text and in the second one I go into some of the particular words.

I have just one problem: I sorta can't get fully rid of my Swiss accent, though it's not as strong as some other Swiss people's accent because I am half German, but nevertheless it's there because I have always lived in Switzerland.

And btw of course it's not embarrassing, German is a very difficult language and you are already doing a quite good job And yes, I agree it's fun

[m1469]

woah ... my head is spinning with funness!!!  Thank you so much, this is incredible!  Even though we've all been on this forum for awhile now, I'm a little blown away that things can be shared like this .

I can't be here again until later and things get a little nuts for the next 36 hours, but I had to listen and respond a little right away!  Littletune, if you want to speak, join in (I separated what has been spoken already)!

Und ob die Wolke sie verhülle, from Der Freischütz

Und ob die Wolke sie verhülle,
Die Sonne bleibt am Himmelszelt;
Es waltet dort ein heil'ger Wille,
Nicht blindem Zufall dient die Welt!
Das Auge, ewig rein und klar,
Nimmt aller Wesen liebend wahr!

**************************
Für mich auch wird der Vater sorgen,
Dem kindlich Herz und Sinn vertraut,
Und wär' dies auch mein letzter Morgen,
Rief' mich sein Vaterwort als Braut:
Sein Auge, ewig rein und klar,
Nimmt meiner auch mit Liebe wahr!

And, just in case, I will site where I grabbed the text from, since I already admitted to not knowing how to type an umlaut.  I got it from the aria data base online.

[littletune]

Wow cool! 
Thanks for writing the text m1469!

[m1469]

.

[m1469]

Hi m1469

So, yes the double consonants in Himmel, Wille and Sonne are treated the same way.

'Himmel' and 'nicht' have both an i like in 'in'. Whereas 'die' and 'Liebe' (when you come to the second verse) have a long i like in pizza (iː) or 'bee'. I am not sure about the IPA  I though...the example I found in Wiki doesn't sound like iː  :- more like e in Amerika, just longer  :-

I have attached two sound files. In the first I tried to speak the whole text and in the second one I go into some of the particular words.

I have just one problem: I sorta can't get fully rid of my Swiss accent, though it's not as strong as some other Swiss people's accent because I am half German, but nevertheless it's there because I have always lived in Switzerland.

And btw of course it's not embarrassing, German is a very difficult language and you are already doing a quite good job And yes, I agree it's fun

I have to tell you, I think I am feeling motivated like I've never felt before with all of this.  Thank you so much for you help.  I can't explain how it impacted me to hear the words spoken in a native tongue ... it was literally like I could hear your own whole world, and even so many other things that are hard to explain.  For whatever reason, it actually blew my mind.

I'm feeling ready for Wagner.  I'm going to put your recordings on my mp3 player and listen to them at will -- and I'll practice and absorb and come back in true Germanship.

[pianowolfi]

Very good, I am happy it helps you I'll try the second verse too. And btw this is a heck of a beautiful cavatina, text-and music-wise!

[m1469]

.

[pianowolfi]

Hi m1469

That brought me to an idea. I attach verse 2 in two spoken versions, the first one is more how I naturally speak, the second one more towards how I'd speak it for singing or for acting. My latter version sounds a bit artificial to me, but I think when you are singing (there is absolutely now way I'd try to sing this, LOL   ) it might also start to feel quite natural after a while.

Oh, and your "Wolke" and "verhülle" sounds much better and it actually sounds even better in the second version, language-wise

[littletune]

Thanks m1469!! That is a big difference! The second one kinda sounds like it's hard for you to sing... and the first one like it's really easy But how do you know how to do that? Do you just know since forever?  

Oh... well... I'm not jealous like in a bad way...   I mean I'm glad you're so cool   ... just you know... I don't know  

Oh maybe I will post myself speaking that German text, cause I recorded it   Both parts...  

