IYO, who has written the greatest piano sonatas?

[jbmajor]

I really like some of Beethoven's, but haven't heard much of anyone else's.  

I'm going by sheer range of dynamics, interesting melodies, counter melodies, and not necessarily the most difficult.  
Mostly, what sonatas stand out to you as being great works?

[Daevren]

To me, Scriabin. Most of his sonatas are absolutely stunning. No.5 7 8 9 and 10 are great. The first movement of 3 and the last of 2 are also nice.

But its also a matter of taste. Sure Beethoven, Haydn and Scarlatti all have great piano sonatas. But I prefer something more romantic and harmonic advanced.

[Nightscape]

I will second the Scriabin sonatas.  I really like them all, because each one has something different to offer the listener - each is a portrait of some mood, or concept.  The first is very dark and dreary, and the second is a bit dreamier.  The third has a fresh, energetic feel, and the fourth has a mysterious, exotic feel.  The fifth is exciting and joyous.  The sixth is wicked and spiteful.  The seventh is very mystical and brilliant.  The eight is downright depressing - full of melancholy and anxiety.  The ninth is unafraid - it is an up front statement of the darker human emotions.  And finally the tenth is to me the most unusual, it has a certain lightness about it yet still something feels strange...

And if you include Vers la flamme as a sort of "11th sonata"(may have been a sketch of one), you get a piece that provides a very vivid picture to the listener.

All in all a great set.

[liszmaninopin]

Well, there are so many great sonatas out there, it's hard to pick just one.  However, to my mind, the greatest overall Sonata composers in the standard repertoire were Beethoven, Scriabin, and Prokofiev.

[jbmajor]

Thanks everyone; I'll check these out.

[jcromp78]

I would also recommend the Rachmaninoff B flat op 36.
Difficult piece but nevertheless but full of interesting ideas, melodie and harmonies.

For truly romantic sonatas don't pass over the Schumann Sonatas. These are amazing pieces especially the F# minor one.

[rohansahai]

Hey, you missed out a great composer there, Rohan Sahai!!! My 544th sonata (op. 3090 no. 33) is just awesome!!! Okay, just kidding!
For me, its Beethoven and Schubert. Scriabin is good too but i hate Prokofiev!

[blindmouth]

three strikes for scriabin and he's out.

his etudes are good but his sonatas never cease to amaze me. for second place it would have to be a four way tie between scarlatti, liszt (just that one sonata), chopin, and beethoven.

does anyone know if there is a nickname for the fourth sonata?

[bachmaninov]

Ehhh.. Im not a HUGE fan of Beethoven. But i admit that his sonatas cannot be beat... Here are my favorites

1. Waldstein
2. Pathetique
3. Hammerklavier
4. Appasionata
5. Moonlight

Those are probably his best ones too heh.

[liszmaninopin]

Don't forget op. 7, the Tempest, op. 101, op. 109, op. 110, and, greatest of all IMO, op. 111.

[janice]

Beethoven Sonatas are the best!!!  Haydn sonatas are also awesome!!!

[klavierkonzerte]

check out mendelssohn G minor sonata (amazing) and grieg sonata.

[piglet]

Scriabin. Absolutely.

[alextryan]

Of course, how many noteworthy composers wrote in the sonata form?  Brahms gave it up before he got really good.  Debussy didn't write any I know of.  Chopin only wrote two or three.  Not Gershwin, not Granados, not Grieg.  Not Mendelssohn, not Albeniz. 

(Please correct me if I'm wrong -- I'll go listen to them.)

Schubert wrote many sonatas, some of them spectacular.  Richter really seemed to like them. 

Anyway, point is that there were only a few composers who really did the sonata thing -- basically Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert... Scarlatti... and who else?  I personally love the symphonic feel of a sonata, with great contrasting movements that mysteriously make up a whole.  But I would caution against putting too much enthusiasm on a composer just because he wrote great sonatas.

I say this as I launch into Beethoven's 109.  What a terrific piece of music!

[hodi]

mendelssohn wrote only 3 sonatas but they are really great
he wrote the g minor sonata when he was 12!!

[presto agitato]

Schubert and Beethoven are the masters of sonatas.

[chozart]

Schubert and Beethoven are the masters of sonatas.

heh yeah

Haydn's sonatas are good too. Mozart has a select few that are very good, but sonatas were not his strong suit, in my opinion.

I generally agree about the Schubert & Beethoven comment, though

[Ecthelion]

The Beethoven Sonatas are the best ever written, but I also like Mozart, Scarlatti, Schubert or Brahms Sonatas.

[Piazzo22]

It´s all about genres but I think the greatest sonatas are Prokofiev´s.

[Goldberg]

Scriabin. Absolutely.

