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Topic: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4  (Read 11267 times)

Offline m1469

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Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
on: May 17, 2011, 10:39:34 PM
A second (unorthodox) version from 10 minutes ago (6/27/11) in this post, below the first attachment.

If you would like a completely unorthodox Rachmaninov listening experience, please consider yourself welcomed with open arms to my world!  I am providing you with that experience  :- :).  Yes, again it's a bit rusty and that could explain a couple of things, I did in fact completely make up a part, very randomly and very distinctly, on page 3, and then got back on track (except for the fact that I basically impressionated the ending, as well  :-[).  BUT, I am experimenting with playing more slowly and with some different particulars, so if that is of interest to you, please feel free to comment  :).  I of course would like to play this without completely making stuff up, though of course that is a resort I would welcome should I need it in a concert!  It's not my actual eventual goal, though, just in case a person is starting to wonder.

Thanks for listening.


*********************************************************************
Well, I'm in a huge hurry and I am posting this before I lose my nerve.  I treated this like an improv. and indeed had to improvise my way through in several places, and this was a time when I scarcely remember what happened -- but I just know it's pretty big in places.  I had been improvising just before this and toying on impressions of pieces, and then I decided to give this one a try.  Please be open-minded  :-.  I'm a wild person inside and I do crazy things sometimes  :-.  

My heart is just pouring out of me lately and I simply feel horrible if I am not making music and trying to communicate.  So, the saving grace in this to me is that I feel it honestly reflects who I am as a musician, despite the fact that the music is slightly rusty (so sorry, Rach ... but surely you, of all people, must know my regard for this music).

So, okay ... *closes eyes, plugs ears and posts*

PS-- I hope I didn't trim off the last note.
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes
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Offline floydcramerfan

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4 (kinda wild)
Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 10:58:02 PM
Hey, there's nothing wrong with improv.  You should play from your heart.  It sounded good.
I don't practice.  I call it play because I enjoy it. --A quote by Floyd Cramer.

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #2 on: May 18, 2011, 03:13:21 AM
Thanks!  I just now got the nerve to listen to it.  It's funny, my experience playing it was quite a bit different than my experience listening.  I heard things, of course, that weren't what was on the page, but overall it's not *as* bad as I thought it was.  I was actually shaking by the time I was finishing up playing it, but it doesn't sound like that when I listen.  I've been wanting to record and post this for quite awhile.  
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline floydcramerfan

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #3 on: May 18, 2011, 02:53:43 PM
You want notes that aren't on the page, let me play for you.  I'm allergic to playing notes on a page, lol.
I don't practice.  I call it play because I enjoy it. --A quote by Floyd Cramer.

Offline mike_lang

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #4 on: May 18, 2011, 03:08:57 PM
m1469, it's beautiful . . . What is this magnificent instrument you are playing on?  And just out of my own curiosity, what is the recording device you used?

Mike

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #5 on: May 18, 2011, 04:38:42 PM
You want notes that aren't on the page, let me play for you.  I'm allergic to playing notes on a page, lol.

Well, somehow I wonder a bit about that  :P.  I guess I do find that, right now anyway -- at this point in my overall development-- it seems that I just can't quite be the whole package.  If I'm aiming to be note-perfect, something seems lost and often if I let my heart lead, notes get lost.  There is something within that which really bothers me and then also something within that which I feel I must live with and just strive to get better, or else not play the piano at all.  And, not playing the piano at all, or just never ever letting anybody hear me play seems to be not an internal option for me.

m1469, it's beautiful . . .

I am very glad and thank you for feeling you can find some beauty within that :).  I do know that there's still much better to be demonstrated (and I certainly hope to do so).

Quote
What is this magnificent instrument you are playing on?  And just out of my own curiosity, what is the recording device you used?

Mike

My piano is a 1988 Yamaha C7.  I recorded with my edirol R-09 (I think those letters/numbers are correct).
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline floydcramerfan

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #6 on: May 18, 2011, 05:01:27 PM
Heck yeah, Yamaha!!!  And yes, I'm allergic to playing by a score.  It makes me claustrophobic like I'm in a box.
I don't practice.  I call it play because I enjoy it. --A quote by Floyd Cramer.

