Is classical piano declining in popularity?

[rph108]

Do you think classical piano is on the decline in America or even the world?

[liszmaninopin]

It's hard to say.  Alot of people play the piano, and there are probably thousands upon thousands of outstanding pianists out there, so I doubt that it's declining too severely.

However, we have already declined below the musical radar of popular culture for some reason.  So with regards to popularity among the general public, I don't see how we could sink much lower.  Actually, though, there are some people out there who just enjoy listening to classical, so classical music isn't going anywhere.

[donjuan]

Well, the fans of classical music will reproduce and introduce their children to classical music.  The cycle will continue forever.  

The only reason why we feel classical music is going out is because of the ignorance of people who were raised with rap or hip hop, and the popularity of this new attitude in the media.  Highschools are full of stupid kids who want to set themselves apart from adults, so they act rebelliously and make sure they are always up on the latest trends.  They think just because Beethoven lived a long time ago, his music should not be listened to just because it has been around for more than 6 months.

man, I hate teenagers
donjuan

[in_love_with_liszt]

I would say that it is definitely on the decline, and this is why: nowadays people don't want to listen to complex music (Romantic and 20th cent. are by far the most complex music) they want music based on three chords (I swear, it's sickening how all pop music uses only the I, vi and V chords) that they don't have to think about or go through any mental sweat to interperet. As a result when they listen to classical music they don't understand it because their brain isn't accustomed to having to work a little to be able to grasp a piece of music, and all they hear is noise, and label it as rubbish in their ignorance. One other factor that is constantly causing the shrinking classical audience is the fast paced society of today. Many classical works range in the 7-13 minute range, and larger works like concertos range from 20-60 minutes whereas modern forms of music generally produce songs that are 2-5 minutes in length. People don't have the patience anymore to listen to Alkan's Concerto for Solo Piano, and being used to their quaint simple little 2 minute pop songs get bored durring long classical pieces and once again chuck it to the wind in their ignorance.

Solo piano itself is dying is because of the stupid need people have for a vocalist in their music nowadays. I wish people would realize that these pop singers really are not good musicians at all, often screeming the lyrics or muffling them in weird ways that you can barely understand what the heck is being said (I swear, most pop music I can't understand what they're saying for most of the song). Not that there aren't alot of classical pianists out there, but if you look at the last 70 years and compare the number of famous pop musicians to famous classical musicians (when I mean famous I mean a household name) and there are next to zero on the classical side, and a plethora of them on pop.

[donjuan]

Classical will never go out of style.  Bach has been remembered for centuries, but the Backstreet Boys are forgotton over a couple years.

Stupid techno remixes of classical melodies will be forgotton as well. (Man, dont you just hate those?! )  I think it is possible we have enough smart people to realize interest in classical music is constantly renewed.

donjuan

[Tash]

yeah i agree with donjuan, classical music has been here for a few hundred years now and people still love it so if it died out now that would be stupid. and my children (well hopefully anyway or otherwise i'll be hell disappointed) are gonna love classical music and then they'll pass it onto their grandchildren and so on.
what i find interesting is what type of music our generation will listen to when we're like 80, since most listen to pop etc.- will they still listen to that in 50 years time? cos the older generations today generally lived with classical and jazz, so will our generation move to that or not?hmmm i'll have to wait a few decades to find out...

long live classical music!!

[Balakirev]

Today music will be tommorow classical musical music.

[donjuan]

Today music will be tommorow classical musical music.

oh NO!!!
I sincerely hope not!

Trends will come and go, but there will always be people, (even in 200 years from today) who love classical music.

[bizgirl]

It's hard to say whether or not interest in classical music is declining.  Part of me says yes, because the general population (at least of the US, this may be different in other countries) listens to pop stuff or, even worse, country! (Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone!  Country music is just too twangy for me.)  Another part of me, however, says interest is not declining because now there are all those parents getting in infant and prenatal music classes.
Perhaps it's not a question of interest declining, but of interest changing.  Now, it seems, people just listen to it (or have their kids listen to it) for intellectual gains instead of enjoyment.

