yamaha vs. stainway

[paris]

what piano do you like more? yamaha or stainway?
i like yamaha the best

[Piazzo22]

what piano do you like more? yamaha or stainway?
i like yamaha the best

me too! don´t like Steinway´s tiny sound. Even with soft hammers. it is always like a scream or something, brrrr..

[paris]

i think they have especialy short beat (i don't know how to explain that in english) and they have ugly, very very ugly sound

[Piazzo22]

i think they have especialy short beat (i don't know how to explain that in english) and they have ugly, very very ugly sound

Yes, the sound doesn't last for too much.

[Motrax]

Yes, I've played a number of Steinways, and I'd say they are just living on their reputation alone. Steingraeber, right now, is my favorite piano manufacturer.

[paris]

it so annoying me-in every concert hall,bigger or smaller, or on every competiton is steinway!!!! i really hate that!

[pies]

­

[Piazzo22]

it so annoying me-in every concert hall,bigger or smaller, or on every competiton is steinway!!!! i really hate that!

you´re not alone. I NEED to listen famous pianists play other instruments!!

[Clare]

We have a steinway and a yamaha in the auditorium at school and the steinway always sounds WAY better, perhaps partly because the sound does decay faster and so is good for playing in big halls. However, up close the yamaha feels more satisfying to play.

[liszmaninopin]

When it comes to big pianos, I've played on most of the major brands except Yamaha.  Steinway was okay, Bosendorfer was good, Baldwin wasn't so good, I liked the Petrov, the Pearl River was tinny, the Young Chang was also tinny, the Kawai was very good...actually, I've never met a piano yet that I couldn't find something to complain about; but maybe that's just me.  I should give a Yamaha a try sometime.

[paris]

about kawai you mentioned-i like kawai pianos too, there is no big difference between yamaha and kawai (for me)

[Piazzo22]

about kawai you mentioned-i like kawai pianos too, there is no big difference between yamaha and kawai (for me)

To me it´s a completely different world. In sound and action too. I don´t like Kawai.

[LiszTMaN]

I used to own a Yahama C3 in my house but i have recently switched to a steinway model L. compared to the C3, the steinway kicks it *** ass. the C3 though bright lacks the tone color.

all you people are talking about the yahama giving you instant gratification but that is partially due to its extreme brightness. Steinway has a rich tonal quality and doesn't live off reputation. Why the hell do you think they usee them at major recitals and concerts. Have you ever seen a god damn Yahama at the walt disney concert hall or at carnegie hall.



KAWAI is an absolute joke. the only model that even warrants consideration is their RX-A which is tremendously overpriced.

The only competition for steinway is Bosendorfer but all the other brands like Yahama( all Japanese pianos in particular), all Korean Brands, all Chinese brands.

The good brands that are great for value, however, are Schimmel and Petrof.




IN conclusion, these are the best brands to buy.





1. Steinway
2. Bosendorfer
3. Petrof
4. Schimmel




Last: all mass maufactured pianos





Any how many of you have ever seen a Yahama concert grand in use at the Walt Disney Concert Hall?













YAHAMA is good for beginners but if you are advanced go for the brands listed above. Bright and Sharp tone= Jazzy pianists

[paris]

that's just your opinion lisZTmaN. everyone has his own best piano, and everyone is different, and
i'm CERTAINLY NOT a jazzy pianist. and all people who like to play on yamaha.

[pianojems]

I find that kawaii has a very dull muffled sound and a strange feeling action. I have played on both bad and good steinways and yamahas. I think that it depends on each individual pianos, and how they are tuned and voiced.

[matt_black]

depends on type of music you are playing, whzat sond you personally prefer and where the piano is siuated in terms of size of room and acoustics.

Maybe in a very small dull room the Yamanah would be better becasue it is bright

maybe in a concert hall a duller piano is better

one thing is for sure a lot of the benefits are to do with the room and acoustics and you could save  lot of mony on improving the opiano you curreently have by considering this - that is not to say a better piano will not sound better but it is the degree of benefit you are going to get versus the cost

[Spatula]

I personally find a Yamaha like a friend to talk to but the Steinway is a "formidable beast" that you must tame and become one with.  