[DarkWind]

I would say Prokofiev, and Ravel. Ravel, you ask? He didn't write any sonatas! Well, you are somewhat right there. However, he did compose a piece that is basically in a perfect form of a sonata, that piece being none other than the notorious Gaspard de la Nuit! Think about it. Ondine, fast, but not too much. Le Gibet, slow and lyrical. Scarbo, fast, scherzo-like, crazy!

[Regulus Medtner]

Medtner's sonatas are absolute masterpieces as well.

[julie391]

Medtner's sonatas are absolute masterpieces as well.

thats what i was gonna say!

mednter's sonatas - in my opinion, taken as a whole - are the richest set of romantic sonatas in the whole literature.

[Tibor]

I think that Beethoven's sonatas are the best.

[julie391]

agreed, but when i used the term 'romantic' i meant post-beethoven

[f0bul0us]

Liszt Eb, you know it, you love it. Good night.

[Daniel_piano]

Liszt Eb, you know it, you love it. Good night.

Scarlatti:

Sonatas:

366, 103, 387, 383, 349, 413, 210, 104, 487, 118, 352, 391

You can find anything on these Sonatas
Despite being baroque, there a bit of Romanticism, Impressionisn e Neorelism as well in these masterpieces

Haydn Sonatas are very underrated, many of them are beautiful and full of musical ideas

Hummel Sonatas are wonderful as well


Daniel

[rachlisztchopin]

Of course, how many noteworthy composers wrote in the sonata form?  Brahms gave it up before he got really good.  Debussy didn't write any I know of.  Chopin only wrote two or three.  Not Gershwin, not Granados, not Grieg.  Not Mendelssohn, not Albeniz. 

(Please correct me if I'm wrong -- I'll go listen to them.)

Schubert wrote many sonatas, some of them spectacular.  Richter really seemed to like them. 

Anyway, point is that there were only a few composers who really did the sonata thing -- basically Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert... Scarlatti... and who else?  I personally love the symphonic feel of a sonata, with great contrasting movements that mysteriously make up a whole.  But I would caution against putting too much enthusiasm on a composer just because he wrote great sonatas.

I say this as I launch into Beethoven's 109.  What a terrific piece of music!

liszt sonatas are in a very complex sonata form (b minor and dante sonata as far as i know)...as im sure other romantic sonatas were in a very complex sonata form thats almost impossible to interpret

[rachlisztchopin]

I would say Prokofiev, and Ravel. Ravel, you ask? He didn't write any sonatas! Well, you are somewhat right there. However, he did compose a piece that is basically in a perfect form of a sonata, that piece being none other than the notorious Gaspard de la Nuit! Think about it. Ondine, fast, but not too much. Le Gibet, slow and lyrical. Scarbo, fast, scherzo-like, crazy!

if gaspard de la nuit is considered a sonata ...then so are most symphonies, piano concertos, quartets, etc. for they are usually written in sonata form

[chelsey]

First and Foremost, Beethoven was the greatest composer of the genre. Scriabin and Prokofiev wrote some really cool sonatas. My favourite being Scriabin's Sonata #5. I love listening to Hamelin's Medtner Also I recently heard Bartok's Sonata (written in 1926, I think) performed, I quite enjoyed it.

Also if you enjoy grand sonatas, check out Hamelin's (I think it was his) performances of the Ives Concord Sonata or Wright's Sonatas... Comparatively unheard, they are a lot of FUN to listen to!

Chelsey

[rachlisztchopin]

as far as composer who is greatest sonata writer? well i would have put it down as a fact that beethoven is the greatest sonata writer ever to live. Why does this crazy 15 year old teenager think he can declare beethoven as the best sonata writer to ever live? well i have one reason for this...to be a true sonata writer one must write in "sonata form".  Beethoven didnt only write in sonata form (as did mozart haydn and others) but he used unimaginable creativity in his writings. Especially his later sonatas. The thing about beethoven is he also developed over time while writing his sonatas (for most beethoven biographies are separated into three periods of beethovens life) His first sonatas are basically very similar to mozarts and haydns later sonatas yet still add that tid bit of beethoven genius to them. His later sonatas revolutionized the era and basically started the romantic era due to how rebelious they were. Well I dont know if i have really explained myself. Forgive me if you believe I am wrong. I have only been listening to classical music and playing piano for two years. But I do seriously believe that the majority of music historians would declare Beethoven as the greatest sonata writer ever. (I am not saying that I don't like other composers sonatas for liszts sonatas are truely my fav.)

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I personally think that no composer could ever come close to what Beethoven has achieved with his sonatas. Really, it is impossible.

[Daniel_piano]

Anyway, point is that there were only a few composers who really did the sonata thing -- basically Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert... Scarlatti... and who else?

