Frédéric Chopin - Scherzo No. 3 in C sharp minor, Op. 39 - Enzo (RECITAL)

[emill]

We would be most grateful for any observations, suggestions or comments.
This was played on June 30, 2011 in Enzo's solo recital in Manila.

[pianisten1989]

Yay, a piece I can actually comment on! Though, I have to practise now, but I will comment!


Edit: ... Once I find my music...

[perfect_pitch]

I myself haven't played the piece, but as someone who's listened to about a dozen different performances of this scherzo - I'll say a couple of things.

I think in some phrases towards the end of the piece (near the coda) you have to try and build a bit more anticipation. Because the ending is so technically energetic and furious in character - you play it with bravura and great skill. HOWEVER, I think you need to try and then take us to the climax point and make it abundantly clear exactly where the pinnacle of this energy and fury is, before bringing us to the last note. The energy has to reach that point of extremism to make us realise as a listener that the energy has to be released and disperse before the end point.

The last thing I will say from an audience's perspective is be careful of the jumping up and down on the stool towards the end. Yes it makes the piece look more demanding, but is it necessary? You don't want to turn your performance into Lang Lang choreography.

[emill]

Hi p_p !!

thank you for the comment and I must say that it seemed to me too that there was something lacking despite the fact that "it was played quite well" ... perhaps the fire ... the typhoon ... that final explosive ending but I could not could not place it properly. Perhaps you are right in that the phrases prior to the coda should be built up better ... I don't know? 

I have shown your comment to and printed it for Enzo. Usually on their in next meeting with his teacher they discuss observations/suggestions posted here in PS. I often wish that this kid of mine would be more verbally expressive and discuss points directly here, but his nature is one of verbal silence. Oh well..   THANKS A LOT!!

I hope pianisten1989 will give his comment as he posted he would soon....

[mikey6]

Probably a moot point (and I've been criticised for this too) but is there anyway you can start without your 'hand preparation'? In terms of setting the mood, it's a bit off putting.
That said, the introduction doesn't sound 'weird' enough to my ears.  it's such a strange opening, it sounds a bit nice atm; more threatening perhaps.
This is hard coz there are so many different versions of what Chopin wrote so I have to be careful what I say with regards to the score but at bar 21, I have a Risoluto marked.  Yours sounds more of a continuation from the previous bars when I would think he wants something new here.
A thought with regards to the rhythm at 31 - there's a big write up about this in the Ekier edition - perhaps not so strictly in time.  From what I remembered it said, Chopin wanted more of the illusion of this rhythm than the rhythm itself.  In fact, in one of the first editions, it has this rhythm as 3 straight crotchets.
The Build up from 75 could use more direction, it's a bit static.  Use the crescendo to help you.
99 could again be more risoluto, place it to give it more authority.
At 136, the 'pp' could be contrasted more against it's surrounding bars.
At the meno mosso, bar 154, maybe you could try not displacing the hands?  It's a chorale - if a choir or brass band were playing this, they would not displace.
And the endless debate of whether the chorale and it's 'decoration' should be played at a different tempo - it works perfectly well to keep it at the same tempo - it's just finding the right tempo to suit both.
With the whole chorale theme section, maybe try playing it through without the filigree(which does sound very good btw) to give you a sense of how to shape the entire theme, not just each 4 bars.  It's a bit sectional atm.
Can 251 onwards sound like washes of sound?  It's close, but could be better; less 'notey'.
287 needs to be an arrival, it kind of sounds like you stumble onto it.  He does mark it with an accent too!
Again, editions so not sure but do you have an 'f' at 296?
Bar 332 could have a change of colour.
The sotto voce at 336 sounds a bit lumpy, maybe use some pedal and leggiero.  It's quite an eerie effect.
The crescendo from 352 was a bit too loud too soon.  I just wonder if slowing up before the Tempo 1 works?  he does say stretto and accel to Tempo 1...maybe a personal opinion.
Take your time between 448-9 - it's a huge change of character, mood, everything!
Can 534-9 be more sotto voce?  Everything up to then sounds good, but this comes out of character just before the big build.
542 onwards every RH chord is placed, it's needs so start flowing.
I don't hear the bass at 573.  It's a structural point and needs to be pronounced.  You can take time into it to clear the pedal and the sound.
It's definitely on it's way, and is technically very impressive.  (Those octaves are a pregnant dog!)  Keep at it, and it should be great!

