Getting a new Steinway D tomorrow. Need help picking between D's.

[noambenhamou]

Hi everyone, exciting day for me.
Flying to the factory in NY tonight to pick up a D out of 5 they have waiting there for me.
Any advice on how to pick?
I'm most concerned about potential of the piano. The things that CANNOT change like the soundboard etc...

My worry is this:
Piano #1) very well prepped. Regulated, and voiced perfect but with a so so soundboard and all the other things that CANNOT change later

Piano #2) not prepped at all. Needs to be regulated and voiced, sounds terrible compared to the piano #1 but if it WERE voiced and regulated it would be superior because of the soundboard, frame etc.

I thought of maybe plucking the strings to compare which sound I liked most. And also testing out which one sustained longer.

I know the common answer is to go with which piano "speaks" to me most and i'll most likely do just that But I would love to be a little bit more scientific about this.

After it I pick and it ships to me, I'll my amazing piano tech which used to prep the D's at the factory a long time ago put like 30 hours of work into it, so again - i'm looking into potential, not "out of the box" perfect.

Any suggestions within the next 20 hours would be great!!!


PS - any good air-freight shipping companies out there? I'm reluctant to have Steinway put the piano on their truck and drive all the way to the West coast. I feel the piano would be subject to 2 weeks of night/day temperature variations. I'd rather put the piano through only 1 temperature change in an airplane. Plus, I read that some cargo planes heat their cargo bay, even pressurize it too

[keys60]

Not sure I understand. What could be sub par with the soundboard? I'd go for the truck. Springtime is fairly stable. Cargo holds can be freezing. You'll need to have it gone over again prepped or not.

[cherp]

Sounds like you should be shopping craigslist if you're asking for help picking a piano.

[iumonito]

This smells of troll.  How could you possibly be about to spend the exorbitant amount of money a Steinway D costs and be asking this question.  Absurd.

If you are really going to the Steinway factory (actually, it would be the showroom, wouldn't it), you can expect all the pianos that will be shown to you to be reasonably well prepped, and reasonably good pianos. (Steinways are far from my favorite pianos, but only a fool would deny these pianos are good).

You will not find dramatic changes between one instrument and another in terms of things that cannot be changed.  If you were to become educated about these things, you would develop a relationship with a competent technician, and adjust the piano to your taste (or his/hers, if you do not have a well-developed taste and your technician does).  Voicing the piano will go a long ways on how it sounds.  Adjusting the action (or a Stanwood job, which I would recommend), will to a large extent dictate how the instrument feels.

A larger question is one of design and craftsmanship.  With the money a D costs, I would seriously consider at least half a dozen other pianos.  My personal must list includes Mason, Bluthner, August Forster, Kawai, Baldwin, and Steingraeber (I am including used here, and a few of these are slightly more expensive than Steinway, but not by much), but that is largely a question of taste.

If you fall in love with a piano and have the money, get it and forget about the rest; but if you are not sure, stop.  You have much to learn before you make this move.

[john90]

You have much to learn before you make this move.

You have missed an earlier thread. The OP did learn quite a bit, and has already sent back 2 new, different grands, not before having techs in to try and set them both up for the room. Finally the OP has been test driving a used 'D' loaner at home, before taking the plunge to get a new one sorted out. I'm sure it was definitely worth the trip, even if the end result is that all the 'D's were excellent. Hopefully we will get an update at some point after it arrives/during setup.

[iumonito]

You have missed an earlier thread. The OP did learn quite a bit, and has already sent back 2 new, different grands, not before having techs in to try and set them both up for the room. Finally the OP has been test driving a used 'D' loaner at home, before taking the plunge to get a new one sorted out. I'm sure it was definitely worth the trip, even if the end result is that all the 'D's were excellent. Hopefully we will get an update at some point after it arrives/during setup.

That may be so. 

Green Mountain, btw, moves pianos well.

[noambenhamou]

I guess I haven't updated here. It's sad to see some people here criticizing me on how I don't know how I asked a stupid question.

When I got the the FACTORY, not the store in manhatten, there was a selection room in which there were 5 D's. (On the other side of the room, about 6 B's) The room was acoustically DEAD.

The pianos were labeled from left to right: 1,2,3,4,5

I sat down at piano 1 and played for 15 seconds. It made barely any sound, even when played very hard. The hammers were VERY soft, it was weird.
#2 was a beast. It sounded like a piano. #3,4,5 were like #1. Very soft. I had my friend play #2 normally, and at the same time I tried #1, and I couldn't hear #1 at all!!!! 1,3,4,5 were not prepped, there was no hardening liquid on the hammers at all. A violin would be able to over power them. I told them it was bullshit! I came to pick from 5 pianos, not 1. There was only 1 piano prepped. I told them all besides #2 were DEAD pianos. They tried to convince me some people like them that mellow. I didn't give in. I played 3 D's in portland right before I left to NY, I also played 2 D's at the local college. They are all different, but they all sounded "alive" at least.

After almost 6 hours fighting with management at the selection room, I sneaked into the prep room where there were 8 D's with no legs. I played them all real quick. couple of notes. They all had SOUND. I called management in there and said "what the F@#CK??"

All the sudden they came clean. They said that they were trying out to see if people would like the super mellow sound on the D's but changed their mind and only RECENTLY they decided to make the hammers hard(er) like they should be. I'm not talking hard like a Yamaha, but hard enough to get some juice.

So now that I caught them and they came clean, I told them this "bring up at least 2 of these pianos, I'll come back tomorrow and at least i'll have 3 to pick from. I'll also go to the store in NY to see their D's"

The next morening I went to the store in NY and both new D's they had upstairs were "alive" but I wasn't in love. I went back to the Factory and they indeed brought up #1 and #5 as I asked them. Wow - they were D's alright, but now I can compare! I went with the #2 afterall.

