Piano concerto - reduction (first two movements)

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I always wanted to have a go at writing one. I have some parts already orchestrated but need to have a big think about other sections. Here are the first two movements arranged in a reduction for solo piano. Any opinions on the material, etc, are welcome. (Yes, my compositional idiom is about 100 years old  ).

Any suggestions for orchestration technique also gratefully received.. I've been reading Piston and also been looking at the online Rimsky-Korsakov site.

(Edited)

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Second movement added.

Thoughts and comments welcome.

[derschoenebahnhof]

I like it.

Just some of my comments (coming from someone with no composing experience, 8 years of classical piano lessons):

- the first movement seems to be heavily inspired by the Warsaw Concerto from Richard Addinsell, perhaps too closely, especially at the very beginning...

- the melody seems mostly marked by chords between fast up and down runs, I don't mind it of course (I am a fan of romantic music myself), but I think there could be a bit more variety there. Perhaps alternate the melody between faster notes and slower chords, or transfer the melody from one hand to another.

- the first movement relies in good part on the chords and fast runs. Maybe it would be good to have some more distinguishable parts within that movement, with different characteristics, slower or faster, louder or quieter, major or minor, etc.

Otherwise, it is quite a bit of work to compose more than 15 minutes of music already  good work. Is there a third movement in progress?

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I like it.

Just some of my comments (coming from someone with no composing experience, 8 years of classical piano lessons):

- the first movement seems to be heavily inspired by the Warsaw Concerto from Richard Addinsell, perhaps too closely, especially at the very beginning...

Yes, there are similarities - I wasn't concerned by the very beginning but a little by the main theme from 0.48.

the melody seems mostly marked by chords between fast up and down runs, I don't mind it of course (I am a fan of romantic music myself), but I think there could be a bit more variety there. Perhaps alternate the melody between faster notes and slower chords, or transfer the melody from one hand to another.

In passages such as 1.32 to 1.54, I am actually splitting the melody between both hands. Ultimately such melodies will probably be given to the cello, or with the cello and piano doubling each other.

- the first movement relies in good part on the chords and fast runs. Maybe it would be good to have some more distinguishable parts within that movement, with different characteristics, slower or faster, louder or quieter, major or minor, etc.

I assume the second sentence here refers to the second movement which has less internal contrasts than the first movement. The minor key section of the first movement from 4.33 is probably the part I'm happiest with on compositional and dramatic grounds. I'm doing a lot of thinking about the second movement just now; I might shorten it a little rather than incorporate a (for example) contrasting minor key section. It's supposed to be an intermezzo and reflective, before the third movement begins (in quite a violent manner). In answer to your question, work is in progress on it and I have a rough outline with part of it clear in my head, but not yet written out.

Thanks for your comments, always interesting to get opinions.

[derschoenebahnhof]

Great. I'd love to hear the third movement when it is there :-)

CG

[retrouvailles]

Before I offer my opinion on this, what are your compositional goals? Do you just compose for fun (for your own personal use and for friends), or do you compose with the idea of publishing your works and/or getting performances from others? Or something in between? Just curious.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Before I offer my opinion on this, what are your compositional goals? Do you just compose for fun (for your own personal use and for friends), or do you compose with the idea of publishing your works and/or getting performances from others? Or something in between? Just curious.

Probably somewhere in between, maybe nearer to the former. It's an interesting task to set myself, and in the unlikely event that someone wanted to perform one of my compositions, that would be gratifying though far from the object of the exercise. Essentially I'm trying to write the sort of music I typically enjoy listening to. I realise that this idiom has been done to death over the years and that music has moved on considerably; if I was writing in an attempt to find/establish an original voice I would obviously write something very much different.

[retrouvailles]

Well, I didn't mean to imply anything by my original post, but I can certainly respect the compositional process. I am not a composer myself, but I've played lots of new works by composers and have assisted composers, so I can certainly appreciate how difficult it can be to write something original and fresh, or something in general. That said, I listened to the piano concerto, and while I honestly did find it more than a bit derivative, I think it has some nice catchy tunes and would be a nice work to play in a concert alongside some Romantic works. I think the fact that you wrote a long extended work like this is alone commendable.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

That said, I listened to the piano concerto, and while I honestly did find it more than a bit derivative, I think it has some nice catchy tunes and would be a nice work to play in a concert alongside some Romantic works. I think the fact that you wrote a long extended work like this is alone commendable.

Because it is more than a bit derivative From a strictly intellectual perspective I would really prefer to be trying something more original rather than reinventing the wheel, as it were, but I am largely doing it out of innate enthusiasm for the romantic style.

I can't realistically see it making it into a concert, though I might try to talk an amateur orchestra into it some time in the future. There's a lot of work remaining on my behalf to fully make the transition from piano reduction to effective orchestration (and I still have to finalise and write out the third movement). It's a very much harder task and on a bigger scale than writing pot-pourris on opera themes, which I've done in the past. Thanks for the encouraging comments.

[goldentone]

I enjoyed your piano concerto very much, Ronde.  It's the kind of music that you could
listen to endlessly.  It's something to be proud of.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I enjoyed your piano concerto very much, Ronde.  It's the kind of music that you could
listen to endlessly.  It's something to be proud of.

Thanks.  I look forward to having it finished (with the finale added) and orchestrated; a lot of work still to be done though.

[rachfan]

Hi ronde,

I enjoyed listening to your concerto.  Perhaps the first movement was slightly derivative, but overall I thought it to be a really impressive achievement.  Thanks for sharing it with us!

David

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Hi ronde,

I enjoyed listening to your concerto.  Perhaps the first movement was slightly derivative, but overall I thought it to be a really impressive achievement.  Thanks for sharing it with us!

David

I happily admit to it being derivative! There are so many influences hiding in there - Addinsell, Liszt, Rachmaninov, Liapunov and others. I'm actually quite pleased with some of the thematic transformations in the first movement (especially the theme from 0.48's altered reccurence at 4.33). Thanks for listening.

[lostinidlewonder]

The first does have a Warsaw concerto feel to it which I think is ok since I love that piece Nice ideas, it seems like the general structure is there perhaps you can substitute some more interesting chords in places or tie in more part writing melodies.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

The first does have a Warsaw concerto feel to it which I think is ok since I love that piece Nice ideas, it seems like the general structure is there perhaps you can substitute some more interesting chords in places or tie in more part writing melodies.

Yes, the second part of that comment is in line with my thoughts. There are points where I would like to add subsidiary material into the overall texture, for example to play off a transformed version of the opening descending motif contrapuntally (probably in the strings) against some of the material in the minor key middle section.

[chopin1993]

First of all, I just gotta say "wow".
I think it's a great accomplishment to write a concerto like this, and I'm looking forward to the final movement.

I really hope your work will be published, I'd love to play this myself!

The part that starts at 3:24 in the first movement gave me chills, it's absolutely beautiful.
And I like the "fake end" at 8:33, or are the couple of notes after that meant for the orchestra?

The second movement is also beautiful.
In some parts it reminds me of Chopins second piano concerto (second mvt), which is good, as he was a great composer himself. 

Good luck with the final movement!

Valerie

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Thanks.  Ultimately.. self-published, perhaps..

I'm in two minds about the fake end. At first it was intended to be an after-statement by the piano, but as the big sweeping arpeggio and bass octave which precedes it is so obviously a piano gesture it would probably be better to have the 8.35 onwards last few bars for strings and perhaps woodwind. (It's really an echo of the motif which begins the movement, which is to be primarily strings).

I had to edit the second movement because it started getting too close to the Chopin F min slow movement, so your comment makes sense to me.