Big youtube "Pianist" bashes the chopin etudes?

[ranjit]

The ChopEts (for the most part) aren't great. Nor, to my understanding, is BachScholar.

Which Chopin etudes do you like/ think are great?

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Which Chopin etudes do you like/ think are great?

The only ones that I still listen to frequently are 10/1, 10/8, 10/9, 25/1, 25/9, and 25/12.

[thorn]

I'm not a great lover of Chopin. I'm not a hater either.

But this guy's points could be said of many works. If Beethoven only wrote Pathetique he'd be a "one hit wonder" not one of the great composers. Most pianists are afraid of presenting popular works in high stakes settings (auditions/exams) because everyone has a fixed opinion of right and wrong ways to play them. Many pianists play difficult works too fast, even some golden age pianists. And the Chopin Etudes aren't the only examples of pieces learners chase after when they don't have the technique to play them because they think this is what makes them a "pianist" vs a "learner".

[dizzyfingers]

"I get many requests to play and teach Chopin's Etudes. I hate to disappoint you, but I dislike the Chopin Etudes. In my opinion they are overplayed and overrated and YouTube is already oversaturated with far too many performances of them. In my opinion the Etudes are Chopin's weakest works as a whole, which are simply made weaker by most pianists' obsession with speed. They have become pretty much speed contests more than anything, which I will have no part in. Czerny's op. 740 etudes are much better works of music in my opinion.

Some have tried to convince me that I am "wrong" and that the Chopin Etudes are great, but fail to understand what personal taste really means. For example, take a food you don't like and imagine all your friends constantly trying to convince you that this food is great and you are wrong for not liking it. Would this annoy you? Now put yourself in my shoes and imagine how annoying it would be if everyone said you really "should" like the Chopin Etudes. In other words, personal taste is personal taste. "

This is the quote of BachScholar - - the very first post - it's quite a reasonable statement.  He simply doesn't care for the Chopin etudes very much.  To each his own. 
Why everyone has been so critical of this statement demonstrates how much these etudes have been put on a pedestal.  This is the very question the original poster raises - - Is an opinion like this  even valid?
The etudes are revered by many an aspiring pianist, myself included when I was 16.  To some they are "untouchable", in the sense of beyond criticism.  But let's acknowledge and respect that some (and not do a background check on them) do not feel that way.

[thorn]

Why everyone has been so critical of this statement demonstrates how much these etudes have been put on a pedestal.  This is the very question the original poster raises - - Is an opinion like this  even valid?
The etudes are revered by many an aspiring pianist, myself included when I was 16.  To some they are "untouchable", in the sense of beyond criticism.  But let's acknowledge and respect that some (and not do a background check on them) do not feel that way.

I repeat my previous point: is this specific to the Chopin etudes? Wouldn't someone saying the same about Bach WTC, Beethoven Sonatas etc get the same response? I don't believe they're the exceptional case he makes them out to be here.

[dizzyfingers]

I repeat my previous point: is this specific to the Chopin etudes? Wouldn't someone saying the same about Bach WTC, Beethoven Sonatas etc get the same response? I don't believe they're the exceptional case he makes them out to be here.

Yes, the chopin etudes are quite the icon, more so than what you've mentioned and anything I can think of.

[eee-_-]

"I get many requests to play and teach Chopin's Etudes. I hate to disappoint you, but I dislike the Chopin Etudes. In my opinion they are overplayed and overrated and YouTube is already oversaturated with far too many performances of them. In my opinion the Etudes are Chopin's weakest works as a whole, which are simply made weaker by most pianists' obsession with speed. They have become pretty much speed contests more than anything, which I will have no part in. Czerny's op. 740 etudes are much better works of music in my opinion.

Some have tried to convince me that I am "wrong" and that the Chopin Etudes are great, but fail to understand what personal taste really means.

