Legends about Art Tatum - true or not?

[wildman]

As I've come across some books and the Internet, I found out several legends about the jazz pianist Art Tatum, who is apparently the "God of Jazz".

First and probably the most popular, is that Art Tatum walked into a place where Fats Waller was playing. Waller stepped aside for Art to play and proclaimed, "I'm only a piano player: but tonight, God is in the house".

Secondly, is that the classical virtuoso Vladimir Horowitz heard of Art Tatum. Impressed, he began writing transcriptions for "Tea for Two", which were according to Andre Previn, "virtuostic". He played it to Tatum. Tatum then played HIS version of the piece, which amazed Horowitz. Then there are the sayings that Horowitz said "if Art Tatum took up classical music seriously, I'd quit my job the next day!" and "I'm never playing Tea for Two in public again".

Just for your information, Horowitz actually attempted to improvise on "Tea for Two" in the documentary "Horowitz: The Last Romantic". It is available in Youtube.

Thirdly, is that influential guitarist Les Paul chose to play the piano. However, as he heard Art Tatum play, he changed his career into a guitarist instead, where he excelled. Now, it seems the two actually played with each other, but if this actually happened to him, we have no solid proof.

Are these true? Are they fact or fiction?

Lastly, maybe you'll want to hear Andre Previn in an interview with Oscar Peterson ttalking about the supposed meeting of Horowitz and Tatum;

[sevencircles]

I donīt  know if he really was that good.

His recording are impressive sometimes but he tend to overuse a certain type of legatoscales.

Boring to hear the same runs over an over again, but then again he was propably drunk during a lot of the recordings.

He had perfect pitch and many times he had to record on pianos that were significantly out of tune.  According to rumours he drank lots of alcohol during the recording sessions to forget the fact that the piano was out of tune.

He was propably a better ragtime and boogie-woogie player then jazz pianist actually.

[wildman]

Well, I respect your taste, but it's nearly unanimous for the Jazz critic world to regard him as some of the greatest (if not the greatest, in fact) jazz pianists of all time.

Of course he might not be able to touch some of the later, more advanced styles such as fusion and those octave runs of Oscar Peterson, but his being an innovator was a huge success. His playing style was way ahead of his peers.

I mean take, for example, Beethoven; he's one of the greatest Western classical musicians who ever existed. But one can always say "uhh, he's boring, he doesn't have as much technique as Rachmaninoff and doesn't do those fast big chords". But you're missing the point; Rachmaninoff came nearly a century after him, when classical music was much more developed.

Art Tatum may not be as advanced as Errol Garner, Oscar Peterson, or Thelonius Monk, but he sure did shape Jazz. A lot.

Now let's get back on topic?

[oxy60]

Mature musicians generally say nice things about each other so I can easily believe what all these guys said. Most everybody mentioned is at the very top.

There is a rule out there that you never speak ill of your fellow musician, even if you would never hire them to play with you. One day you may need each other!

[wildman]

Mature musicians generally say nice things about each other so I can easily believe what all these guys said. Most everybody mentioned is at the very top.

There is a rule out there that you never speak ill of your fellow musician, even if you would never hire them to play with you. One day you may need each other!

Perhaps, but this one wasn't simply acknowledging a fellow musician's skills; if this really happened Horowitz was actually blown out by Tatum's recording. This isn't mere admiration, it's actually near to Fats Waller's "God is in the house" statement.

So could these be true? Is there any evidence? Interviews?

[getitdone1]

Art Tatum.  Too many of the same ole' runs.  Much prefer Oscar Peterson and Erroll Garner.

Tatum doesn't even come close to the abilities of a concert pianist.  His greatness is strictly relative to the stride, rag time, boogie players of his time--not to concert pianists. 

I think Horowitz was just "being nice."  Now when it comes to "playing by ear" many of the jazz players would be much better at this than the classical players.  In general they each have abilities the other lacks but the concert pianists are in a class all by themselves.

I expect there are a few concert pianists who could play jazz better than the best jazz players.  I wish I knew who they were. 

getitdone1

[thalbergmad]

I expect there are a few concert pianists who could play jazz better than the best jazz players.  I wish I knew who they were. 

They might play the notes, but perhaps without the swing.

Check Steven Mayer playing Tatum transcriptions. All the notes are there, but the end result is horrific.

Thal

[sevencircles]

Art Tatum.  Too many of the same ole' runs.  Much prefer Oscar Peterson and Erroll Garner.

Tatum doesn't even come close to the abilities of a concert pianist.  His greatness is strictly relative to the stride, rag time, boogie players of his time--not to concert pianists. 

