Rebuilding Advice

[ionian_tinnear]

I recently stumbled into a good deal, I think, on a 1924 Steinway Model 'M'.  Nothing really wrong with the instrument other than 87 years of wear.

I want to have the action rebuilt, but the cost is too much for me if I had to have a complete rebuild done.

So, my question:  Can I have the hammers, shanks and flanges replaced as 'step one', or do I really need to have everything done in one shot?  My reasoning is that although the action needs everything, the voicing is most important to me now.  The hammers have been reshaped as much as they can ever be, leaving my tech with next to nothing to work with for voicing.  That playing soft is inconsistent, and the touch is funny at times I can deal with, after all, we players never know what the piano will be like when we get to the gig, and we adjust..

So, make it sound right.  All notes voiced and consistent in tone and volume, then later have the rest done so the touch is good too.

Good Plan or not?

[silverwoodpianos]

 It is not just the piano action that requires restorative work. The keyboard also requires work; most likely new key bushings, under felt on the balance and front rail, also the back checks.  Because the piano action/keyboard works as one unit, best to pull out your wallet and complete the task.
 
If you had a V8 engine in your automobile and it required a tune up would you put only 4 spark plugs in or 8?

[ionian_tinnear]

thanks for your post silverwoodpianos.

It does need all you say, however my wallet isn't big enough to do it all at once.  I can afford the parts for the hammers, shanks and flanges.

So I'm suggesting replacing the tires, wheels and axles now, then later the engine, tranny and driveshaft, to follow your analogy.

What I'm really asking is doing the hammes, shanks and flanges first is a bad thing to do, or do I really have to do the whole action at once?  I.e., does it cause more problems?

[john90]

Perhaps this is not the piano for you.

There are 87 year old pianos that haven't been played much at all, that need regulating, cleaning, tuning, re-polishing, perhaps some new strings. Probably the same price as this one. Your tech might be able to do a lot more with one of those. 

[keys60]

I've seen it done. Original action parts with new hammers and shanks. The piano has to be regulated for sure to accept these new unworn hammers. You can't just throw them on there and expect the piano to play properly. What in your opinion constitutes a good deal. (in other words, how much?) If the piano plays decent and your tech said its a good deal, plus the pianos is only a few grand, I'd secure the investment and do as much as I could. There are so many pianos out there that claim to be rebuilt and still have the original wippens. How the hell do you spell wippens anyway?  You can get a totally rebuilt M for roughly 26K and up to mid 30's depending on the region.

[pianolive]

I would not buy new original parts for an old Steinway that small.
The hammerfelt was quite different from the felt used today and the shanks probably better and well tuned for the instrument.
You can buy all the action parts (non original) from Renner or Abel in Germany and they are just as good as the original.
You can also send the hammers to Abel and let them put on new felt. Then you just have to change the rolls and axells.
About the keys it is not that expensive to have a workshop change the bushings. Then let them do the final regulation and voicing.

If this is too expensive for you, start collecting the parts, and when you get it all, let a tech do the job.

[silverwoodpianos]

It is fine to install new shanks, hammers, flanges, etc to the top end.  If the hammer set has been emptied that is the only solution. One would expect that an 87 year old instrument would not have the original set of hammers hopefully…….

The problem is this;

The action rack or stack is set on top of the keyboard which is set on top of the key frame which is set on the key bed.

How is that base? The key frame needs to be removed and fitted to the key bed at all contacting rails without any audible knocking. Next the key felt in an 87 year old instrument requires replacement as most of the felt will be compacted, perhaps damp at some point previous; perhaps moth infected etc, etc……

Next up would be the key bushings. Again in an 87 year old instrument these would have to be replaced and sized so that the key tracks properly in its travel up and down….

Next up would be the back checks attached to the back of the key lever. In an 87 year old instrument these would require replacement.

Next up is the whippen heel cloth. This item will also require replacement as it will be found heavily indented with wear and age.

Now you have a solid base on which to place your action rack with the new components.

Sure you can do all of the top end work, as you have asked in the original posting.

BUT,

Without a solid base on which to operate those parts don’t expect much difference in the touch and play; oh sure you will have a slightly cleaner sound due to the new felt contacting the wire, not many other changes will be evident.

Whippen? Wippen….sp? who knows…Curtis you can be our whippen boy….Geez I’m so funny…..

Sunny and hot here……. I’m gone……

 

[ionian_tinnear]

I paid $8300 for the piano.  It has not been rebuilt.  My tech has examined it thoroughly.  The sound board is still fine, the pin block is fine, the plate is fine, the action is not so fine.  Still most of the original hammers (4 have been replaced before i acquired the piano, and 1 since because my dog ate it...)

I understand that i will, over time, need to have the action rebuild as you all have described, and that doing the hammers/shanks/flanges will 'only' make the thing sound nice.

That's important to me, since I have to play it!  At this point, my tech has done what he can to clean, regulate and voice the instrument.  It is now playble, just not fully satisfactory and it needs everything Dan has outlined (thanks!).

I've asked this question so I know more when I discuss the future work with my tech.

[keys60]

Thanks for the in depth answer, Dan.
8300.00 for a piano in decent shape is pretty average around these parts. I've seen better deals and yet, have seen asking prices of higher from pipe dreamers. It does sound like your piano is a good restoration candidate, at least from where I sit.
 I'd have it regulated as best as possible, key leveling, spring adjustments, hammer blow and let off, bolster the knuckles with wood just to reshape them, change a few flange bushings and pins to get those hard cases working and then just enjoy it until you can afford to get the action redone. If you think the tone is ok, put off the strings until you can afford it.
 Even a thorough regulation isn't cheap, but it may buy you some time and allow you to get some use out of it.
My daughters piano teacher has a 100 year old O that she seems to love but I hate. The parts are old and getting quite rickety, but I just keep tuning it and tightening and unsticking for her and she's happy. What can I say. The woman is such a highly qualified teacher and performer but seems to care less about the action in her piano. To each their own.
 I'm not qualified myself in performing a rebuild but my mentor/instructor is and I could hook her up with him. I'm still learning.

[ionian_tinnear]

Posting here again to thank Dan and everyone for their excellent advice.  I did end up have the action completely rebuilt include the dampers, damper rails, etc.  The extra cost and time was worth it, and frankly makes more sense economically.  Doing the restoration is stages as I suggested would have required some task, such as regulations, to be performed more than once, and paid for more than once.

We ended up using all steinway parts, the cost to do so not being enough more that other parts sources.  With all that done, the instrument feels and sounds better than I expected it would.  My tech is also very impressed at how 'only an M' sustains and resonates.  Much more that we would have thought a 5'7" piano would.  Perhaps a testament to the materials and care used in 1924.

Anyway, again, thanks for encouraging me to just 'go for it' and spend the extra to do it right.  I'm grateful for the advice and expertise.

Regard, Ion