That's just me

[Saturn]

YAHAMA is good for beginners

Beginners like Richter and Cziffra?

[Piazzo22]

Beginners like Richter and Cziffra?

That´s what I was going to say!

[bachmaninov]

Have you guys heard Cziffra's famous recordings of the Hungarian Rhapsodies?

He is playing on a 9 ft. Steinway... and the bass sounds like a grenade exploding! Soooooooooo good!

1. Steinway
2. Bosendorfer
3. Yamaha
4. Kawai

----I once played on some upright piano named "Kimball"... and I split my sides with laughter! How could they make such a good insturment... such an abomination!!!???

[paris]

anyone heard for piano named BELARUS? it isn't famous and good mark for piano (we can name it crap), but when i started to play, my parents didn't have money for better one, and they bought me belarus. guarantee was only 6 months! and i have had that piano for 12 years, and i still have it. i'm sure you haven't seen any piano like this.
i couldn't even recognise some tones!
now i have yamaha upright V124. it is amazing!

does who know if your bad piano can have effect on your playing? it can also unmotivate very much

[Pumpkinhead]

Hey guys. I hear that Petrof is one of the better brands. however, I own a Weinbach 6'. Someone said that it's the same brand as Petrof. Is it?

[in_love_with_liszt]

I hate the sound and feel of yamahas. Most have a light touch and I would say that Yamahas have a twangy (not tinny, twangy) sound to them. I personally like heavy Steinways with really fast action, and yes the bass in Cziffra's recording of the Hugarian Rhaps is awesome. Kawais are too slow, and actually some of my favorite pianos to play on are really old ones that are weird brands that are now out of business. My teacher has this grand piano that belonged to her great grandmother (it's so old you can't even read the label name on the key lid anymore) and it's really fun to play on, it has a nice rich sound and mouthwatering fast action. It's a little lighter than I prefer, but it still is pretty awesome. I also played on a really old grand piano at a Uni nearby, and it was a german brand I think....anyways that had a really rich sound and seemed to make the whole room pulse with the music.

[Rob47]

MY OPINION (so please don't start getting mad at me for the boldness of this statement) is that this is not a comparison.  Your trying to compare a bentley to a chevy. No, the interior of a bentley to the interior of a chevy.  Steinway is superior in every way to a Yamaha. Personally we all have piano's we like playing on.  I've practiced on many a yamaha grand in practice rooms, and it's great.  A lot of people don't get to practice on grand pianos every day.  But sound quality, feel/ability to control sound, lightness and heavieness, brightness, darkness.....I personally believe is completely on the side of steinway.

No offense yamaha lovers. And the only Bosendorfer i ever played on sucked.  the 3 black notes at the bottom were just dull mush.  This is likely because of something wrong with the piano though.  I'm pretty sure Bosendorfer's are incredible pianos.

I'm just going to post this without reading it over...if theres any run on sentences of my rambling I'm sorry.

Remeber that's just my opinion and not a personal jab at anyone!

your friend,

Rob

[breadboy]

for classical music the ratings go

hamburg steinway & fazioli at the top (fazioli is a 30 year old brand that is already considered in the very top of the piano world)

Bosendorfer and new york steinway next

and then everything else below them.

I'm only refering to the best models of every company
(D for steinway, 290 bosendorfer and F308 for Fazioli) because those are the only ones truely suitable for top end classical anyway.

The Yamaha CFIIIS however is a wonderful piano, I have played on 2 of them and they both outshine any other normal series Yamahas. They are excellent for classical, but not quite up there with the top models.