I've been wondering about what today's music will become.  We have the baroque period, classical, etc., through contemporary.  Will all the music ever written for the rest of time be considered contemporary?  My brother says we have have the contemporary period and then the rock and roll period.

[donjuan]

...........or, even worse, country! (Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone!  Country music is just too twangy for me.)

ug I hate country music.  Not quite as much as Rap, but still- I am really sick of that lead singer of the Dixie Chicks--> Such a whiny voice, I cant breathe while listening to it!! I need "Wide Open Spaces"!!!

 My brother says we have have the contemporary period and then the rock and roll period.

I hope that " " means you're kidding.  There was a great classy period of the 1940s and 1950s where we had the Big Bands.  I love that music- "The Platters" are some of my favorites from that time period.
donjuan

[Tash]

oh yes i love big bands!! please if they're not gonna turn to classical then at least jazz'd be excellent!

[bizgirl]

Yes, I'm kidding.  He was just talking, not necessarily saying anything of value.  It would be tough having to come up with a new musical period as frequently as musical styles change nowadays.  Plus the rap and country people would probably get mad if they named one after rock and roll and not after their music.
I like big band music too!  I have another brother who is in a big band band (whatever you call a band that plays big band music) and I get to accompany them this year.  I'm so excited!

[bernhard]

Do you think classical piano is on the decline in America or even the world?

As compared to what?

My subjective impression is that if you compare clasical music to itself (as opposed to comparing it with folk music, for instance), it has never been so popular.

It doesn't look like piano factories are going out of business, and there has never been so much variety available in terms of CDs. New brands are always appearing, so it is not like the market is unable to cope. Likewise the number of clasiscal pianists making a living of performance seems pretty amazing - the market seems much more ready to accomodate less than perfect pianists these days - the recording industry sees to it.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[benji]

There are six billion people in the world. A fraction of them will always love classical music. Another fraction will always love popular stuff that's MARKETED like crazy. It just seems like pop music is thrust at you while classical music sits back and waits for you to come to it, which may be a bad thing, since society today does not have the patience/time/concentration/effort to seek something out, no matter what it is. (ex. pizza delivery, drive-thru weddings, cell phones everywhere)  :-/

[rph108]

I was mainly asking about comparing classical music to itself, but any other replies are welcome. The reason I started this subject is stupid. It is because I have heard from a few random people that classical piano is declining in popularity and I have been thinking about whether it might be true or not.

[donjuan]

I have heard from a few random people that classical piano is declining in popularity and I have been thinking about whether it might be true or not.

Random people?! [sarcasm]there is a reliable source[/sarcasm]
keep in mind, people in general are very ignorant.

donjuan

[wintervind]

Random people?! [sarcasm]there is a reliable source[/sarcasm]
keep in mind, people in general are very ignorant.

donjuan

Ignorant about classical music, but maybe not in other ways.

[donjuan]

I guess you have a piont- People are educated on what they choose to be educated on. -hell, I dont know anything about skateboarding, hockey, or drug dealing for that matter...

I was merely noticing the general population's ignorant attitude towards anything out of their everyday life.
(If you go to a large highschool and are on this great forum reading this, you know what I am talking about)

donjuan

[wintervind]

I am following your point but it is important to not make judgements about someones education just because they aren't familiar with something. For example, to saying that someone is stupid for not having specialized knowledge in a certain subject (insert any subject here!) is itself an ignorant remark. What I find the most frustrating is when people who know nothing about a subject, usually an art, question its value. This to me is very dangerous to musical education in the United States especially. Lack of education breeds intolerance. Yea anyways I'll get off my soap box!

[rph108]

What I meant to say was classical random people

[wintervind]

What are classical random people?

[bernhard]

What I meant to say was classical random people

A pianoforum random statement.

[Rob47]

Look at Yundi Li, he's in a Nike commercial!!