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #7 on: May 18, 2011, 05:22:15 PM
Yes, I suppose there is some element of that for me, too.  But, it's not the score's fault, it's more to do, in my case anyway, with preconceived ideas and suspicions about what other people might think of me and such.  It's psychological -- well, that, and along with the fact that I grew up in a much different way as a child-musician.

The part of me "treating it like an improv." was fairly specific in that, I aimed to concentrate on main ideas and to stay within those frameworks, rather than just thinking in terms of notes.  I think that, note-perfectness aside, this is also an aim of somebody playing from the score or whatnot.  I mean, I think that truly, we are always aiming at ideas and not just notes.  But, it's difficult to break the shackles sometimes because doing so may mean we color outside of the lines for a bit.  This music is a little rusty for me and that is part of it, but that's not all of it (but also I now know how to be digesting it more deeply, too, and need to take it through a process still).  I don't wish to exactly color within the lines, but I don't want to be actually worrying over notes, either (wondering if I will be capable of playing them correctly or if I don't, whether that will completely throw me off, etc.).  

In the case of this particular recording, though there may be different opinions on interpretations and somebody can nitpick the notes, I feel the overall character and the musical ideas end up trumping the other factors of the performance.  While the overall is not the supreme ideal, I do feel I can learn from it as it is.
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline floydcramerfan

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #8 on: May 18, 2011, 05:26:30 PM
I'm no expert by any means, but I know what sounds good and that definitely did.
I don't practice.  I call it play because I enjoy it. --A quote by Floyd Cramer.

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 06:15:31 PM
Well, thank you.  I do appreciate that you feel that way, whether you are an expert or not :).
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline goldentone

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #10 on: May 25, 2011, 06:10:13 AM
It's been a long time since you've been in here (other than the Abegg). :)  I love listening to this, and I've listened to it several times.  I'm hearing much in your playing that I've never heard before, and that is exciting.  The big passage (2:35) is terrific.  The beauty in your playing. :)  You do play it quite faster than what Rach calls for.  I would slow it down and let it ooze more.    

You're going to be a great pianist. :)

For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

Offline iratior

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 10:27:36 AM
m1469!  Right now I am on a Les Adieux sonata kick, and find that the strains of it, especially the last movement, come on so strong in my mind that all other thoughts about music get completely eclipsed.  I probably offended a lot of people when I wrote, in another forum here, that I thought Chopin's opus 10 no. 8 was no Les Adieux sonata.  But thanks for sharing your rendition of this prelude, and whenever you want to post something in the audition room, feel free;  I will appreciate it very much.  I think Rach op. 39 no. 6 might even get past the Les Adieux sonata.

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #12 on: May 25, 2011, 03:52:03 PM
It's been a long time since you've been in here (other than the Abegg) :)  I love listening to this, and I've listened to it several times.  I'm hearing much in your playing that I've never heard before, and that is exciting.  The big passage (2:35) is terrific.  The beauty in your playing. :)

Thanks, Goldentone, for listening and for your comments :).  Anytime now that I can get that musician/pianist actually out of me is just such a huge relief.  Playing it in this recording felt like that for me, so I'm happy if it is audible, too :).
  
Quote
You do play it quite faster than what Rach calls for.  I would slow it down and let it ooze more.

Yes, I did notice that it was pretty fast for the piece ... I will slow it down.    

Quote
You're going to be a great pianist. :)

Well, I will aim at getting out whatever is inside of me ... which, even though I have sometimes been extremely uncomfortable with it in there, I hope isn't an isolated amount.  I just hope to get things flowing ... :).  But, I can't say that I foresee myself complaining if it happened to be great :).


m1469!  Right now I am on a Les Adieux sonata kick, and find that the strains of it, especially the last movement, come on so strong in my mind that all other thoughts about music get completely eclipsed.

Oh yes, I understand this sort of thing very well!

Quote
I think Rach op. 39 no. 6 might even get past the Les Adieux sonata.

Sometime I will want to play the Rach Etudes :)!  All the preludes are something I'd like to play, also :).