Now if your talking about some other type of music, Steinway probably isn't the best (especially if your talking about Pop where Yamaha tends to reign supreme with its trebely sound)

God bless

[Piazzo22]

Yamaha tends to reign supreme with its trebely sound)

I can asure Steinways have a much brighter sound than Yamahas. And I´m not talking about voicing.
Obviously, if you listen to a Yamaha with hardened hammers (at purpose, like many stores tend to do) it will tend to the bright zone. But Steinway´s soundboard always boost the high frequencies, even with soft hammers you can hear the difference with Yamaha.
It´s a different sound, and I like Yamaha´s sound more.
It has nothing to do the sound with the style of music you play. It´s all a matter of taste.
You know pianofortes of Mozart´s time were much brighter than todays pianos anyway.
So it has nothing to do if you play classical music or a malambo.

[Sketchee]

Isn't this more of an Instruments forum question rather than Student's Corner.

Anyway, I've never played on a Steinway but they do have a big reputation to live up to. My school has a set of Kawaii's and Yamahas.  I try to play different ones all the time to try to get a good sound from them.  The Kawaiis seem to light compared to the yamahas and they don't have dampers on some of the upper notes that usually do have them on most every other piano I've played.  Those are uprights though.  The kawaii grand they have is pretty good.  The yamaha tone is fairly bright but other than that they have a good sound.

[jbmajor]

I'd go so far as to say the people who rip on Steinway are those who can't afford one!!  Don't worry, neither can I yet, but that doesn't keep me from saying it's the most well-made piano on the market today.  
Steinways' frame casings are constructed from a single piece of wood, allowing for the incredible amount of tension on the strings, as well as the minimal extra amount of depth one has to depress the keys to sound each note.  And this, along with it's high quality strings, is primarily where all of its powerful bass sound comes from(and perhaps also why each note is short-lived).  
There is a reason why they are so expensive, and that is because they are largely considered the best, and are constructed with the best materials.  

[RachOn]

The thing to remember when discussing the quality of a Steinway piano is that it is impossible to speak of the the quality of Steinway's as a whole because of the numerous ups and downs the company has gone through.  A brief history:

Steinway was founded in 1853 by Henry Steinway.  They first recieved major public attention in 1855 with their square piano at the worlds fair.  In 1860 they concieved the overstrung grand piano, the forerunner to todays concert grand.  They continued steadily increasing in quality and dominating the world concert piano market until 1972, when they were bought by CBS who put to use teflon bushings on the piano instead of felt.  Obviously the resulting piano's were horrible.  That persisted for a few years but quickly went out of style due to the horrible product it turned out. Steinway returned to felt and at the same time upgraded all the machinery they had been using to make the piano, with CBS funding.  They started producing quality piano's again, but alas the pressure from CBS on mechanization wherever possible instead of hand making caused the piano's to never quite reach the level of pre CBS Steinways.  Very recently (no more than a year ago I believe) their felt company, based out of Italy, went out of business. As far as I know they have yet to find another felt producer that gives them the results they had of even post CBS Steinways, because post CBS Steinways were using the proper felt, they were just cutting corners on manufacture in other ways.  Of course CBS has not stopped cutting corners, and now their felt will have to be downgraded, so we can expect a pretty glum outlook on the future of Steinway piano's, at least in the short term. That having been said:

Steinways from around 1910 to the 1972 buyout are absolutely magnificent, far greater than anything else man has created, in my opinion.  Yamaha might be close to exceeding the quality of Steinway (perhaps already has) for newly manufactured piano's, BUT reconditioned Steinways from the pre CBS days are still the best insturments on the market, bar none.  That is not a matter of opinion: that is a scientificly varifiable fact in terms of quality of manufacture: no one has ever put more care into their piano's then Steinway did in the golden years.  I have played several brand new Steinway piano's costin from around forty thousand U.S. to seventy five thousand U.S. at a Steinway piano hall and they were almost without exception crap.  But the Steinway I have in my house, a 1929 reconditioned in 2001 Steinway, is the best insturment I have ever touched.  I've played two concert grands Steinways at actual concert halls, I've played tons of Yamaha's, Kawai's, Young Chan's, and none of them would be worthy to polish the middle pedal on the Steinway I own, or for that matter, the other reconditioned Steinway's for sale in New York City's Steinway Headquarters.  