[littletune]

Oh Wolfi, I will post me speaking too  and I better not listen to your second verse before I post (so I won't hear everything I'm saying wrong  )... and I sound weird anyway... and I don't know why I was speaking so fast in the second verse... and I sound like a boy! But I think I'll post it anyway cause this is really fun!!!     

[littletune]

So here's me speaking   

[john90]

Littletune, well done. It takes courage to post a voice. More than I have. Littletune, I could understand a lot, but it was a little too fast for me to hear all the words clearly. My German is not that good, I am trying to learn since I moved to Switzerland, so thanks everyone for a beautiful lesson!

[Wolfi, if you see this I have sent you a message on Pianostreet about Valentina L]

[pianowolfi]

[Wolfi, if you see this I have sent you a message on Pianostreet about Valentina L]

Hi John, sure, I got that message, didn't you get my answer? Maybe you have your notification turned off?

[john90]

Maybe you have your notification turned off?

Yep, dead right! Thanks.

[m1469]

Und ob die Wolke sie verhülle, from Der Freischütz

Für mich auch wird der Vater sorgen,

I have just noticed a discrepency here in the libretto as was posted on the site I got it from.  At least, it is different than in my text in my edition.  In my edition, auch and wird are in the reverse order, so it reads in my text:

Für mich wird auch der ...

I need to do a "word for word" translation again (I've done it before but it's been awhile now).  I want to take this step myself, and I can find translations online, but I want to eventually even speak German and it helps me to better understand everything about the whole endeavor when I do it myself ... but, I'm wondering if I can post it here, too?

So, I don't know if it makes a huge difference in the meaning of the language to have those words in a different order or not, and if you have any strong thoughts on that, Wolfi, but I just thought I'd point that out.

I am currently studying your clip, Wolfi, of the second vs.  .

[littletune]

Littletune, well done. It takes courage to post a voice. More than I have. Littletune, I could understand a lot, but it was a little too fast for me to hear all the words clearly. My German is not that good, I am trying to learn since I moved to Switzerland, so thanks everyone for a beautiful lesson!

Thank you yes I know it was too fast (specailly the second one) today when I listened to it I didn't even know what all the words I was saying were anymore! and I was thinking I should maybe say the text more like I know what I'm saying not just like: oh blah blah blah   maybe I'll try it again.  

Oh m1469 I saw that you deleted some things... I hope I haven't said something wrong or something    

Wolfi, do you think you could say all this the way you would say it in Swiss German? Or would it be the same?  

[pianowolfi]

I have just noticed a discrepency here in the libretto as was posted on the site I got it from.  At least, it is different than in my text in my edition.  In my edition, auch and wird are in the reverse order, so it reads in my text:

Für mich wird auch der ...

I need to do a "word for word" translation again (I've done it before but it's been awhile now).  I want to take this step myself, and I can find translations online, but I want to eventually even speak German and it helps me to better understand everything about the whole endeavor when I do it myself ... but, I'm wondering if I can post it here, too?

So, I don't know if it makes a huge difference in the meaning of the language to have those words in a different order or not, and if you have any strong thoughts on that, Wolfi, but I just thought I'd point that out.

I am currently studying your clip, Wolfi, of the second vs.  .

There seem to exist both versions. I have downloaded two different scores from IMSLP and one says "wird auch" and the other one reverse. I think you can very well stick to your edition. It would make a slight difference, as the "auch"("also") might relate more to Agathe when it comes first, and more to the father when it comes second. Perhaps there is somebody who has an Urtext who can help out with this? Personally I would prefer the version in your edition, it makes more sense to me, it also goes more naturally with the flow of the language.

Yes please post your literal translation when you're done

[m1469]

Oh m1469 I saw that you deleted some things... I hope I haven't said something wrong or something  :-  :-

It is more a sense that perhaps I misstepped, and maybe shouldn't have posted what I did.  Though, Wolfi's clip about spoken German vs. sung German is valuable.

[pianowolfi]

Wolfi, do you think you could say all this the way you would say it in Swiss German? Or would it be the same?  

In Swiss German it would sound totally different. In my clips I am speaking high German but with a Swiss accent.

