Piano Forum



Happy Piano Day 2021!
Piano Day is an annual worldwide event originally founded in 2015 by Nils Frahm and a group of likeminded people and takes place on the 88th day of the year - in 2021 it's the 29th March, explained by the number of keys on the instrument being celebrated. Read more >>

Topic: chopin nocturne Bb minor  (Read 7156 times)

Offline greyrune

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
chopin nocturne Bb minor
on: August 16, 2004, 06:11:23 PM
i was just wondering what grade level the nocturne in Bb minor op9 no1 is.  I know you guys don't always put much weight on grades but i need to know for my entrance to university.  Personally i don't quite see the point either.  I guess they are a usefull measuring stick but it seems hard to classify certain peices.  Anyway if anyone knows that'd be really handy, cheers
I'll be Bach

Offline bernhard

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5078
Re: chopin nocturne Bb minor
Reply #1 on: August 16, 2004, 07:11:10 PM
Around grade 8 (ABRSM).
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline hiline

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 82
Re: chopin nocturne Bb minor
Reply #2 on: July 29, 2006, 04:30:24 PM
Around grade 8 (ABRSM).


Grade 8? What makes it so hard? 
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)

This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination

Offline thalbergmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16730
Re: chopin nocturne Bb minor
Reply #3 on: July 29, 2006, 05:42:49 PM
I guess that this piece sounds easy, but is far from easy to play.

When i learnt it, i struggled with 11 notes in the right hand against 6 in the left and 22 against 12. That was until my teacher introduced me to his world famous "nice cup of tea" theory.

In addition to play the legato octaves in the right hand smoothly is not easy.

Must be grade 8.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline desordre

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
Re: chopin nocturne Bb minor
Reply #4 on: July 29, 2006, 07:34:32 PM
 Dear Greyrune:
 I mostly agree with Mr(or mrs) Thalbergmad:
I guess that this piece sounds easy, but is far from easy to play.(...)
And the main problem (the forementioned x against y) relies on the very concept of rubato. If you look at the lower staff, you'll notice that it's always the same thing but the last three  measures. However, the upper one has a very smooth, gently flowing melody, that must "sing" over that ground. How do you play that? The steadiest LH you can and the most cantabile RH you can.
 Why am I writing about this? Just to tell you something: try measure number 3. RH: very easy; LH: dummy; HT: easy if you have the background, impossible if you don't. Remember that it's not about playing 22 notes of equal lenght, but to put these notes EXACTLY over the time of one regular measure, using all agogics that you want to. So, in general I guess that the piece should be under grade 8, but to most grade 8 students it's absolutely impossible.
 Best wishes!
Player of what?

Offline bernhard

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5078
Re: chopin nocturne Bb minor
Reply #5 on: July 30, 2006, 12:23:35 AM
Thanks, Thal and Desordre from saving me writing another big post. :D

Also, remember that grading is always subjective. One may well disagree with the ABRSM and decide that the piece is more difficult or easier than they claim. Always take the grades posted as suggestions only.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline quantum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6221
Re: chopin nocturne Bb minor
Reply #6 on: July 30, 2006, 02:38:33 AM
Grade 10 RCM.  When I learned it, it seemed much tricker than it sounded. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline hiline

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 82
Re: chopin nocturne Bb minor
Reply #7 on: July 30, 2006, 03:03:18 PM
Thank you all for your responses. Do you know any other reason why this piece should be Grade 8 ?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)

This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination

Offline quantum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6221
Re: chopin nocturne Bb minor
Reply #8 on: July 30, 2006, 06:19:20 PM
Control of phrasing in order not to make it mathematical - mostly referring to the tuplets. 

Tonal balance and colour in the middle section - the melody is in octaves and there is a lot of repitition.  One would need to play a good legato line in octaves, while also making sure to avoid making everything sound the same.  The repitions provide opportunities for changes of tone and colour, as well as alternate phrasings on the melodic line. 

Control of the LH is also  a big part here, including recognizing some of the contrapuntal elements in the arpeggiated LH, as well as the ebb and flow of the harmonic progressions from dissonances and consonances which need to be factored into ones phrase shaping. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline hiline

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 82
Re: chopin nocturne Bb minor
Reply #9 on: July 31, 2006, 02:49:27 PM
Thank you quantum. And how did you get through all those difficulties? 
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)

This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination

Offline quantum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6221
Re: chopin nocturne Bb minor
Reply #10 on: July 31, 2006, 08:58:58 PM
I learned this piece quite a while ago, but when you study more repertoire and keep learning pieces, you apply new knowladge to old ones and discover things you didn't realize when you learned the piece. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert