I don't like Bosendorfers

[spencervirt]

Yes, you heard me properly. Today, I played a Bosendorfer imperial and a Bosendorfer standard grand and disliked them both. Am I crazy?

I found them both to have such a small sound. In addition, I thought the touch sensitivity was actually very poor.

I did like the bass, which was very clear, but was overall very underwhelmed.

Perhaps they were poorly managed?

I played mostly Chopin and Liszt on them, but tried some Beethoven. I thought the piano did better with Beethoven.

I played a petrof (9 ft) and liked it much better. My favorite is still Steinway.

Thoughts?

[ignaz]

I agree. I have not found one I really like as well but the real issue is not that they are bad pianos because they sound different.  They should not be compared to Steinways.  Both companies have different visions of what they want a piano to sound like.
Both companies use different woods in key areas like the rim and are really aiming at a different customer.  The reason both are often compared is that the are both expensive pianos.
Bosendorfers are made in Vienna with a mellower actually a clearer sound but with less volume.
(chamber music or earlier classical music like mozart, bach etc.)
Steinways are designed and built to be louder and of course project the sound farther.
(Concert hall or later classical music, Rachmaninoff).
I believe we have been exposed to the modern Steinway sound more than the Bosendorfer sound and we will always steer to the Steinway sound because its what we know.

[spencervirt]

Thank you for this input!

I find that very interesting. I wonder if I couldn't come to enjoy the unique Bosendorfer sound. If anything, the piano does have a mystique

[john90]

I think Petrof do a good job of being close to a Steinway but for less money. I don't agree that the Steinway sound is liked because it is heard more often, or because it is what we know. I think it is genuinely good, researched, perfected over the years. It has had so much centre stage attention, pop stars using it, classical pianists, it gets better and better. Having Steinway samples in a digital piano is one way of getting you fed up with them. It makes the right sound, but it is always the same right sound, the same slightly out of tuneness which makes it realistic at first hearing. I think Boesendorfer is very different, fewer people have the expertise to manage one, and I guess it takes time to learn how to play one. You just can't drive it the same way. Valentina Lisitsa makes a good job of playing them, and as a listener, I have been in a concert hall with a big Bosie, I wasn't near the front and it was really great.

[asiantraveller101]

Sometimes the pianos that you have tried out may not have been worked on by the technicians, or prepped by the stores. I do prefer Bosendorfers, in comparison to Steinways, but that is a personal taste. I once played a concerto on a Bonsendorfer concert grand, and it was glorious! Its ringing treble and booming bass, could penetrate the orchestra.
Petrof is a good piano in general, but needs a lot of prepped work to get it to top shape. I find the workmanship a little shoddy.
Personal favorite: Steingraeber. Once I tried a concert grand, and I almost died and went to heaven! 

[pianolive]

I wish pianists would choose the piano that is suitable for the music they play.
All the top pianos from Steinway, Bösendorfer, Bechstein, Fazioli, Steingraeber, Grotrian, Yamaha have their qualities.
I have prepared pianos for a lot of high class recordings, and today Steinway is the nr one in use. I am not sure it is because of the sound. It is rather that the pianists are grown up with Steinway and they know exactly how the action responds. There is no surprise.
Now, all these recordings sound the same - there is no exciting about them. Recording for a week and then cut the music to pieces and put together the best parts for the records. And the same sound on all records.

I thank God for the Köln Concert by Keith Jarrett. Played on a worn out baby grand from Bösendorfer - The best sold solo piano jazz record of all times 

[keys60]

Well here's the deal with Steinway. They provide sweetheart deals with so many performers for advertising purposes. They provide payment and free pianos, and then in the contract, do not allow the performers to perform on different pianos. Once SW has their hooks in you, they won't let go. I agree. A performer should be allowed to play on the piano of their choice on stage. Even if they were, more than likely, the venue they are playing has a sweetheart deal with a particular manufacturer too.

[john90]

Bosendorfer seem to be more open in terms of sponsoring, Boesendorfer pianists like Valentina Lisitsa still appear on Youtube playing other top makes.

