Hitting the progress wall

[rigman]

Hi there everyone. This is an excellent forum and good for people like myself learning this great musical instrument.

I started playing a few years ago but then due to work commitments and lack of time I stopped my lessons. I reached the point where I was starting to learn grade 2 pieces although I remember really starting to struggle with progress. That was around 4 years ago.

I recently started to play again and have within a couple of months and all my old books reached the same point. I feel like I have hit a progress wall again. I am trying to learn a grade 2 piece but even after many hours of practicing the piece I hesitate, hit wrong notes etc. I can play it fine HS but then when the hands go together it all seems to fall apart.

Do other students also have this problem and can you give me any advice of how to proceed. I do have a teacher but again due to work can only see her for 2 weeks out of 5 (I work away from home but use a portable keyboard for practice when I am away)

thanks for any advice.

[keyboardclass]

If you're hitting wrong notes you're not playing slow enough.

[bleicher]

Put the hands together one bar at a time, memorising as you go. Work out how to play the first bar hands together, then close the book and play it from memory. When you can do that, learn the second bar, then the first two bars, and so on.

[rigman]

Thanks for the replies. I suppose its more the hesitating that is the problem. Hitting the wrong notes is not that often but what frustrates me is that a section I get through fine in one practice falls apart the next. These are only short pieces as well so it id doubly frustrating that if I am like this with a short piece what chance do I have with a long piece.

Is what I am going through normal or is it just me 

Darren

[brogers70]

It's normal to plateau for a while. It's hard to know exactly what the problem is, but if you are practicing for hours and not getting the piece under control, my guess is that you are just playing it over an over again. As Bleicher suggested, I think you need to break pieces up into manageable bits. Bernhard (OWPB) used to say that you should work on a section small enough that by playing it seven times you can get it uner your fingers, even if that means the "section" is just two notes. So I'd guess you need to break things up ito smaller bits than you have been. Don't get discouraged by the time it takes to learn a piece. It will definitely get easier and faster.

[nowinterweather]

Look for wherever the music seems to have a natural break or where it might seem to resolve (this should happen every few bars). Make a copy of the piece, and mark in anything that might help you remember (i.e. highlight similar phrases, write in timing for tricky parts, mark sharps/flats, etc.). After you've done that, practice with both hands separately for as long as you need (start very slowly at first). After you can play it comfortably and up to speed with both hands separately, put it together slowly, and speed up after you can play it slowly comfortably.

Anyway, this is just some basic advice for learning pieces. One other thing that always helps me with plateaus is just switching my practice routine a bit (since you're not as bound to a teacher this won't be as much of a problem for you). Maybe just spend a week on scales and theory, or consider learning a different piece. Try learning something from a different style of music, and then come back to the other piece later.

And yes, plateaus are normal, don't worry. 

[keyboardclass]

You won't get far with excuses.  Your brain doesn't know what is correct playing and what is in error.  It remembers everything, hesitations and all.  Don't feed it anything you don't want given back.  Patience, patience.

[slane]

I am probably in a similar position to you. 30 years ago I was playing Grade 5 pieces but decades of neglect have put me back at about grade 3.
KBC is right, you don't want to learn mistakes or hesitations. It takes much longer to unlearn a mistake than learn it right in the first place. If you find yourself making a mistake go over and over that bit, with a bit before and after, and make sure each repitition is perfect. Slow it down until it is and then speed up again.

One thing i've decided is "truth" after reading Elissa Milne's blog and that is  its better to make a wide base of experience for yourself at a comfortable level, say Grade 2, before stepping up to a harder level. So you progress sideways before progressing upwards. This is the same way children learn to read, with lots and lots of readers at a certain level, giving them a secure base, before jumping up to the next level. And if you've ever taught anyone to read you'll know it takes an amazingly long time, years and years, to reach fluency and that's what you're trying to do with your piano.
So be kind to yourself.

[dcstudio]

try listening to your piece--a recording that is--listen many, many, times until you can hear it in your head perfectly when you are away from your IPOD.   Next, try hearing that recording in your head as you play, let the sound of that recording, not your eyes on the page, (or a visual memory of the sheet music)  trigger your fingers to play.  feel the music in your ears--not your eyes. this should solve your hesitation issues.  also, if your hands are in ANY WAY stiff or tense, you will not achieve the flow of motion you are seeking.
  I teach this stuff, every day--this works for my students. It worked for me when I was young and had the same issues.

[keyboardclass]

also, if your hands are in ANY WAY stiff or tense, you will not achieve the flow of motion you are seeking.

This could very well be your problem.

[rigman]

Thank you all so much for your good and varied advice. I will comment on a few of the points here
I was always under the impression that learning a piece rather than reading the music was counterproductive to good sight reading. However having said that, the piece I am trying to play has a tricky (for me  )  end section with both hands moving up the keys and I have found that I cannot read it and play at the same time due to having to make sure my fingers land on the right notes. I have therefore memorised that section.

Listening to the piece played by someone that can play did help me a great deal when I was going through Jazz, Rags and Blues by Martha Mier. Youtube was an excellent source but I cannot find this piece I am trying to get right anywhere on the internet. It is an from an old abrsm grade 2 book (2005/6) called Barcarolle.

My teacher likes jazz type pieces and is going to start me on Paino time jazz book 2 so hopefully that will give me some variety. It is myself who asked to be given some grade pieces so I can assess where I am against a recognised standard.

I will do the slow play and hopefully be able to get this one right in the next couple of weeks. I can play normal speed HS its the HT where I am struggling.

again thanks for all of your help.
Darren

[keyboardclass]

Listening to the piece played by someone that can play did help me a great deal when I was going through Jazz, Rags and Blues by Martha Mier. Youtube was an excellent source but I cannot find this piece I am trying to get right anywhere on the internet. It is an from an old abrsm grade 2 book (2005/6) called Barcarolle.

Post the sheet and I'll have a go if it's of any use to you.

[dcstudio]

I know that you are under the impression that "playing by ear" which what you think I'm asking you to do, is counterproductive--but connecting the note you see to the device in your brain that triggers your hand to move--instead of to sound--is devastating to all musicians.  My sister just did her dissertation on this.  Yes, you must learn to read--but sightreading is just ONE skill you must develop in order to master this instrument.  The ability to sightread does NOT automatically make you a great musician. (take a minute to think about that one, it's kinda tough to believe at first..) as a teacher I see this repeatedly.  Students will think they must stare at that sheet music and they must read it and using their ear is forbidden. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.   Making MUSIC is the goal here.  YOU MUST USE YOUR EAR TO DO THIS--another point students really have trouble with--esp, 5-8 yr. experienced students--  they will continue to stare at that sheet music long past the point where it is necessary.  most also have a well developed fear of "hard" looking sheet music--accidentals, odd keys, new rhythms, etc.  I've seen so many students MAKE a piece hard to play just because it "looks" hard.  hands tense, frustration  mounts and hope for success fades quickly.

You have realized that what you can read and what you can play are not the same thing--that's why you memorized that section.  Also, what's hard to READ is not necessarily hard to PLAY!!! these 2 facts are forgotten by most students.  This is a big step fwd for you!!

try not to forget it! 

best of luck!

Laurie 

[tunneller]

.....into manageable bits. Bernhard (OWPB) used to say...

What is OWBP ??

Thanks, T