I have tried to translate a bit:

[littletune]

It is more a sense that perhaps I misstepped, and maybe shouldn't have posted what I did.  Though, Wolfi's clip about spoken German vs. sung German is valuable.

Oh ok... well if I ever say or do something wrong (like talk too much about things that don't have anything to do with your thread or something) just tell me. 

In Swiss German it would sound totally different. In my clips I am speaking high German but with a Swiss accent.

I have tried to translate a bit:

Thanks Wolfi for doing that! Sounds cool! 

[m1469]

Oh ok... well if I ever say or do something wrong (like talk too much about things that don't have anything to do with your thread or something) just tell me. 

Intention matters most to me.

[m1469]

Okay, this is an incredibly feeble attempt at my literal translation of the first verse ... well, my attempt has not actually been feeble, but my ability to complete it is left wanting.  I have a book by one of my coaches which I am using as a guide, and of course a dictionary, but I am obviously missing something, and even though my former teacher's book is very useful, there's so much info it's difficult to take it all in unless it's over months (and through numbers of translations) or by spending hours in deep study.  I haven't done the truly deep study quite yet, and it's been years since I've translated so I'm a bit rusty.  I will listen to your latest posting, Wolfi, and see what I can find, and I'll do more digging, too.  I'm obviously not making much sense out of this yet, either, that will come next:

Und ob            die Wolke  sie     verhülle,
And if/whether the Cloud it/they   ?? (I'm investigating)

Die Sonne bleibt              am       Himmelszelt;
the Sun    to remain/stay  on the  sky ... tent? (also still investigating)
                                    at the
                                    to the

Es waltet dort    ein     heil'ger Wille,
It   ??     there  a/an   ??        will (is this something like God's will?)

Nicht blindem Zufall                    dient    die Welt!
Not   blind     chance/coincidence this(?)  the world!

Das  Auge, ewig    rein und klar,
the  eye   eternal pure and clear,

Nimmt   aller   Wesen liebend wahr!
to take  all(?)  being  loving   true!

phwew.  I think the words I haven't found yet have some rule that I am missing.  If you hate to see me treating your beautiful language like this and feel you *must* say something, please only make it a clue or hint.  Otherwise, I'll keep digging!  And, I go now to listen to your latest recording!

But, I do have a little question.  Auge is eye, but it seems strange that it would be singular (even though I don't fully know the text yet) and I notice that die and das both seem to translate to the, so, in this case, would Das signify plural eyeS?  Otherwise, why not say die Auge?  

[m1469]

In Swiss German it would sound totally different. In my clips I am speaking high German but with a Swiss accent.

I have tried to translate a bit:

Ah, okay.  I thought you had already started talking about translation so I postponed myself listening to this clip until just now.  This is very interesting to me, to hear the differences between high German and Swiss German.  I will compare them in great detail, but I can obviously hear a difference already (though I couldn't articulate it in words since I don't know enough).

And, I found out that I was thinking incorrectly about the IPA symbols for the I and i.  I'll have to refresh my memory and maybe I'll clarify once I do, but the point is, don't be alarmed at having found something different than what I had been saying!

[m1469]

Wow, the second verse was quite a bit easier!

Okay, here is an attempt at the literal:

Für mich         wird          auch       der  Vater   sorgen,
For me/myself  become(s) also/too   the Father  to look after,
                    get(s), am
                    are, is

Dem kindlich  Herz   und  Sinn  vertraut,
the  childlike  heart  and  mind familiar

Und wär'         dies auch     mein       letzter Morgen,
and were/was  this also/too my/mine  latest  morning,

Rief'       mich         sein    Vaterwort          als               Braut:
ripeness  me/myself his/its  Father's word(?) as/like/when  bride
maturity

Sein Auge, ewig    rein und klar,
His   eye,  eternal pure and clear,

Nimmt   meiner    auch      mit   Liebe wahr!
to take  my/mine also/too  with love  true!