[mozartgonebad]

i dont think its in a decline, even the ppl who know nothing about classical in my school, still appreciate it...as long as there are good classical pianists out there...i dont think it will die

[Spatula]

If Eminem plays the piano, we'd be saved!

[ChopinLoverInPA]

There is room for everything -- I personally dislike hip-hop, but if someone is moved or otherwise affected by it, then it's done it's job...

I love rock and roll, Springsteen might only write in three chords but the lyrics to his songs speak volumes, not to mention the intensity of his performance.

Also, virtuosity can come in many forms -- Steve Vai (I doubt many of you know who he is) can do things with a guitar that defy explanation....

With that being said, Classical music is a wonderous, beautiful art form -- it is music written and played at the highest level.  It might not be at the forefront of "popular" music like it was 300 years ago, but it will always have it's followers and performers.  Hey, Shakespeare is still performed all over the world, even though most people would prefer to see "Predator vs. Alien" (good God)

[donjuan]

Also, virtuosity can come in many forms -- Steve Vai (I doubt many of you know who he is) can do things with a guitar that defy explanation....

I know who he is! I saw him on stage once.  he was playing a THREE necked electrical guitar and was doing a progressively more complicated piece.  It was SOO exciting!
donjuan

[cziffra]

Bernard said

the market seems much more ready to accomodate less than perfect pianists these days - the recording industry sees to it.

i find it interesting you say this, bernard, because to me it sometimes seems that if you want to get anywhere as a pianist you have to be THE world's best (and even then, people won't like the gestures you make)

[Daevren]

I think classical music should get rid of its elitist old rich people image.

That will open up the music alot more.

Same thing with all other styles of music, get rid of image. And forget about taste, taste doesn't exist. The word 'taste' is just an excuse used to limit yourself to specific genres. Not really bad for non-musicians, but an awfull thing to do for muscians.

[bachmaninov]

Classical is IMORTAL!

-Take techno for example... this is all it is...
https://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail45.html

(funny)

[donjuan]

-Take techno for example... this is all it is...
https://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail45.html

(funny)

man, I wish I could email you a picture of my face when I watched that- I cant stop laughing because it is so TRUE!!
The funniest part is at the end where you are given the option to download the tune. HAHAHAHahaha!!!! I like the "old sci-fi movie quote" thing.
donjuan

[bernhard]

Bernard said

i find it interesting you say this, bernard, because to me it sometimes seems that if you want to get anywhere as a pianist you have to be THE world's best (and even then, people won't like the gestures you make)

My conclusion is based on observing:

1.      How many new labels dedicated to specialised niches in classical music have appeared on the past 15 years (Hyperion, Harmonia mundi, Naxos, Marco Polo, etc.)
2.      How many new pianists (a couple of hundred perhaps) of whom I have never heard – totally obscure pianists – have been employed by these new recording labels to record stuff (e.g. the complete piano works of Sibelius, recorded for Naxos by pianists like Risto Lauriala and Havard Gimse).

So while a handful of “celebrities” (Perahia, Schiff, Pogorelich, Argerich and others) seem to be mostly doing the mainstream repertory, filling concert halls and producing some pretty expensive recordings, there is a siseable amount of obscure pianists doing obscure repertory for labels that produce recordings at a fraction of the price of the stars. I don’t think these pianists or this more obscure repertory would have a chance if it was not for recording companies being willing to explore a market that is definitely there but it was largely ignored until some 15 years ago.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

Here is an interesting article on this subject:

https://www.artsjournal.com/artswatch/aw-deathofclassical.htm

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[cziffra]

Thankyou for notifying me of that article bernard!  i have been waiting for that sort of positive outlook to finally be said, because all this *** bullshit about the classical music industry dying is really starting to piss me off.  we do NOT need to dumb our music down to make money, we merely need to think of new creative ways to do it, just like the london symphony orchestra's excellent example.  

maybe if classical musicians stopped sitting around talking about how hard it is to make money and how the industry is dying and picked up a *** pen and wrote some kik ass music the industry would be fine!