I was there with a good friend who lives in NY who has played also all his life. I wasn't imagining, He also had much experience with D's. He was on my side 100% which was great. #1,3,4,5 were totally DEAD. They didn't have the power of even a Baby grand. Nomatter how much you beat up on the keys.


Recently I spoke with some professors, one from a university from bellvue WA, who we both experience the same thing. He said he had 7 to choose from in the factory to select a new D, and found that only 3 were actually prepped. 4 were just totally DEAD. Like the hammers were made out of cloth. This was in Jan of this year. He mentioned that he was disapointed at how arrogant steinway was. That they thought the D's were perfect even though they were not even close to being voiced. I felt the same way.

Then my piano teacher I recently started with who teaches in a university was at the factory to pick a D also had the same experience. Most of the D's were dead.

We still don't know what it was. It may be a tactics to speed up the selection time. Put 4 dead pianos, and 1 that sounds great to make it a "no brainer". I didn't fall for it. I went there to pick. And yes, properly voiced and prepped, the D's are all a bit different than eachother. And it's not just hammers, it's sound board, frame, wood, grain density etc...

The only thing that was the same about them was the action. The action was almost identical between them. I tested it with weights, down / up and obviously played with my iphone headphones blasting in my ears so I'm not tricked by the sound. That's how I tested the action. It was easy with 1,3,4,5 because they weren't making sound, but #2 overpowered my headphones easily.

[spencervirt]

You would think that Steinway would properly prepare for someone about to purchase a $170,000 piano.

I hope you enjoy your new piano. I'm sure you've deserved it.

[noambenhamou]

135k. But you get my point.
I think they don't preprare them well maybe because usually it's representatives from universities that come to the factory to pick out a piano and they simply cannot leave empty handed.
In my case, I told them, if I have to come back in a month or two to pick again, I will.

[iumonito]

First of all, Congratulations on your new piano.    That you may enjoy it for many years.

I am so sorry to hear the nightmare you just went through.  It is absurd at so many levels.

You have the piano now, so in terms of selection what comes next matters little.  I am told above that you may be more knowledgeable that the impression I formed from your post, so take this with two grains of salt.  That said, only a fool pours tea into a tea cup that is full.  Hopefully yours is empty enough that the tea I wish to share can be f some use to you.  I admit readily I am a fool for giving you unwanted advice about a matter you probably have no intrest in hearing about.  

Absent a failure in quality control, by and large, all pianos of the same design can be made to sound fairly close to each other.  I do not believe at all on this fantasy that there is one piano among several that speaks specially well.  If the piano is properly adjusted, it will speak as well as its design permits it.  Sure, all pieces of wood are not created equal; and sure, there are some pieces that may be more difficult to replace or adjust, like an abused set of hammers; but by an large, I am completely confident that if properly adjusted, all those D's you played can be made to perform to your taste.

Here is my advice at this point.  Since you did choose one of these instruments, do not satisfy yourself that the way it sounds and feels now is the way the piano is.  It isn't.  It is simply the state in which the piano is at the moment.  You would be well served to build a relationship with a piano technician of good taste who will voice the hammers and adjust the action (the two easiest things to maintain other than plain tuning) to your taste.  Do consider a Stanwood job.  And take humidity changes seriously.  Your piano does.

If you ever were to explore the maximum potential of your instrument, you should read up on Ron Overs pages if you have not done so.  Even if he does not do the re-manufacturing of the instrument, it is food for thought.

You seem not to need to be told that the folks at Steinway will not treat you the same way they treat their top concert artist customers.  I will leave the subject with the simple suggestion to get a tech that hears you and is willing to get the piano to the state you want it.  I will be pleasantly surprised if you were to obtain such attention from Steinway; I suggest you look elsewhere.  If you were in Washington, DC or nearby, I would recommend Pianocraft, as those folks really care.  In NY of course you will be able to find a good tech or two, so don't settle for less than excellent.

[Modification, I forgot you are in the West Coast.  Depending on where you are the tech question may be a little more difficult than in NY, but Del Fandrich is around there, and there is always Ron Overs in Australia.  ]

No regrets.  Go enjoy your instrument!

[ignaz]

Sounds like Steinway did not want to pay the techs to prep or voice the other 4 Model Ds.
Steinway hammers are generally to soft and then the techs harden then to bring them up.
This is not the ideal thing to do, not a wrong or bad thing to do but really the hammers should be able to play at a decent level out of the box or machine for that matter.  Since you are buying new ask if they can put in other Renner hammers or Abel hammers. Then they wont have to harden them up.
An other area of concern is that the other 4 model D may have just been completed and the strings are still being streched and the tuning drops.
Bring an electronic tuner or tuning fork and see if they are tuned to 440.
Good luck.

[keys60]

135K? The last time I was in SW showroom in Manhattan was a few years ago. They had a D for 175K. Can't be sure, but if I remember correctly, it was just an ebony tradional, not a Louis or any other artcase or wood finish. Wonder if they've come down in price due to the economy. SW's are pretty much a fixed priced instrument without much room for negotiating like other brands.

Congratulations on your purchase.

[richard black]

I suspect, if Steinway don't necessarily prepare all their pianos 100% before sale, it's at least partly because lots of purchasers will fiddle with them anyway on delivery (well, they'll get their tame tech to fiddle for them). It can be interesting, though, trying a room-full of decent pianos. I've had similar experiences helping a record producer friend select pianos for recording sessions.