The chopin etudes are ... etudes , they are meant to make you a better pianist in terms of technique , and if studied slowly , without rushing to complete them , without aiming for speed , but for clarity and good technique ,they are one of the greatest tools a pianist can use to make a HUGE improvement to technique . They are objectively good technical studies , this is not something that you can have an opinion on, its a fact , they WILL make you a better pianist . They are overplayed , because they work , imagine someone saying "czerny is overplayed '  or " hanon is overplayed " yeah , these are basic fundamental exercises ( Chopin etudes are advanced ones ), it wouldnt be any different if i say " C major scale is overplayed " . If someone robs their students of them just because they personally dislike how the etudes sounds, or just to be different they avoid "overplayed" *etudes* , I believe that it would be fair to say that they are prioritizing their own personal taste on music over the growth of their student . This is similar to a someone I know of who dosent teach moonlight first movt , because " I am bored to death of it " , I find people like this absurd. So yes , this person is objectively wrong , while one can develop good technique without these etudes , I think the same thing can be said for any piece , its just that these etudes are simply brilliant and forces the student to use good technique because without it they will be unable to play the piece well.

[thorn]

Yes, the chopin etudes are quite the icon, more so than what you've mentioned and anything I can think of.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

The chopin etudes are ... etudes , they are meant to make you a better pianist in terms of technique , and if studied slowly , without rushing to complete them , without aiming for speed , but for clarity and good technique ,they are one of the greatest tools a pianist can use to make a HUGE improvement to technique .

Agreed. Personally I'd say their pedagogical value outweighs their musical quality, but that's getting into personal taste (a topic I find incredibly boring).

If someone robs their students of them just because they personally dislike how the etudes sounds, or just to be different they avoid "overplayed" *etudes* , I believe that it would be fair to say that they are prioritizing their own personal taste on music over the growth of their student .

Absolutely. If you're a pianist sitting alone in your practice room/private lessons then you can play/ignore whatever you like. But if you're a teacher then personal taste is irrelevant to your work. I know an English teacher who absolutely hates Shakespeare's Macbeth, but it's a set text on every high school curriculum here so if she doesn't teach it she doesn't get the work (she's a private tutor not classroom based).

[dizzyfingers]

1) The chopin etudes are ... etudes  ...
2) They are overplayed , because they work , imagine someone saying "czerny is overplayed '  or " hanon is
3) So yes , this person is objectively wrong

1) They are much more than etudes.  They are concert pieces, artistic gems that unite a new piano technique with a new musical sensibility.  For that time, they are marvels of pianistic genius.
2) They are overplayed because of (1) + they sound virtuosic and beautiful at the same time + because of the Chopin Competition + because so many top pianists record the entire set** = they are icons of pianistic achievement.
3)  Objectivity is not on the table, as BS makes clear, he is coming from a purely subjective place.

You're right that his stance on not teaching them is unprofessional.

**
Maurizio Pollini (1960/1972): Widely considered a benchmark recording for technical precision
Vladimir Ashkenazy: Known for a lyrical yet virtuosic approach
Alfred Cortot (1933/1934): A historic 78rpm-era set known for musical insight
Wilhelm Backhaus (1928): One of the earliest complete recordings
Murray Perahia: Renowned for refined balance and technical mastery
Yunchan Lim (2024): A highly acclaimed recent studio recording
György Cziffra: Known for extreme virtuosity and unique interpretation
Louis Lortie: Often praised for clarity and phrasing
Garrick Ohlsson: Noted for a robust, powerful approach
Juana Zayas: Frequently cited by critics (and specifically noted by Jed Distler) as one of the greatest recordings of the Etudes ever made, praised for its rhythmic vitality
John Browning: Noted for great technical capacity and often considered a reliable "home base" for the sets
Jan Lisiecki: A highly regarded modern set on Deutsche Grammophon
Idil Biret: Recorded the complete works of Chopin for Naxos, including a notable set of the Etudes
Boris Berezovsky: Often recommended for those seeking stunning virtuosity
Janina Fialkowska: A superb but less famous recording by a pianist mentored by Arthur Rubinstein
Adam Harasiewicz: A winner of the International Chopin Competition known for his idiomatic Polish style.