Help needed with double flats.

[annabubbles]

Hello!

Could someone help me understand how to play this section of flats? I am unfamiliar with how you are meant to interpret the notes.

This is a part of the sheet I am trying to play.



And this is how I'm interpreting it.



I'm fine with single flats, but it's the double flats which are confusing me. Do they carry on or something? Do they add with the designated flat notes already? etc.

Thanks if someone could help me out.

[brogers70]

Can't see your images, but a double flat just means "lower the note by two half steps. So E double flat is the same as D natural. G double flat is the same as F natural. F double flat would be the same as E flat, but I've never seen it used. Likewise a double sharp means "raise the note by two half steps." So D double sharp is the same as E natural, etc.

[bachbrahmsschubert]

To add on to what Rogers said, double flats are the same no matter what key you're in.

So even if a flat is in the key signature, you don't double the flat on the flat. Meaning in B flat minor (the key in your example), it says B double flat, you would play that as an A natural because you're double flatting the B natural, not the B flat.

Rule of thumb with double flats and sharps: ignore the key signature, and double flat or sharp whichever note the composer asks for.

Does any of that make sense? It can take awhile to get used to.

[annabubbles]

To add on to what Rogers said, double flats are the same no matter what key you're in.

So even if a flat is in the key signature, you don't double the flat on the flat. Meaning in B flat minor (the key in your example), it says B double flat, you would play that as an A natural because you're double flatting the B natural, not the B flat.

Rule of thumb with double flats and sharps: ignore the key signature, and double flat or sharp whichever note the composer asks for.

Does any of that make sense? It can take awhile to get used to.

Ah, thank you! I think I get it now. (The flats in the key signature were throwing me off.)

Out of curiosity, what's the purpose of double flats? Wouldn't it be easier to just list a natural?

[scottmcc]

double flats have to do with music theory.  for instance, if you are in the key of C major and modulate to C minor, you would do so by adding 3 flats.  no problem, you went from zero flats to 3, and everything is covered.  however, if you are in the key of Db major (as you are in the example), you have 5 flats already.  but if you were to modulate to the minor key, Db minor, you would add 3 flats, right?  so that leaves you with 8 flats, and so they must go somewhere, thus the double flat on the B.  would it be easier to just write A natural?  in some cases, but it makes the math add up theory-wise and gives you an instant answer about what key you are in. 

the same thing happens in reverse on the sharp side of the scales--it looks like a little x. 

[nystul]

In this case it is supposed to be easier to read because of the chromatic movement.  If you made it A natural instead of Bbb, then you would have to put a flat in front of the next note.  Which for some reason they decided to do anyway, but it isn't necessary.

[bachbrahmsschubert]

May I ask what sheet music this is?

Double flats and sharps are most common in minor keys whose leading tone is on a black key. Take G sharp minor, the 7th note of the scale is F sharp. Mostly always the 7th scale degree of a minor key will be raised a half step. So, raising the F sharp creates an F double sharp. You would not write G natural, as G natural is not the leading tone (F# is). It's all very confusing to type out, so I'm probably not helping. The term used to describe this is enharmonics. Any theory book will cover this.
 

[tails]

is a fair example (ABRSM Exam grd. 7 2011-2012).

Double Flat means, lower the note by a "tone". Here's some listing (All double-flatted):
C = B-flat          ---              F = E-Flat         ------ D# (E-Flat) = C# (D-Flat)
D = C                    ---         G = F          ----------- F#(G-Flat) = E
E = D            ---                  A = G     ------ G# (A-Flat) = F# (G-Flat)
B = A              --- C# = B     ------- A#(Commonly known as B-Flat) = A-flat(G#)

I think I listed all of them (maybe)
Hope it helped. XD

[nystul]

Double Flat means, lower the note by a "tone". Here's some listing (All double-flatted):
C = B-flat          ---              F = E-Flat         ------ D# (E-Flat) = C# (D-Flat)
D = C                    ---         G = F          ----------- F#(G-Flat) = E
E = D            ---                  A = G     ------ G# (A-Flat) = F# (G-Flat)
B = A              --- C# = B     ------- A#(Commonly known as B-Flat) = A-flat(G#)

This is a problem.  If there is a double flat in the music notation you have to start from the natural state of that note, regardless of the key signature.  That is what got the original poster confused also.  You say from Eb it would go to Db.  This is not right from a notation perspective.  If the key signature has Eb, you use a double flat to lower the E to an Ebb which is enharmonic to D natural.  If the key signature has D#, there is very little chance you would use a double flat, but if you did it would change the D to a Dbb which is enharmonic to C natural.  You would never see a notation where the same note has a # and a b at the same time.  Accidentals always raise or lower the note from the natural state, regardless of the key signature or previous accidentals.

[tails]

oh but you will need to count too.
Hmm how to put this.
The Double flat is not affected by the key signature
so what I posted before always goes like that regardless of the key signature.
So the thought that if the signature has a flat on B (Bb), when you add a double-flat in front of B it doesn't make it Bbbb (A flat), it still becomes A Natural.
Well I'm not really good at explaining things much, I know what or how to do it myself.
But KIND OF hard to explain. I can explain but might require my time to choose the correct words.