[steinway_d]

You probably played a good petof and bad bosendorfers.
I found the contrary.
The 290 was amazing.
and the petrof was ok.

good luck.

steinway_d

[dedilya]

It is difficult matter. Andras Schiff plays Bose, and his Haydn and Bach are great. I just got Hamelin's Haydn, also great, but sound is not that pure sweet, more bitter-sweet. I would think this is Steinway. This is just general difference between European ans American pianos (Steinway, Mason&Hamlin, Baldwin). Even Boston and Kawai are different in this respect being made on the same factory (nothing wrong about Kawai RX, beautiful piano). I think we are lucky that we can select piano we like (if we can afford  )...

[rua1jr]

I have owned a 9 foot Baldwin and a Steinway D rebuilt from the concert series out of Carnegie Hall; actually had them in the same room for a while for 2-piano music. 
The Steinway D was bright and had amazing action.
    Then I met a Bosendorfer Imperial brought into Silicon Valley for an Oscar Peterson concert and fell in love at first sight (actually first touch and hearing).  This was in 1983.  I bought it and have loved it ever since.  It is perfect for my great room with 23 foot ceilings and hardwood floors.  By coincidence I was given custody of a 1940s Imperial Bosendorfer (two pedals) and amazing tone and action--better than the Steinway.  Had been in Viennese Concert Hall and recorded a Mozart concerto by Leonard Bernstein and autographed by Aldo Ciccolini.  The two Imperials made fantastic 2-piano music.  I sold the older one to a friend who was a better pianist.
     I believe it is all in the voicing and regulation plus the room.  It's like everything else in life that expresses you.

[keys60]

To each their own, I guess. Bosies are a fantastic instrument but not for everyone. Tastes vary. Hardly means its an inferior instrument.

[hbofinger]

I for one had one and I loved it.  But it is a different instrument. Build quality is superb, though.

[swansonjw]

In 1997 I was in the market for a new piano, and went to Steinway Hall in NYC.  The front showroom has walls of stone, and any piano you play there will sound horrible just because of the acoustics.  The rear showroom is much larger and with much less echo, and any piano you play there sounds dead.  In addition, the pianos have been inconsistent for many years now.  One is bright, another dark.  During a Q&A session, the 5 Browns also mentioned this inconsistency.  They said they had difficulty finding 5 9-foot Steinways with the same tone qualities.  I left Steinway Hall and went to Beethoven Pianos a few blocks away and played a 5'8" Bosendorfer and was blown away.  I bought the piano and continue to be blown away after all these years.

[starstruck5]

You are very lucky to get to play a Bosendorfer!  I believe they are now owned by Yamaha, though that wouldn't impact on their quality of course!

We all have different tastes, but you probabaly need to play a few Bosendorfers to make a judgment and not just one. It might have been set up badly, as others have pointed out. Reputation is no guarantee that you will find something amazing. If anyone wants to donate a Ferrari for me to test this theory then please send me a PM - !

[hbofinger]

Here are my thoughts on this (I already posted earlier, but I am expanding, after a couple of Pinot Grigios):

Every piano is different. And pianos age differently. And then, when something gets rebuilt, a star may become a dud, and a dud may become as star.

But there are some "philosophical" differences in piano sound and construction. They have nothing to do with quality of build, rather with what the intended outcome is.

Bösis, as most European pianos, search for what is called the "fundamental" tone. Interestingly, so do some Asians, such as Yamaha.

The sound we are used to in the U.S. is focused on harmonics, overtones, and projection.  A concert pianist friend of mine, who is an adjunct professor at the Hamburger Musikshochschule (Germany's Juliard) and a former student of Kempff's put it this way: "New York Steinway is built to project at the most power for a concert hall, Hamburg is built to be able to play anything on any repertoire."

Where does this fit into your question? Most pianos we hear are duplexed, and Bösendorfer is generally (with one distinct experimental exception) not. Where you hear the quality of a good Bösi is in the enormous color of the bass, where it might let you down is in a singing, but not able to keep up with,the bass, upper treble. With some Bösis this can be a glaring problem, but with others I have played the lack of duplexing did not harm the balance of the piano. It's a crap shot.