[jbmajor]

Thanks for the info, RachOn; I didn't know that.  It's a shame Steinway sold their company(why would they do such a thing?  For such an old family run company there must have been a supposed good reason to hand it over to someone else).  Now I'll know to get an older one when I actually have the money for it.  

I hope they can do something about CBS so they can start making quality pianos again.  From what you said, I think it's unacceptable the way the company is now being run.

[breadboy]

The thing to remember when discussing the quality of a Steinway piano is that it is impossible to speak of the the quality of Steinway's as a whole because of the numerous ups and downs the company has gone through.  A brief history:

Steinway was founded in 1853 by Henry Steinway.  They first recieved major public attention in 1855 with their square piano at the worlds fair.  In 1860 they concieved the overstrung grand piano, the forerunner to todays concert grand.  They continued steadily increasing in quality and dominating the world concert piano market until 1972, when they were bought by CBS who put to use teflon bushings on the piano instead of felt.  Obviously the resulting piano's were horrible.  That persisted for a few years but quickly went out of style due to the horrible product it turned out. Steinway returned to felt and at the same time upgraded all the machinery they had been using to make the piano, with CBS funding.  They started producing quality piano's again, but alas the pressure from CBS on mechanization wherever possible instead of hand making caused the piano's to never quite reach the level of pre CBS Steinways.  Very recently (no more than a year ago I believe) their felt company, based out of Italy, went out of business. As far as I know they have yet to find another felt producer that gives them the results they had of even post CBS Steinways, because post CBS Steinways were using the proper felt, they were just cutting corners on manufacture in other ways.  Of course CBS has not stopped cutting corners, and now their felt will have to be downgraded, so we can expect a pretty glum outlook on the future of Steinway piano's, at least in the short term. That having been said:

Steinways from around 1910 to the 1972 buyout are absolutely magnificent, far greater than anything else man has created, in my opinion.  Yamaha might be close to exceeding the quality of Steinway (perhaps already has) for newly manufactured piano's, BUT reconditioned Steinways from the pre CBS days are still the best insturments on the market, bar none.  That is not a matter of opinion: that is a scientificly varifiable fact in terms of quality of manufacture: no one has ever put more care into their piano's then Steinway did in the golden years.  I have played several brand new Steinway piano's costin from around forty thousand U.S. to seventy five thousand U.S. at a Steinway piano hall and they were almost without exception crap.  But the Steinway I have in my house, a 1929 reconditioned in 2001 Steinway, is the best insturment I have ever touched.  I've played two concert grands Steinways at actual concert halls, I've played tons of Yamaha's, Kawai's, Young Chan's, and none of them would be worthy to polish the middle pedal on the Steinway I own, or for that matter, the other reconditioned Steinway's for sale in New York City's Steinway Headquarters.  

the good steinways cost much more than 70 thousand, you'd pay 92 thousand for a new york model D and 150 or so for a hamburg. besides that, almost every concert artist disagrees with you in that they all play newer steinways, not older reconditioned models. Fazioli is the brand to watch though, with only 30 years as a piano maker they are already starting to pass steinway as the worlds greatest. Yamaha is not anywhere close to newer steinways for classical music as almost noone plays them in concert. I have played 2 of their 110 grand model CFIIIS's, and while they were nice, they certainly arn't steinways. As far as scientifically verifiable... huh... are you kidding me... nobody verifies what your saying. Steinways of today are still exceptionally crafted, and you certainly must have played a model D to be able to sound off on this point so loudly. Again, check out what ever major concert artist plays and in more than 90 percent of the cases it will be a steinway (an certainly not a pre 73 one)