Thanks for listening and for chiming in!
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline can

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #13 on: May 27, 2011, 08:26:37 AM
Wonderful..
But rather than improvisation.. I prefer to call it articulation of feelings. It also happened to me sometimes. Your interpretation is so natural, spontaneous, and full of emotions. Bravo
“Perfection itself is imperfection.”<br />Vladimir Horowitz

Offline mnmleung

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #14 on: June 20, 2011, 03:31:52 AM
I love it, thank you m1469
learning
Chopin etude op 10 no 6
Chopin mazurka op 24 no 4
Szymanowski prelude op 1 no 1

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #15 on: June 23, 2011, 06:54:09 PM
Wonderful..
But rather than improvisation.. I prefer to call it articulation of feelings. It also happened to me sometimes. Your interpretation is so natural, spontaneous, and full of emotions. Bravo

Thank you very much, can!  And, I enjoy your way of thinking :).

I love it, thank you m1469

Thank you, mnmleung!  I am happy that you enjoyed :).
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 11:29:39 AM
Nice playing Foxy, I am well impressed.

Although I am not in a position to comment as I am not in your league, I hope you don't mind me saying that I thought it just a little fast in sections.

If something is that beautiful, is it not worth hanging on just a little longer?

Luv

Thal


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Concerto Preservation Society

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 03:07:39 PM
Hi Thal,

Thanks for listening and for commenting, and I don't mind at all your comments but in fact appreciate them.  I agree, too!  I think I'd like to record this again soon (though, I suppose I would have hoped to get the piano tuned, but we'll see).  I feel like right now I'm playing it the speed of a slug, but sometimes that's how I "feel" it - or at least sometimes it's like I have to try it on or so.  I actually thought I was playing the recording in this thread slower than it is, so maybe my feeling as though I'm playing it like a slug isn't actually exactly as it seems to me?

Anyhoo ... :)
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #18 on: June 26, 2011, 04:45:21 PM
I can understand where you are coming from.

Recently, I recorded the first movement of a Sonata by Woelfl and I was amazed how different the recording was to how I felt when I was playing it.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #19 on: June 27, 2011, 01:35:38 AM
I can understand where you are coming from.

Recently, I recorded the first movement of a Sonata by Woelfl and I was amazed how different the recording was to how I felt when I was playing it.

Thal

Does it mean you are considering posting it?  :)
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #20 on: June 27, 2011, 06:37:10 PM
Okay, well, I have attached a second recording from just a bit ago, in the original post.  If you would like a completely unorthodox Rachmaninov listening experience, please consider yourself welcomed with open arms to my world!  I am providing you with that experience  :- :).  Yes, again it's a bit rusty and that could explain a couple of things, I did in fact completely make up a part, very randomly and very distinctly, on page 3, and then got back on track (except for the fact that I basically impressionated the ending, as well  :-[).  BUT, I am experimenting with playing more slowly and with some different particulars, so if that is of interest to you, please feel free to comment :).  I of course would like to play this without completely making stuff up, though of course that is a resort I would welcome should I need it in a concert!  It's not my actual eventual goal, though, just in case a person is starting to wonder.

Thanks for listening :).
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #21 on: June 27, 2011, 07:18:40 PM
Does it mean you are considering posting it?  :)

Never in a million years.

Posting recordings is just too personal for me.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline littletune

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #22 on: June 27, 2011, 07:55:23 PM
I really love your playing m1469!  8)  :) I was listening to your recording and at the same time looking at some other things on the internet and then all of a sudden I didn't even know what I was doing and exactly where I was cause your playing made me feel like I was in another world or something!  :P  8)  :)

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #23 on: June 28, 2011, 02:31:20 AM
Never in a million years.

I will wait then for the million and one-th year, then, I guess :).

I really love your playing m1469!  8)  :) I was listening to your recording and at the same time looking at some other things on the internet and then all of a sudden I didn't even know what I was doing and exactly where I was cause your playing made me feel like I was in another world or something!  :P  8)  :)

Littletune thank you for listening and commenting in the first place, but I have to say that I love this particular comment, too :).  Thank you :).
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline mnmleung

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #24 on: June 29, 2011, 05:18:38 AM
I have not listened to the new sound clip yet, m1469.  I look forward to it.  Just want to share some thoughts after hearing your first recording (more than once).