[rachfan]

Hi m1469,

Brava!  You have a very beautiful voice.    It would be gorgeous too in the Seven Early Songs by Alban Berg.  Another opportunity to practice German!  I hope you'll sing more for us.

David

[m1469]

Thank you very much, David!  I love that you have suggested pieces for me and I'll be sure to check them out .  This may be the most fun I've had with singing ... at least in a really long time .

[pianowolfi]

Okay, this is an incredibly feeble attempt at my literal translation of the first verse ... well, my attempt has not actually been feeble, but my ability to complete it is left wanting.  I have a book by one of my coaches which I am using as a guide, and of course a dictionary, but I am obviously missing something, and even though my former teacher's book is very useful, there's so much info it's difficult to take it all in unless it's over months (and through numbers of translations) or by spending hours in deep study.  I haven't done the truly deep study quite yet, and it's been years since I've translated so I'm a bit rusty.  I will listen to your latest posting, Wolfi, and see what I can find, and I'll do more digging, too.  I'm obviously not making much sense out of this yet, either, that will come next:

Und ob            die Wolke  sie     verhülle,
And if/whether the Cloud it/they   ?? (I'm investigating)

Die Sonne bleibt              am       Himmelszelt;
the Sun    to remain/stay  on the  sky ... tent? (also still investigating)
                                    at the
                                    to the

Es waltet dort    ein     heil'ger Wille,
It   ??     there  a/an   ??        will (is this something like God's will?)

Nicht blindem Zufall                    dient    die Welt!
Not   blind     chance/coincidence this(?)  the world!

Das  Auge, ewig    rein und klar,
the  eye   eternal pure and clear,

Nimmt   aller   Wesen liebend wahr!
to take  all(?)  being  loving   true!

phwew.  I think the words I haven't found yet have some rule that I am missing.  If you hate to see me treating your beautiful language like this and feel you *must* say something, please only make it a clue or hint.  Otherwise, I'll keep digging!  And, I go now to listen to your latest recording!

But, I do have a little question.  Auge is eye, but it seems strange that it would be singular (even though I don't fully know the text yet) and I notice that die and das both seem to translate to the, so, in this case, would Das signify plural eyeS?  Otherwise, why not say die Auge?  

Just short for now, I will come back to this tonight, since I'm all day off for my baby teaching seminar

"Das Auge" is a poetic form: "The Eye". "My eye looks at thee" for instance. Both eyes would be "die Augen".
"nimmt ......wahr"  is one of those compound verbs where one part can be at the beginning of a sentence and the other part at the end. The infinitive is "wahrnehmen" and means " to perceive"

Also a poetic term is "Himmelszelt" (yes that is actually "tent" but it's used more in the sense of "arch" or "firmament")
Gotta run, be back

Okay let's start from the beginning.

Und ob     die Wolke    sie verhülle
Even if      the cloud     mantles (or veils) it
Die Sonne bleibt   am Himmelszelt
 the sun remains   on/at the canopy/firmament

"Es waltet" might be translated as "there rules" or "there reigneth" and yes you are right that it refers to God's will because it says "ein heiliger Wille" =a holy will.


"nicht blindem Zufall dient die Welt":

 "dient" is 3d person simple present singular of the verb "dienen"=to serve
so " The world does not serve any blind chance/coincidence"

The eye, eternal pure and clear: very good

"Nimmt aller Wesen liebend wahr": As I said above "wahrnehmen" means perceive but your translation "taking something for true" is actually literal and shows how much philosophy can be hidden in the language

In the modern language we would say "Nimmt alle Wesen liebend wahr" but this is a very poetic and ancient form of German, so the verb "wahrnehmen" (to perceive) goes with the genitive

So "The (divine) eye, eternal pure and clear, perceives lovingly all beings"

[pianowolfi]

Wow, the second verse was quite a bit easier!

