Rachmaninov, prelude op 32 n 12

[costicina]

Another Rachmaninov’s piece I tried to learn…

I realize that RH is too  loud compared with the LH melody line, and that I did a mess in the most demanding sections  (playing in public, or just recording  myself is an ordeal for me; coping with nerves is still a big problem...) 

As a self-taught re-starter, any advice, suggestion, criticism will be such a help!!!
Thank you a lot in advance

[m1469]

Hi Costicina,

Studying with a knowledgeable teacher, in person, would be by far the best advice for you.  That said, though, and keeping in mind that studying with a knowledgeable teacher could truly open up entirely new worlds for you, you are doing quite well for being self-taught!  I apologize for not knowing your posts better, and so I do not know your goals.  

I don't know this piece truly in-depth and so my comments are leaning more towards thoughts on your playing in general, and one of the first things I tend to notice about students is posture, and "where" within themselves they are "holding" the music.  With you (I watched a second YouTube of you, as well, playing the Schubert 2nd Impromptu, Op. 90), I notice a couple of things that I thought I'd mention, but since there's only so much which can be communicated like this, I am hesitant to say too much.  

Firstly, my impression is that you have somehow developed a concept about how you sit at the instrument, either through reading, or through watching others live and/or on YouTube/videos, or from common thoughts about it filtered down through society  .  The result, in your case, seems to be that I feel there is quite a bit of "stagnation" in your body, which is working simultaneously with my other observations.  You could probably use to sit a bit higher, and you could probably use to sit just a bit further back, to free your arms up.  Right now, most of the music is physically focused in your hands and forearms, which means there's always going to be a kind of awkwardness until the rest of you is freed up a bit more.  

That being said, though, much of the time you seem to have a nice sense of relaxedness in your wrists and fingers, which is good!  But, the rest of your body (and sometimes your wrists) is compensating for the fact that you're a little too low and a little too close.  My feeling is that changing those things would feel very strange to you at first, because I think you've been sitting how you are for quite awhile.  I think, though, that after you got used to it, it would help you out tremendously because I can tell your heart feels the music and wants your body to have the freedom to really play it!  To me, those are places to start .

[costicina]

Thank you so much, m1469, for your kind reply!
I know from your posts that you are a great teacher (and a wonderful person). It would be my dream to find somebody like you for my daughter  Costanza -- the perfomer of Schubert’s Impromptu – who started about two years ago her piano lessons with me. In September,  I swear, she will have a ‘real’ teacher!!!

I’m not sure if your remark about posture is directed to Costanza or to me, but it is very wise and useful,   and I’ll keep in mind your advice in our practice sessions.
I had piano lessons for about 7 years in my youth, but with very bad teachers. Re-starting now, after many decades of silence, I’m having a hard time to get rid of the  bad habits acquired then.

You, Bernhard, and so many other members of this great community have been such a precious resource, and so helpfull: I thank you with all my hearth!
Margherita

[m1469]

Ohhhh .... well, this is both very interesting and quite funny, considering the reasons I didn't follow some of my hunches!  But, I am always fairly pleased when it is confirmed that, just because I'm sensing something that I don't know how to explain or that I don't feel I can bring up, doesn't make me completely out of my mind!    

First of all, though, I must tell you that I believe a "real teacher" is somebody who cares about the person they are teaching, offers them as much as they can, and cares about the individual's progress.  In that sense, of course your daughter already has a great teacher in you!  I'm truly sorry that you have had bad experiences, yourself!  But, yes, there are indeed some very fine teachers in the world who could help you both .

But, okay.  First of all, I chose to watch the video of Costanza, not understanding that there were two different people posting, mainly because I saw that in that one, I could see her (what I thought was you) entire posture.  I wanted to see that to help me better understand what I was seeing in your video.  I had two main reactions about that.  One was that it seemed like two different people to me, but since in your video I couldn't actually see you, and since the internet can be a place of deliberate deception (despite this community often being great, it has had its ... deceivers), I didn't fully follow my hunch.  That is a little funny to me.  Second, I could more fully tell in Costanza's video that she has somehow had *some* kind of direction, so that made me suspicious of the aspect of being "self-taught" ... another hunch I had, which I didn't fully follow (but at least hinted around).  