I am not a very good swimmer, but I tried to do 600m every time I went to the pool.  That was a couple of years ago.  To help me count, I would mentally listen to Rakhmaninov's op 23 no 1 during my first 100m, then op 23 no 2 the 2nd 100m and so on up to op 23 no 6.  But I have not swum for a while now, and last week I started again, initially with 300m (while our 3 year old has his 30 mins swim class).  Today is the 2nd time I swam 400m and it is the first time I got back to listening to Rakhmaninov's op 23 in my head during the swim.

Something in your phrasing or shaping stood out because it was something I had not heard before, and I like it.  And I was going over it during my 4th lap.

I actually performed op 23 nos 4 and 6 about 20 years ago at a concert (plus 2 other pieces).  I had two copies of the music so I spread them out, and played from copy, without having to page-turn.  I think it is far better to tell the story from memory as you did, and "risk" having the odd "adventure" in the middle, than play the printed notes, but not necessarily have a strong feeling how the story goes part of the way ...

I have been reading about Scott Ross https://scott.ross.voila.net/srconfng.html
"You can't play music if you're too preoccupied with false notes".

Looking forward to listening to the 2nd sound clip when I am done with today's work.

Ming
learning
Chopin etude op 10 no 6
Chopin mazurka op 24 no 4
Szymanowski prelude op 1 no 1

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #25 on: June 29, 2011, 05:03:12 PM
Hi Ming,

Thanks very much for listening again and for sharing your thoughts! :)  

Yes, I'm not *incredibly* worried about the fact that I'm having some times when I'm making stuff up in the playing, however, of course my ultimate goal would be to have a sleek musical package without it.  For now, though, it's like I'll play it for a time and then set it down for a month, and then pick it up again and it's always an adventure when I pick it up again.  Aside from that, though, there is something about practicing it in certain ways, including if improvisation comes up, which helps to have it sit in the deeper levels of being "my own" musical expression.  There is some element for me in it having *must* gone through a kind of unorthodox and improvisational process for it to really become my own.  And, of course, not that it's mine vs. Rachmaninov's, but I think that in order for performers to truly have something to say in the music vs. just playing notes, it simply must reach a level of being -basically- one's own.

So, thanks for listening, and I'll love it if you listen to the second clip, as well, and just so anybody knows, I'm interested in critiques (other than the obvious note stuff), as well, if a person has much to say.  And, although I'll make decisions as I need to, I am also particularly interested in whether people feel that the difference in tempi work for them or not - whether it brings a different experience.  :)
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline mnmleung

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #26 on: June 30, 2011, 12:38:44 AM
I have listened to the 2nd clip once.  I like both, congratulations.  And it is interesting to hear the improvisation.  I doubt if the m1469-sections will play in my head when I go for a swim next time :)  Apologies if what I say implies I want to nit pick: I thought I'd share my initial reaction and hopefully you will take whatever is of use, and discard the rest.

The impression I have (for now) is that there is again a lovely line and a sense of direction, even at a slowly tempo.  I find more instances of slowing down in the new clip: I actually found the 1st clip flows better not so much because it is faster, but fewer stop/starts.

In the 2nd clip sometimes the non-melody-parts get loud enough to compete with the melody line, for example in the 3rd beats of bars 13 and 14.  I went back to the 1st clip and I think I did not notice it as much because it was moving faster.  Less time for my mind to wander ?!

The 1/8th notes + 2x 1/16th notes against triplets (like the 3rd beat in bar 5) figures feel more like triplets in the 2nd clip: I miss hearing them as written.  I tried doing it myself but I find it very tricky.

That's all from me.

You got me looking at the score and trying bits out on the piano ... thank you m1469.
learning
Chopin etude op 10 no 6
Chopin mazurka op 24 no 4
Szymanowski prelude op 1 no 1

Offline m1469

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Re: Rachmaninov Prelude in D Major, Op. 23 no. 4
Reply #27 on: July 04, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
Hi Ming,

I appreciate your sharing your observations and they are helpful for me.  I will listen again while keeping in mind your comments!
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes
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