[RachOn]

the good steinways cost much more than 70 thousand, you'd pay 92 thousand for a new york model D and 150 or so for a hamburg. besides that, almost every concert artist disagrees with you in that they all play newer steinways, not older reconditioned models. Fazioli is the brand to watch though, with only 30 years as a piano maker they are already starting to pass steinway as the worlds greatest. Yamaha is not anywhere close to newer steinways for classical music as almost noone plays them in concert. I have played 2 of their 110 grand model CFIIIS's, and while they were nice, they certainly arn't steinways. As far as scientifically verifiable... huh... are you kidding me... nobody verifies what your saying. Steinways of today are still exceptionally crafted, and you certainly must have played a model D to be able to sound off on this point so loudly. Again, check out what ever major concert artist plays and in more than 90 percent of the cases it will be a steinway (an certainly not a pre 73 one)

Actually I play a 6"1 baby grand, which is better than the new Model D I play occasionally at school.  But more to the point:

Allow me to qualify a few of my statements above as they may have been a bit over the top.  I have played new concert grands, a few, and none have been as good as my old school one.  But they weren't in major concert halls.  So perhaps they hadn't received the proper attention, tuning, voicing, etc.  I have played numerous (very numerous, more than thirty) new Steinways of varying length that were not as good as my current. Again not ina concert hall so I can't be sure, but they were in a Steinway ceritified piano dealer.  Perhaps he got particularly bad pianos for one reason or another, I don't know.  But from personal experience, I'll recap: I've played tons of Steinways, new and old.  None of the new were close to as good as my old reconditioned one.  Including two D models, not in actual concert halls, which were new and not as good as my old.  Perhaps Concert Hall new Model D's are better for some reason.  But from experience I must conclude that old reconditioned ones are better.  And another reason might be because Halls that have deals with Steinway are not going to put an old Steinway in their hall, they will put a new one: perhaps Steinway doesn't want to admit its previous piano's are better than its current.  Only a possibility tho, not a certainty.

[mh88]

not a fan of either...prefer mason & hamlin...gloriously rich and deep sound

[breadboy]

Actually I play a 6"1 baby grand, which is better than the new Model D I play occasionally at school.  But more to the point:

Allow me to qualify a few of my statements above as they may have been a bit over the top.  I have played new concert grands, a few, and none have been as good as my old school one.  But they weren't in major concert halls.  So perhaps they hadn't received the proper attention, tuning, voicing, etc.  I have played numerous (very numerous, more than thirty) new Steinways of varying length that were not as good as my current. Again not ina concert hall so I can't be sure, but they were in a Steinway ceritified piano dealer.  Perhaps he got particularly bad pianos for one reason or another, I don't know.  But from personal experience, I'll recap: I've played tons of Steinways, new and old.  None of the new were close to as good as my old reconditioned one.  Including two D models, not in actual concert halls, which were new and not as good as my old.  Perhaps Concert Hall new Model D's are better for some reason.  But from experience I must conclude that old reconditioned ones are better.  And another reason might be because Halls that have deals with Steinway are not going to put an old Steinway in their hall, they will put a new one: perhaps Steinway doesn't want to admit its previous piano's are better than its current.  Only a possibility tho, not a certainty.

first cbs does not own steinway anymore, a quote:

"CBS sold it 1985

"The Selmer Company, Inc. and Steinway Musical Properties, Inc. (SMP) announced that they have entered into a binding- merger agreement. SMP is the owner of Steinway & Sons, makers of the world famous Steinway piano, and Selmer is a renowned maker of band and orchestral instruments. "

This was 1995"

second, there is a possibility that your ears are telling you something that most people disagree with. For example there are a few classical artists that play with Yamahas, most others however would never even consider using a Yamaha for playing a recital. When it comes to pianos you really can only say this is this and that is that. Its not like X+2=4 where X is always going to be 2. Tone is a very personal thing, but for the vast majority of pianists, professional and just lovers of the instrument who play classical, a 6'1 piano doesn't have the tonal characteristics to come close to a D no matter when it was made. You should play a Hamburg D, those most would argue are the best flat out. Also try a Fazioli of any type, in 20 years those will most likely be the best. (they already pretty much are but the artists haven't all shifted over)

God bless

[Piazzo22]

Also try a Fazioli of any type, in 20 years those will most likely be the best. (they already pretty much are but the artists haven't all shifted over)

God bless

That´s true. Although Fazioli don´t do the marketing strategies that Steinway do. So it will be really tough.
You know, Steinway will do anything to make an artist not play any other instrument than theirs.