[pianisten1989]

Ok, there! I found them!


I agree with Mikey about the beginning. It's not special enough. I would play the last note shorter. And a bigger cresc. Maybe it's the recording, but I can't hear any cresc.
So a bigger crescendo in the first two times. But then he doesn't write a crescendo the third time, just an accent. So I wouldn't do a cresc, but almost a dim. Then the f becomes more surprising. It's like a fire the first two times, the third time you think it will go away, but then the explosion comes.

The next theme was fine. Though, there is no legato slurs and a mark about lifting the pedal in bar 26, and I think that's cool if you do a small hole there. Nothing big ofc, but not legato. The same thing in bar 106-107. Take some more time from the g# to the c# and with a hole between them.

You have to practise more on the slow theme. The (I don't know the english word but) bars between the theme are way to concrete for my taste. I don't know what it, but it doesn't feel right. If I find out what it is, I'll tell you! Maybe it's the tone... I see it as French horns.. But that probably wont help you...

It really turns me off, and I actually stop listen when the notes are that.. not the same time. He was fully capable of writing gliss if he wanted, but he didn't. It's like a fantasy world in the woods, a la Narnia, and the centaurs are greeting you to their world. You're playing it as, I'm sorry, 3 of them are perfectly fine, but the 4th is a bit drunk and are always behind. It's only the first time, but it's the first time every time the theme comes.
And play with more bass-notes! It brings such depth to the chords, but I can't hear it at all.. And I know most people say that you should play the top note the most, then the rest way way less, but now I miss the nice little changes he makes in the middle.

then it's basically the same...

bar 441, where the left hand comes in, here the chords Has to come at the same time, and you have to grow 10000 times more than you do. Much fuller and bigger tone, I think it's the lack of the deep bass notes... And don't restart the cresc! Keep going all the way out.

The stretto has to be way more dramatic and desperate. And the same with the coda. The crescendos have to be more sudden... Everything has to be more than you do.

The last note has to take more time. It's from very very high, to very very low. It's just not something that is done in a sec...

I agree with pp about the standing up and stuff. For me, when I see someone do it, I feel like as if he had done a bad performance, and has to do big movements to make it look more difficult.

And let go of the piano when you're done. It was ok if Arrau held onto the piano in his last concert, since he probably would fall apart if he didn't. But you are fully capable of standing by yourself. And walk out a bit more proud, would you? It looks like you are extremely disappointed with what you've done. Don't look down on the floor and try not to wave your arms that much when you walk out.

Anyway, good job!

[emill]

dear mikey6 ... dear pianisten1989,

First let me thank you for the detailed observations and suggestions both of you made on the Scherzo No.3 which Enzo played in his solo recital last June 30, 2011.  I printed copies and gave it to Enzo which I am sure they have taken up and discussed with his teacher as they have had 2 meetings since then.  His teacher always welcomes observations from others especially her colleagues from the University of the Philippines' College of Music and from what we give her from PS.

However, I would like to apologize that I can not respond to the observations and suggestions as my son's verbal output is almost zero .... if I ask him what his teacher or what he thinks of the comments,  his generic answer is often - their OKAY..    .... and ....  if I ask him if they have adapted the suggestions - his answer is either "Most of them"   or   "some of them".  I wish he would take the discussions in this forum personally rather than through me, but he is just like that, at least with me, his dad.  If I ask him to respond to comments by handIng him the keyboard ....  he dishes out one-liners the gist of which is a thank you.....hehhe   I know you will understand.  As Birba has correctly observed he usually improves a lot after his suggestions.  THANKS AGAIN !!!!!!