Okay, here is an attempt at the literal:

Für mich         wird          auch       der  Vater   sorgen,
For me/myself  become(s) also/too   the Father  to look after,
                    get(s), am
                    are, is

Here we have again an example of a compound tense. "Sorgen für" means "care for". "Look after" is right as well. But in this case you can't translate "wird" as "become", here it's only an auxiliary verb= (he) will/shall
"Er wird sorgen"= "He will/shall care/look after"

So I would translate this as "For me shall too the father (God) care"

Dem kindlich  Herz   und  Sinn  vertraut,
the  childlike  heart  and  mind familiar

"Dem" is an article and can be translated as "Whom" or "To Whom". It relates to the (God) father.
"vertraut" in this context doesn't mean "familiar". It is a verb and because of the poetical style the auxiliary verb is just left out! It actually would read "vertraut hat" and is present perfect of "vertrauen" ="to trust"

"Whom childlike heart and mind have trusted"

Und wär'         dies auch     mein       letzter Morgen,
and were/was  this also/too my/mine  latest  morning,

"And even if this was my last morning"

Rief'       mich         sein    Vaterwort          als               Braut:
ripeness  me/myself his/its  Father's word(?) as/like/when  bride
maturity

"Rief' " is a verb, subjunctive present of "rufen"="to call". The apostrophe stands for an omitted 'e'. (Ripeness/maturity would be "Reife", mature/ripe "reif")
 She wants to express that even if she would die this very day she still would follow the call of the (God) father to be the bride (of Max, I guess)

Sein Auge, ewig    rein und klar,
His   eye,  eternal pure and clear,

Nimmt   meiner    auch      mit   Liebe wahr!
to take  my/mine also/too  with love  true!

Yes, His eye perceives also her (very being) with love

[m1469]

Here we have again an example of a compound tense. "Sorgen für" means "care for". "Look after" is right as well. But in this case you can't translate "wird" with "become" as it's only an auxiliary verb= (he) will/shall
"Er wird sorgen"= "He will/shall care/look after"

So I would translate this as "For me shall too the father (God) care"

It is amazing to me what a difference that makes, to have a better sense of the one word "wird" here, as I would not have translated as you suggested based on what I had so far before that.  But, with thinking of wird as you say, I probably *could* have put something like that together.  Sometimes I am not sure at all if my struggle with understanding the meaning of the text is more my lack of knowing the Opera more in depth (or, well, knowing it well at all, at this point), or just my working with the language.  I suppose it can be some combination of both!

"Dem" is an article and can be translated as "Whom" or "To Whom". It relates to the (God) father.

Okay, thank you.  I even still am working out the English lingo which describes such things, like "article" and "auxilary" really have zero meaning to me -- and, I say this not as a direction to you, I say this especially because the book I am using as a guide is riddled with those words and I am supposed to *at least* know what those mean ... but I don't  .  And, then these layers of things I don't know and didn't pay attention to in school build up ... heh.  Anyway, the POINT is, that this is helpful because it gives me a little more focus.

"vertraut" in this context doesn't mean "familiar". It is a verb and because of the poetical style the auxiliary verb is just left out! It actually would read "vertraut hat" and is present perfect of "vertrauen" ="to trust"

There is a section in this book addressing words beginning with "ver" and other beginnings such as be-, durch-, etc., but I read that section several times, tried to understand it and came up with what I typed in.  It is a case where I don't think I ever would have understood from just that text and my own current ability, while you have a first-hand knowledge.  So, thank you, that makes so much more sense.

"Rief' " is a verb, subjunctive present of "rufen"="to call". The apostrophe stands for an omitted 'e'.

 I had figured out the part about the ommitted 'e', but for some reason I don't think I figured out the "rufen" part ... but after reading what you wrote, I see a trail I didn't know to follow within the dictionary I have and the German verbs book that I have.  However, I have no idea then how I came up with the translation that I did, because I don't know what I was thinking!

She wants to express that even if she would die this very day she still would follow the call of the (God) father to be the bride (of Max, I guess)
Yes, His eye perceives also her (very being) with love

Yes, okay.  Thank you very much, Wolfi (I tried to find that in German ... but, I couldn't figure out how to say it correctly -- I did at least figure out the infinitive, danken ...).

