Wrist movement for Chopin Opus 10 no. 2

[iratior]

I think I've finally stumbled into a very beneficial wrist movement to apply in the Chopin Etude, Opus 10 no. 2.  To apply it, first imagine that there could be a miraculous magical material that would be like air, in that it offered no resistance to being entered, yet like a blackboard, in that it could be written on with chalk.  Then, imagining that one's wrist was made of chalk, think what it would be like to write a lower-case cursive 'e', if the blackboard were positioned to pass through one's wrist, and be perpendicular to the line segment visible as the crack between the F and G above middle C on the piano, while one's fingers, 1,2,3,4, and 5, stayed fixed on the D above middle C, F,G,A, and B, respectively.  As one writes the letter e on the blackboard, the motion goes through four phases:  rightward and upward, leftward and upward, leftward and downward, rightward and downward.  Having conceived of how the wrist is to move when the fingers are fixed, we have to "build" this motion into the hand movement as a whole, when the fingers are moving.  In the middle of the rightward and downward phase, I found, is the optimal place to do the chord of the semiquaver group within the typical quarter-note of time in the etude.  One discovers that the wrist motion is more natural to do when the melody is decreasing in pitch, but even when not so, applying it helps lessen fatigue greatly.  It just takes patience to start very slowly, emphasizing the wrist movement in an exaggerated way at first.   And to describe it accurately seems best done by resort to the underlying geometry of it.

[iratior]

I see I need to make one thing in the description more precise:  it would be the TIPS of one's fingers staying fixed on D,F,G,A, and B.  The other parts of the fingers, of course, have to move as the wrist does.

[keyboardclass]

In the 1950's or 60's there was the odd score published with wrist movements transcribed above the staff.  I've got a nocturne done that way - I'm not sure how useful they were.

[iratior]

Interesting.  Maybe the reason wrist movement notation never caught on was that it was not precise enough.  To be precise enough, it would have to say whether the movement should be clockwise or counterclockwise, and where on the circle of motion the fingers should be hitting the notes.

[nyiregyhazi]

Is it really necessary to be moving at the wrist? Why not just keep it loose and aligned? Maybe we're just coming at it from completely different problems but I find the biggest problem with this etude is unwanted movement at the wrist- which always seems to taking my wrist up and to too much to the right. Whenever this happens, it restricts free movement of the weak fingers and tends to cause the arm to start pressing. The only thing I think of at the wrist is to be sure that my forearm is pulling lightly backwards. That straightens out the wrist (whatever angle it might be starting at) and keep everything nicely aligned without need for any activity AT the wrist itself. Everything just converges into a perfect alignment- just like when you pull on a slack chain to straighten it out.

[iratior]

I see what you mean about how difficult things become if the wrist is up and to the right!  Fascinating, it was like an excursion into how NOT to have things.  That could account for why the more difficult quarter-note-length times are those where the pitch of the melody is rising.  The rising pitch tends to make the wrist go to the right and upwards.  Your method of pulling lightly backward with the forearm may be a way to correct that, and a counterclockwise motion of the wrist may have some of the same effect, especially since the counterclockwise motion has the effect of pulling the hand leftwards while it is raised.

[bachbrahmsschubert]

While I'm not really one that should give technical advice over the internet, I had a teacher once tell me that the more body parts that are moving (wrist, elbow etc.) to help the fingers is compensating for a lack of technique. This is not to say the body should be stiff while the fingers work. Any thoughts on this as it relates to the subject?

Also, I find this etude to be the most unholy piece of crap Chopin conjured at the piano. Beautiful work, but c'mon Chopin....let's be reasonable!

Best wishes,

[lelle]

While I'm not really one that should give technical advice over the internet, I had a teacher once tell me that the more body parts that are moving (wrist, elbow etc.) to help the fingers is compensating for a lack of technique.

What? wrists, elbows, arms are all essential parts in technique from what I have learned. Try playing the second movement in Scriabins sonata no. 2 without a moving, flexible wrist!

[bachbrahmsschubert]

What? wrists, elbows, arms are all essential parts in technique from what I have learned. Try playing the second movement in Scriabins sonata no. 2 without a moving, flexible wrist!

You're taking it too literally.

Translate it to being forced to move other body parts because the fingers can't. That's the impression I got with reading about the poster's wrist movements.

Best wishes,

[iratior]

I readily admit that my fingers alone can't do the opus 10 no. 2!  So of course I look to see if other body parts could be of help!  No guilt here.  My only regret is that I don't have witch-like powers to move the keys with my mind.

[nyiregyhazi]

I readily admit that my fingers alone can't do the opus 10 no. 2!  So of course I look to see if other body parts could be of help!  No guilt here.  My only regret is that I don't have witch-like powers to move the keys with my mind.

But what can the arm really do in this etude? I don't think it's possible for it to help in any direct way. I can't see this study being done with the arm bobbing up and down to play the notes. That's exactly the problem I've been having to remove, for it to flow properly. However, I do think that absolutely tiny movements around the wrist can take out blockages in a way that serves to free up easier movement of the fingers- so I'm not writing off the idea entirely.

[keyboardclass]

Interesting.  Maybe the reason wrist movement notation never caught on was that it was not precise enough.  To be precise enough, it would have to say whether the movement should be clockwise or counterclockwise, and where on the circle of motion the fingers should be hitting the notes.

It was squiggles which showed up, down, right, left directions.

[keyboardclass]

Is it really necessary to be moving at the wrist?

Just as we need to use the conformation of the fingers, we need no less to use the rest of the hand, the wrist, the forearm and the arm. - one cannot try to play everything from the wrist, as Kalkbrenner claims.

Chopin

[nyiregyhazi]

Chopin

In what way does that quote implies that the wrist should be flailing around, rather than maintaining a simple alignment? It's totally non-specific and extremely ambiguous.

Just look at Garrick Ohlsson playing the Etude.

The wrist is loose yet almost constantly aligned. It only moves notably from side to side when there is a big distance between the thumb and 5th finger. There's very little visible movement.

[keyboardclass]

In what way does that quote implies that the wrist should be flailing around,

Using  the hand, wrist, forearm and arm don't necessarily entail 'flailing' about - yet another straw man of yours.

[nyiregyhazi]

Using  the hand, wrist, forearm and arm don't necessarily entail 'flailing' about - yet another straw man of yours.

Speaking of strawmen, I was explicitly suggesting the very same thing you said above and not opposing it- as you for some reason portray. My point was that the quote does NOT point towards the need for either flailing or necessarily even moving notably around the wrist AT ALL. It's a very ambiguous quote- even if Chopin were to be regarded as the final authority on all matters technical.

[pianowolfi]

Just look at Garrick Ohlsson playing the Etude.

LOL that's an abbreviated version of the Etude   hence the time record (blame the TV I guess  )