It seems I have to show this every time any Steinway defender appears.

From the New York Times (Arts):

====================================================================================

Piano Versus Piano
By MICHAEL Z. WISE

Published: May 9, 2004


It has been more than three decades since Steinway & Sons punished Garrick Ohlsson for endorsing a rival piano maker in an interview with The New York Times. "It was enormously vindictive," Mr. Ohlsson said recently about the aftermath of his comment, on the eve of a 1972 Alice Tully Hall concert, that Bösendorfer was "the Rolls-Royce of pianos."
Steinway swiftly retaliated by trucking away the concert grand Mr. Ohlsson was about to play. Mr. Ohlsson ended up performing on a Bösendorfer borrowed at the 11th hour, but Steinway barred him from using its instruments for some time. He has long since made his peace with Steinway, and he now says diplomatically, "An artist's job is not to endorse a piano but to play the best instrument available."
Yet accusations of hard-knuckled dealing continue to circulate among titans of the keyboard as Bösendorfer and other manufacturers mount renewed challenges to Steinway's overwhelming dominance of the high-end piano market. Bösendorfer — a 175-year-old Austrian firm whose instruments were played by Liszt, Brahms, Dvorak and Bernstein — has now opened its first New York showroom and begun pushing to get its pianos more widely heard, and seen, on American concert stages.
Bechstein — a venerable German maker whose 150th anniversary just coincided with Steinway's — introduced a newly designed concert grand in January. A relative newcomer, Fazioli, is attracting a following among performers, some of whom are running afoul of Steinway in the process. Yamaha, a Japanese manufacturer whose piano is the official instrument of the Metropolitan Opera, is to open a new two-story service center in midtown Manhattan on May 18 catering to concert artists and orchestras. In addition, the American firm of Mason & Hamlin, which stopped making concert grands in 1984, plans to unveil a re-engineered instrument by the middle of next year.
Having watched Steinway, the top piano makers understand that concert grands can give invaluable credibility and cachet to their brands. "They are trying to emulate everything we do," said Bruce Stevens, the president of Steinway. As Robert Winter, a music historian at U.C.L.A., wrote in The New York Review of Books last fall, "The predominance of Steinway in the 20th century is as much a product of brilliant marketing as of engineering innovation."
Some see the marketing as going too far. The music critic Greg Sandow recently complained on ArtsJournal.com about "Steinway's flagrant self-promotion" in plastering its name and logo in "slightly gaudy letters" on the sides of instruments onstage at Carnegie Hall. "This is gross," he wrote. "The practice really ought to stop."
Other manufacturers routinely use similar displays. According to Peter Goodrich, vice president for concert and artist activities at Steinway, the practice dates back to the mid-19th century and has waxed and waned ever since. It has been revived on a larger scale in the last decade, a sign of intensifying rivalries.
"There is much more competition now," Vladimir Ashkenazy said from Zurich. "But Steinway is still beyond reach."
Mr. Ashkenazy is among many celebrated artists Steinway uses to burnish its image. Other makers try to do the same, but Steinway is the master of this strategy, pioneered in the 19th century when it sponsored the American tours of Ignace Paderewski and Anton Rubinstein. By the 1920's, Steinway was running ads proclaiming its piano the "instrument of the immortals," a slogan still in use.
According to Steinway, some 1,300 performing concert pianists in the world, more than 90 percent, are now formally associated with the company, including Mr. Ashkenazy, Emanuel Ax, Murray Perahia and Mitsuko Uchida. They all own Steinways and are expected to perform exclusively on the company's instruments. Affiliation as a Steinway artist ensures performers access to an array of instruments for recitals and recordings. Other manufacturers have their own chosen artists — Bösendorfer claims Andras Schiff, André Previn and Oscar Peterson; Yamaha, Elton John, Chick Corea and Norah Jones — but the scale is altogether different.