[pianowolfi]

German is really difficult, and this poetic and old German is much more so. I even don't think every person here on the street would understand something like "Und ob die Wolke sie verhülle". And for us it's very difficult to read Shakespeare in the original version
"Auxiliary verb" is a verb that is used to serve another verb, the main verb, like the auxiliary note of a trill and the main note. In the sentence "I have said"  "said" is the main verb and "have" the auxiliary verb. We say Hilfsverb (help-verb)

We'd say vielen Dank! Or 'danke dir'!

Liebe m1469, danke dir für das anregende Gespräch

[m1469]

German is really difficult, and this poetic and old German is much more so. I even don't think every person here on the street would understand something like "Und ob die Wolke sie verhülle". And for us it's very difficult to read Shakespeare in the original version

Ohhhhhh ... I had not really understood what kind of "poetic sense" you had meant before, but now I think I 'get' it.  So, it is a little tricky, I guess .

We'd say vielen Dank! Or 'danke dir'!

Liebe m1469, danke dir für das anregende Gespräch

Oh!  Well, right away I figured that "Liebe" has more than one meaning, I guess in some cases it can be "love" and then also "dear" ... and I figured out lots of it except for anregende (but, I "cheated" and translated it online  ).

Sie sind willkommen (okay, I cheated there, too).  Und (I did that one all by myself now) danke dir!

PS-- I can't help it, something that is slightly cool to me is that it seems like Morgen is both 'tomorrow' as well as 'morning' (well, I undestand that the capital letter makes the difference) but, as I learn, of course I relate it to learning Spanish (for some reason not to English as much ... haha), and in Spanish manana is both morning and tomorrow.  Well, to me it makes sense.

[pianowolfi]

Ohhhhhh ... I had not really understood what kind of "poetic sense" you had meant before, but now I think I 'get' it.  So, it is a little tricky, I guess .

Oh!  Well, right away I figured that "Liebe" has more than one meaning, I guess in some cases it can be "love" and then also "dear" ... and I figured out lots of it except for anregende (but, I "cheated" and translated it online  ).

Sie sind willkommen (okay, I cheated there, too).  Und (I did that one all by myself now) danke dir!

PS-- I can't help it, something that is slightly cool to me is that it seems like Morgen is both 'tomorrow' as well as 'morning' (well, I undestand that the capital letter makes the difference) but, as I learn, of course I relate it to learning Spanish (for some reason not to English as much ... haha), and in Spanish manana is both morning and tomorrow.  Well, to me it makes sense.

Yeah in this context "liebe"(if it's a man it's "lieber") means "dear" , 'Morgen' is morning and 'morgen' is tomorrow.
"Sie sind willkommen" we say only if somebody whom we don't know yet visits us, that's the formal version. "You are welcome" would be "Bitte, gern geschehen." If a good friend visits me I would just say "Willkommen!"
"anregend" is something like "inspiring" or "motivational".

Hasta mañana y gracias

[emill]

Hello m1469! 

WONDERFUL voice and good control !  Honestly I was beginning to get jealous about the attention you were getting versus the zero attention Enzo's Liszt concerto No.1 practice is getting. Now I know why ... BRAVA!!! 

emill

[m1469]

Hi Emill,

Thanks for listening and for your comments.  

PS-- Wolfi, I am still working on getting the German better.  I have listened numbers of times to your recordings, especially the first verse, and I am just trying to live with it a bit because when I'm listening to you and speaking along, I feel like I'm getting it, but if I just sit down to speak it again myself, I feel like I don't know if I'm really making the necessary changes.  So, I'm trying to get to a point where I know I'm doing it at least *more* correctly before I post it again!  Thanks .

[furtwaengler]

I am always amazed at your instrument, and big and beautiful it is. Don't ever quit singing!

[m1469]

I am always amazed at your instrument, and big and beautiful it is. Don't ever quit singing!

Thanks very much, Dave!  I definitely don't want to stop singing .