Well, they're more than the one you mentioned:
Mendelsohnn, Liszt, Chopin, Clementi, Soler, Kabalevsky, Saint-Saens, Hummel,  Grieg, Cimarosa, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Griffes, Scrijabin, Weber, Field, Cramer, Dussek, MacDowell,  Kuhlau, Ives, Stravinskij, Copland, Chaminade, Hindemith

Daniel

[julie391]

i think scarlatti for baroque, beethoven for classical, and since beethoven - medtner

i say this partially because he composed a greater quantity than prokofiev, scriabin, rach etc.

[Sketchee]

I would say Prokofiev, and Ravel. Ravel, you ask? He didn't write any sonatas! Well, you are somewhat right there. However, he did compose a piece that is basically in a perfect form of a sonata, that piece being none other than the notorious Gaspard de la Nuit! Think about it. Ondine, fast, but not too much. Le Gibet, slow and lyrical. Scarbo, fast, scherzo-like, crazy!

if gaspard de la nuit is considered a sonata ...then so are most symphonies, piano concertos, quartets, etc. for they are usually written in sonata form

True.  Ravel's Sonatine can count, but it' not going to hold up to the other sonatas mentioned here.

I'll be the 143rd person to say Beethoven. Liszt's Bminor is an amazing evolution of the Sonata.  The other composers mentioned have music that shouldn't be missed as well.   The looseness and versatility of form is somethin we saw in Beethoven's "Sonate quasi una fantasia" pieces, too.  He worked well in strict and loose form, and each Sonata has it's own character while still maintaining the distinct voice of the composer.

[rachlisztchopin]

I personally think that no composer could ever come close to what Beethoven has achieved with his sonatas. Really, it is impossible.

true you would have to write beethovens 32 sonatas all over again...backwards too
by the way my oxford music dictionary says he wrote 36 sonatas (4 juvinile ones) has any1 heard them?

[rachlisztchopin]

Anyway, point is that there were only a few composers who really did the sonata thing -- basically Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert... Scarlatti... and who else?

Well, they're more than the one you mentioned:
Mendelsohnn, Liszt, Chopin, Clementi, Soler, Kabalevsky, Saint-Saens, Hummel,  Grieg, Cimarosa, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Griffes, Scrijabin, Weber, Field, Cramer, Dussek, MacDowell,  Kuhlau, Ives, Stravinskij, Copland, Chaminade, Hindemith

Daniel

he means composers who really wrote in sonata form
by the way i believe ravels sonatine does match up to the other sonatas already mentioned. It's is probably the biggest sonatine ever written (biggest small sonata  ) and it is written in sonata form 

[Daniel_piano]

Anyway, point is that there were only a few composers who really did the sonata thing -- basically Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert... Scarlatti... and who else?

Well, they're more than the one you mentioned:
Mendelsohnn, Liszt, Chopin, Clementi, Soler, Kabalevsky, Saint-Saens, Hummel,  Grieg, Cimarosa, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Griffes, Scrijabin, Weber, Field, Cramer, Dussek, MacDowell,  Kuhlau, Ives, Stravinskij, Copland, Chaminade, Hindemith

Daniel

he means composers who really wrote in sonata form

Yes, all the composers I've mentioned wrote in sonata form with three movements

Daniel

[rachlisztchopin]

oh ok thanx for that....i learned something new
i had no clue they wrote in sonata form

[zemos]

the greatest piano sonatas ever written were definitely beethoven's and schubert's. i can't compare, but they're in the first place imo...

[Daniel_piano]

the greatest piano sonatas ever written were definitely beethoven's and schubert's. i can't compare, but they're in the first place imo...

I think we just can't say "who wrote the best piano sonatas" because it's not that fair comparing sonatas from different period, so that eventually by judging the sonatas from the period one loves we're not judging them but their style hence the period instead of the sonata itself

So imo a better way to rephrase this question would be:
1) Who has written the best piano sonatas in the baroque period?
2) Who has written the best piano sonatas in the classical period?
3) Who has written the best piano sonatas in the romantic period?
4) Who has written the best piano sonatas in the post-romantic period?
5) Who has written the best piano sonatas in the modern period?

Now that would result in a better "sonata opinion" instead of a "period opinion"

Daniel

[julie391]

the baroque period undoubtedly goes to scarlatti, beethoven i think of as classical - so he takes that.

medtner is late/post romantic, the other eras i will have to think about more

[rachlisztchopin]

i feel bad    iv never heard a medtner sonata in my life

[julie391]

buy the hamelin recordings - you will treasure them

but beware - they take time to sink in

[rachlisztchopin]

ok thanx

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I have Arrau's recording. The quality is a bit old, but otherwise, I love the CD.


Ludwig Van Rachabji

[julie391]

I have Arrau's recording. The quality is a bit old, but otherwise, I love the CD.


Ludwig Van Rachabji

arrau's recording of what?

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Of the Beethoven sonatas.

[julie391]

i was going to say, id love to hear his, or any other 'golden age' pianist's medtner

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Haha, yes, I was still on another topic. That would be interesting to say the least, however.

Ludwig Van Rachabji