As in sports, the vying for celebrity endorsements starts early in the career cycle, when the most talented students are lured to play a particular maker's piano in international contests. "In competitions, there is a real war," said Jerome Lowenthal, who teaches at the Juilliard School and has judged the Van Cliburn and Tchaikovsky competitions. "All kinds of things go on." No other firm can match Steinway at providing concert-ready instruments for stages around the United States. "We are successful because of the instrument," Mr. Stevens said, suggesting that Steinway artists, who receive no payment for their affiliation, feel the same. "It's the finest piano made today."
Mr. Lowenthal, a Steinway artist, concurs: "Steinway has always relied on making the best piano and assuming that pianists care deeply about quality."
But the gloves come off when other makers talk about Steinway's impressive artist roster. "They deprive pianists of their liberty," Paolo Fazioli said from his factory near Venice. A number of Steinway artists have commented enthusiastically about Faziolis since they were developed in 1979. As Fazioli has gained prominence in recent years, Steinway has removed several stellar names from its list for disloyalty.
"They are sometimes abusing the liberty and weakness of the artists who are afraid of negative consequences," Mr. Fazioli said. "They use these things to intimidate artists from playing other pianos."
Angela Hewitt, a leading interpreter of Bach, was removed from the Steinway roster two years ago after she purchased and performed on a Fazioli, even though her recordings to that point had all been made on Steinways. "It's a shame that it gets a bit dirty," she said. "A lot of people don't know there are wonderful alternatives out there. The Steinway is beautiful, but it doesn't give you the subtlety or the finesse that you get from a Fazioli."
Nikolai Demidenko, who was also dropped from the Steinway roster, asked, "Did anybody ever complain to Paganini that he used a Guarneri and not the Stradivari violin?"
Complain is just what Steinway did when another of its artists, Louis Lortie, performed on a Fazioli — to rave reviews — at Carnegie Hall last November. "I was shocked to see him playing the Fazioli," said Mr. Goodrich, of Steinway. The firm gives leeway to artists when a Steinway is unavailable or when the one at hand is in poor condition. But this was certainly not the case at Carnegie Hall. Mr. Lortie could have had his pick from a bank of superlative concert grands at Steinway's flagship showroom, just across the street. "I don't want anyone on our roster," Mr. Goodrich said, "who doesn't want to play the Steinway exclusively."
Undeterred, Mr. Lortie has kept performing on Faziolis as well as Steinways (of which he owns three.) "I'm not exclusive to anyone," he said. "Steinway can go from the sublime to the ridiculous. There is no brand in the world that can ensure perfection. If they show they are worried like this, then they are not so certain about their production."
Mr. Lortie considered playing a Fazioli on April 29, when he made two appearances on a single evening, first as a substitute with the New York Philharmonic at Avery Fisher Hall, then in recital at the Metropolitan Museum. He decided against it, he said, because it would have been "dangerous" to switch to the Italian instrument at the museum after playing on a Steinway at Lincoln Center. "With deepest gratitude," read the card on flowers sent by Steinway at the end of that double bill.
"It was the biggest bouquet I've ever had in my life," Mr. Lortie said, adding that he had every intention of continuing to play a Fazioli whenever he felt it best served his needs even if Steinway stopped paying him tribute. "They want to be the Microsoft of pianos."
Other Steinway artists who have performed on Faziolis in recent months include Mr. Ashkenazy, Herbie Hancock and Piers Lane.
"They are like a woman who is very jealous of another beautiful woman," Yaara Tal, a Munich-based pianist, said of Steinway's attitude toward other leading pianos. Ms. Tal recorded works by Schubert on a Fazioli before she joined Steinway's ensemble roster with her duo partner, Andreas Groethuysen, in 1997, and she still performs on Faziolis periodically.