I've had one Austrain pianist tell me that Bösi, because of that singing, not imposing quality of the treble, is the ideal piano for Mozart - Schiff does his Schubert piano sonatas on one recording at least on a Bösi.

I've just been to South Africa, and visited the notoriously pompous and garish "Sun City". In the main restaurant area of this pomposity they had an Imperial. It was not in the greatest shape, but listening to it more carefully, and discounting for some obvious buzzes and stuff that simply is not supposed to happen, I knew once again why Liszt was taken with the instrument...

(Disclaimer: Owned a Bösi, previously a Blüthner, and now a Yammi C7)

(Other disclaimer:  I now am wondering if I will ever own a NON-duplexed piano again. This is my first duplexed, and the difference int he upper treble in keeping up with the bass is unbelievable...)

[pianoplayjl]

The thing that I like about besendorfers is that some have an extra few keys in the bass.

[willvenables]

I would say a Bosendorfer is the complete opposite of a Steinway.

Steinway are designed to have a strong, bold, projective tone with bell-like clarity in the treble. They are best voiced brightly so allow this characteristic to come through. As with many piano makers, the Steinway rim is made of hard woods to reflect soundboard resonance. This focuses the resonant energy within the soundboard. The carcass of the piano is rock solid and acoustically stubborn.

Bosendorfer have a dark, warm, rounded voice. Very pure. To me, the upper tenor slightly resembles a characteristic in sweetness of tone found in classical guitars and harps... well, that's my interpretation! The bass is very pure, few partials and mostly fundamental. I find Bosendorfer the most unique sounding piano - like it or not, it is unique. The inner rim is made of blocks of soundboard-grade spruce with an outer rim made from spruce ply. The keybed is built within the rim rather than mounted underneath it. This allows the soundboard to resonate freely and for the whole instrument to resonate as one. The removable capo-dastro bar is heavier and more dense than that of other pianos, and this adds depth to the treble registers. The single stringing method delivers a purer tone too. The treble sings delicately and with depth, but not the brightness of other pianos.

You could say that a Bose sounds weak and thin... but then think of the above, play it again and you will appreciate how its tone is dark, warm and pure... you need to work more to draw brilliance and power - and that is something some really love about Bosendorfer.

If you expect to hear Steinway tones from a Bosendorfer, you will of course be disappointed - they are not designed to be the same and they serve, extremely well, very different tastes and applications.

Current Yamahas (important - even pre-2007 models were inferior to current) have a vibrant bass rich in partials (overtones) and have a similar projection and power to Steinway. Their new XA grands that run in addition to the standard C series C3 and C6 models, the C3XA and C6XA, use Bavarian spruce soundboard, Roslau piano wire and incorporate redesigned ribs, rims and soundboard profile influenced by their new CFX concert grand. The tone is quite unique and somewhat distant from the trademark Yamaha sound. I would say an XA is somewhere between a Steinway and Bosendorfer in that it is a C series Yamaha grand with a more delicate voice. The new CF hancbuilt grands CF4 and CF6 even moreso. Both projective, clear & precise yet with a rounded character and more focused fundamentals. Warmer than a Steinway - more powerful than a Bosendorfer.

[amelialw]

these kind of things to me are highly dependent on the piano tuner and person in charge of maintaining the piano.... especially for such a pricey one!!

Had my first taste of a Bosie grand today in singapore at plaza sing. Tried both the Baby Grand and the Salon Grand. The baby grand was okay, pretty good piano but the salon grand blew me away; the sound and touch were both exquisite.

I do agree with comments below that the Bosie unlike the steinway has this warm, rounded tone...in this case i didn't find any issues with any parts of the upper or lower voices probably cause the person in charge did a fantastic job of it. I instantly fell in love with the sound of it. After i stopped playing the guy commented that my touch was good& playing sounded great on it and asked me what i thought of the pianos haha then i commented that i had a Boston and he gave me that ahhhh... (that's why you'll like this piano)