I think Horowitz was just "being nice." 

I agree,  I donīt think that Horowitz was just being nice though. He was propably a pretty limited pianist in some respects and complex Jazz improvisations was something new to him. He was propably just really surprised that someone could play something that he would never be able play.

Tatum could play things that Horowitz couldnīt play but Horowitz could play many things that Tatum couldnīt play as well of course.

[oxy60]

There's two different worlds out there. My jazz and blues friends constantly ask me to sit in on keyboards and I, just as constantly, try explain that I really can't. My classical music means nothing to them and popular music means nothing to me.

For me to be an effective contributor to the band, those tunes upon which they will improvise should be very well known to me: chord progressions, stops, rhythms, and versions. Actually I can't dissect even one. I can barely hum along.

[sordel]

For me to be an effective contributor to the band, those tunes upon which they will improvise should be very well known to me: chord progressions, stops, rhythms, and versions. Actually I can't dissect even one. I can barely hum along.

I wonder whether you would benefit from listening to more jazz. When I first started listening to improvisation my ear was completely unprepared to follow it; if you're used to rock, or in your case classical, then the instrumentalists simply aren't doing what you're used to. There's the temptation to think that an improviser in a jazz context is just trying to extemporise what someone else could have composed, but actually an improviser doesn't seem to think like that.

Back to the subject:-

Art Tatum is special, and this was recognised both in his day and in ours. I've heard most of those stories before, but what they mostly boil down to is that Tatum was able to do things that other musicians praised enormously. That didn't cost them much: a classical performer was not competing with Tatum, and Peterson, by the time he was praising Tatum, was universally lauded as the greatest living jazz pianist. So: I think that the stories are true, but maybe not that extraordinary.

The most remarkable story remains the Fats Waller one, because I think that was pure respect. They were actual rivals, and for one pianist to say another was better is a huge compliment, even though history has heartily concurred.

By the way, that's a great YouTube link, since Previn is one of the few composers (along, of course, with Bernstein) who came to jazz with genuine humility. Most of the composers we associate with jazz, e.g. Stravinsky, were only interested in it for as long as it took to steal a few ideas.

[wildman]

Yeah, I was thinking the main reason why Horowitz would do that would be because he was surprised at how boundless Art's imagination was. Horowitz I think, did play improvisations by ear too, but perhaps not at the same level of Art - his version of Tea for Two - would have been mistaken as a written arrangement by a classical musician due to its extraordinary complexity.

But again didn't Horowitz also improvise (and virtuostically)?

[oxy60]

We're throwing terms around that need to be defined so we know what we are talking about. So, what is improvisation? Is it made up totally from thoughts at the time of performance or in the case of Tatum based on a known tune? Would not it be more accurate to characterize Tatum's T42 as an arrangement?

[wildman]

We're throwing terms around that need to be defined so we know what we are talking about. So, what is improvisation? Is it made up totally from thoughts at the time of performance or in the case of Tatum based on a known tune? Would not it be more accurate to characterize Tatum's T42 as an arrangement?

Agreed, it so seems that arrangement and on-the-spot improvisation are two different things. Arrangement usually involves the performer writing it down, or memorizing it, whilst improvisation is on the thoughts of the performer at the time of the performance.

I don't think Tatum's T42 can be called "an arrangement". First of all, he couldn't even read notes; he's blind. Most Jazz pianists improvise on a piece at the time of the performance, and I think this was exactly what Art Tatum did. He was capable of doing these things; he once said to Bud Powell, "look, let us perform together, and whatever your right hand does, I will do with my left hand".

Art had a perfect pitch, and it shows. Many high-end jazz pianists are known to improvise on the spot, and Art is one of them.

Horowitz, on the other hand, probably wrote them down, according to the story. From what I read, he makes virtuostic "arrangements" of different songs, such as Stars and Stripes. Did he actually write these down or improvise them? As a classical pianist I think Horowitz wrote them down. He wasn't probably as good as Tatum in improvisation. Heck, he couldn't actually get T42 right in the video. This is where he probably admired Tatum; Tatum could do these things on the spot, but Horowitz couldn't.

[oxy60]

Tatum's ability is incredible. Even with all the extras he put into T42 the listener can still hear that it is T42 underneath it all.

Here on this board we have original recordings from our members of improvisations which are totally original; not based on anything.

I'm looking for a term. Generally in my musical circles we refer to Tatum's T42 as a rendition. But I never thought that term did justice to what he played.

When you advance to a high level you will be asked to play an original rendition/improvisation of a given theme on the spot for the examiners. We could all wish we would sound like Art Tatum.