"I'm sure that Steinway is the best instrument until now," she said. "But I would be a very bad artist if I were not looking for an instrument with which I can realize my musical fantasy. Always in life you have temptation, and you're curious."
Glenn Gould once jilted Steinway for Yamaha. André Watts, Claudio Arrau and Dave Brubeck jumped ship for Baldwin. But Baldwin filed for bankruptcy in 2001 and now operates on a far smaller scale. Steinway consolidated its position by quickly taking over Baldwin's agreements to supply the Chicago Symphony, the Philadelphia Orchestra and the Boston Symphony. Now, one might think the company was in a position to ignore its competition. But Mr. Goodrich acknowledged that Fazioli, which produces fewer than 100 pianos a year, compared with 4,000 by Steinway, "keeps us on our toes."
While concert artists say they are pleased that competition drives up standards, some still feel that Steinway's hegemony has left them with too little choice, since they believe that certain repertory sounds better on another instrument. "It is brainwashing," said Andras Schiff of Steinway's market strategy. He went on several European stages last winter playing both a Bösendorfer and a Steinway in the same concert, changing with the piece. He added, "It's as if the car industry were such that everybody was obligated to drive a Mercedes."
Valentina Lisitsa, a Ukrainian-born pianist who prefers Bösendorfers, said she had encountered roadblocks to playing one at some of her American concerts. "They created all kinds of difficulties," Ms. Lisitsa said of the response to her insistence on playing a Bösendorfer with the Atlanta Symphony in October. "Steinway tried everything to get me to play Steinway, including some Steinway representative waiting for me in my dressing room right before the concert and asking me in not a very polite way why would I choose to play another piano."
Steinway's Southeast district sales manager, Victor Geiger, confirmed that he spoke to Ms. Lisitsa in Atlanta. "Whenever an artist is in the vicinity, I always introduce myself and ask whether we can do anything," he said. "We believe an artist has the right to play the instrument that best suits their needs." The administration of the Atlanta Symphony, which owns two Steinway recital instruments, denied that there was any difficulty.
Bösendorfer established a new foothold last June when it became the official piano of the Blue Note, the famous jazz club in Greenwich Village. A news release announcing the Blue Note's decision included an endorsement from the pianist Billy Taylor, a Steinway artist who had played a Bösendorfer at the club.
"Steinway went ballistic," said Steven Bensusan, the club's owner, and another release was issued without Mr. Taylor's name.
"I liked that particular piano," Mr. Taylor said after the switch. "But I prefer the Steinway."
In another bid for increased exposure among American musicians, Bösendorfer has placed a concert grand at the rehearsal studio of the Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center, where, the company says, artists like Lang Lang and Peter Serkin have tried it out.
"It can't be that everybody wants to hear music played always on the same piano," said Bösendorfer's United States representative, Gerhard Feldmann. "With older pianists it's probably useless to get started, but we want to give younger pianists a choice."
With Steinway posting a gross profit of $61 million on 2003 piano sales from both its New York and its Hamburg factories, the company looks secure against challengers.
"They're nibbling around the edges of Steinway's market," said Larry Fine, the author of a leading guide to pianos. "But sales are still small, and I don't see them as a serious threat to Steinway."
Still, the prospect of greater instrumental diversity is welcomed by many. "What's happening can only be good for music," Mr. Lowenthal said.
James Palermo, the director of the Grant Park Music Festival in Chicago, agreed: "It's a healthy thing that we can hear different pianos, and that everyone has a fair shake. The color palette you can get from different instruments makes the music more interesting in the end. We suffer from this generic quality now, where everything has to be done a certain way. As the French say, `Vive la difference!' "
Michael Wise is a contributing editor to Travel & Leisure and Architecture magazines. He plays a Bechstein upright.