Now that I more fully understand  , my main talk about posture was for Costanza, including the aspect about her wrists sometimes compensating for her body sitting too low.  Now, I've seen people play like that in general, or for certain passages, and she wasn't doing that the whole time, but generally, with that, I would investigate *why* one would feel the need to do that (when the wrists arch upward), and see if there is another way to deal with the passage.

For you, I get a similar kind of sense about your posture and physical musical focus, but since I only actually observed your hands and some forearm, I don't feel it's truly fair for me to remark fully on that.  You are obviously more developed than your daughter, but I wasn't positive if my sensing that was just the fact that I was viewing two different pieces, two very different styles, and as far as I knew, at potentially two very different stages in the learning process and with potentially two very different levels of love for the pieces themselves, or what!

But, from my memory of viewing yours, I can say that you are obviously very conscious of playing the right notes, etc..  This is obviously a good thing, but sometimes I feel this is nearly the ultimate goal for you, and sometimes at the expense of musical expression ... and, that's a funny conundrum!  When we ask ourselves why we play, I suspect we'd never answer "so I can get all the right notes at all the right times and with all the right kinds of dynamics."  Funnily enough, though, this is often exactly how we play!  That is a trap that many people, including myself, can and do fall into.  

For you, I suspect that there is more in you that's waiting for the opportunity to break out of there!  I think this not just based on hunches, but that sometimes with you, there is a very noticeable shift from a passage that is musically free (and I *do* suspect that you have a sense of joy while playing these passages), to one where you are focused on getting the right notes, etc..  Ok, that's the reality of the learning process!  But, the point is to have the awareness of when that's happening because we don't actually want, I don't think, our expression of playing to stay on the level of being just about the notes forever!  Maybe what I noticed were just momentary parts of that particular performance, but I *suspect* I can grasp much of your general approach and that this observation I made is correct in more than one occasion (well, and that's not actually unique to you, either, but like I mentioned, part of the learning process for many people).  I believe there is often something psychological (not *just* mental-- all of it's mental) about that kind of thing.

Anyway, I'll be happy to see/hear more videos in the future .

[costicina]

Thank you, m1469!!!

Your reply  is (as always), brilliant, witty and  full of valuable insights.
You are sooo right!: very often I’m too much worried about  “getting the right notes” etc., and this spoils not only the actual ‘musical’ content of my playing, but the joy itself of playing.  

As I wrote in another post, both my past teachers kept saying that I had “a great musicality”, but lacked  the technical skills (the very thing they were supposed  to teach me!!) or the “talent” to go beyond the – very modest  – level I was stuck with. So I quitted.  

Two years ago, when I had again a piano in my house (in the saddest circumstances of my life), I decided to introduce my daughter into piano playing, and to restart myself.
Being a very stubborn, proud and passionate person when I have a goal I care for, I spent a lot of time and energy trying to attain my goal.
Being able to play (ok, not that well, but it does’nt matter) pieces like the Rachmaninov’s prelude and the etude op 33 n 8 (both far above the level I attained when I quitted) is a big achievement for me.

But now, my main concern is for my daughter.  She started with a 'qualified' teacher, but when she asked her to keep a book under her armpits in order to "stay still with the arms", I knew she was not what I was looking for. The second one was not better. So for most of the time, Costanza has had  only  me as a  teacher. I did my best (reading books, subscribing to this forum etc.), and I’ve to say that this teaching experience has helped a lot to improve my own piano practice.

Costanza is not particularly “talented”, nor “skilled” -- as my past teachers thought one should  to be to play the piano -- but the (for me astonishing) progresses she made in these two years demonstrate how they were wrong, and how she could ‘flourish’ under a competent guidance (I mean a ‘real’ but good teacher).

Sorry for this long post (and for my awful English). I’m abusing your patience, I know, but you are so kind and understanding…..

If and when you’ll have the time and the patience to watch others video of Costanza, I’ll be insanely happy, and your opinion will be most welcomed. You can find some of them (i.e. Mendelssohn’s   Boat song, Burgmüller’s L’Orage and Debussy’s Clair the lune) in my previous posts, or visting my youtube channel (Margotklavier)

Again and again and again THANK YOU, m1469, I’m so glad  to have  had the chance to meet –alas, just virtually – a special person like you!!!

Margherita
 

[m1469]

Yes, sure, my pleasure, Margherita .  Thank you for sharing a bit of your story here -- I'd like to say a bit more about that in a bit.

I would be happy to comment on recordings in the future, if I feel I have something to say .