[bernhard]

Thankyou for notifying me of that article bernard!  i have been waiting for that sort of positive outlook to finally be said, because all this *** bullshit about the classical music industry dying is really starting to piss me off.  we do NOT need to dumb our music down to make money, we merely need to think of new creative ways to do it, just like the london symphony orchestra's excellent example.  

maybe if classical musicians stopped sitting around talking about how hard it is to make money and how the industry is dying and picked up a *** pen and wrote some kik ass music the industry would be fine!

Charles Rosen changed my mind. I used to think about the public and all that. But actually the public is completely unimportant. Who really matters is the performer. Who buys pianos? The public? No, the players. Who buys scores? The public? No, the players. Who plays the repertory? The public? Not, the players.

Alkan did not become famous suddenly because there was a public demand for it. He became famous because a few pianists decided to play his music (Hamelin, et al).

There are at this moment in time literally hundreds of millions (maybe even more) of pianists (mostly amateurs) out there. Go to any music shop and witness the deluge of methods and new pedagogical compositions being churned out. According to one amongst many sources there is at this moment 20 000 composers in the US alone. Who is sustaining this unprecedent (and rarely talked about) bloom? You bet it is the people playing the piano. Most of them are quietly playing for themselves at home and deriving great pleasure from it.

As long as there is someone willing to play a piece, that piece will remain in the repertory. The moment pianists decide never to play again some piece (oh, please, make it Fur Elise! ) no amount of public clamour will bring it back to the repertory. In fact the public will not even know it exists.

Hence my final conclusion:

Pianists rule!

Pianists of the world! Unite! (“The Pianist Manifesto” )

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[rph108]

Hail Bernhard!  

[ignaceii]

10 years later, I'd say that pianists should start thinking of new repertoire. Everything they play, has been played by the greatest pianists of the 20th century.
In an interview with Trifonov, he was asked about his repertoire, and what he intends to learn.
Again, all the things we heard 100s of times before.

Is there not 1 pianist, who doesn't need the money anymore, has the prestige so he can't be refused by concermanagers without starting a rage. Kissin, why not.

Let him start learning Alkan, Ries, (my 3000 pages of piano music has enough composers needing to be discovered). Let him play, and people will tell.... Never heard off, beautiful,...
Let Hamelin join and create a sort of movement to bring new life in the repertoire.
This also counts for chamber and symphony music.
If i think of a pianist playing the 4th Beethoven concerto, or Argerich with her Schumann concerto, both Schumann, and Beethoven certainly would turn in their graves, NOT AGAIN.

If it survives, only by the grace of a charming, face and wardrobe behind the piano, it's almost dead.
Finally, no more marketing pianists from China, but only the records, and what we play in our houses like 250 years ago.

[mjames]

Talk about a necro-bump.

[ignaceii]

If they don't give masters like Bozhanov, yundi Li, but many other winners in Leeds, Brussels, or 2nd 3rd places a chance, then we are definitely in problem. Join my thread still mad on top.
Made in China is a hype and won't last musically. They are marketing driven.
Volodos, a great pianist, but likes nature too much, like me, and not fit for the msrket.
Names. I am from the flanders in Belgium.
My compatriot got 6th, last last laureate price at Queen Elisabeth 6 or 7 years ago, with the prokofiev 3rd in the final.
His name. Liebrecht van Beckevoort. Not sexy enough, as the man,  but brilliant player. Cruel market. So take some chinese, lang only did some youth competitions, Bozhanov did every major existing competition..
A german named Klang Klang was once thrown in "forget about" corner again because of the name.
They dropped the K and now it's ok.
Stupids everywhere.

Please join still mad and post video links of pianists you want to be known.
A movement must come out of it to criticize this way of treating our great pianists.

[cuberdrift]

How popular was Bach in his time?  

The sad thing is, though long-lasting, classical is not, and never really was, popular...I think...