PETROF vs ESTONIA (190cm)

[cysoto]

I will soon be buying my first Grand Piano.  Originally I had looked at either a YAMAHA C3 or a C5.  I was recently told that I should also consider some other manufacturers out there, so I did.  I started asking around and the names ESTONIA and PETROF kept coming up.  I finally had the opportunity to try out both of these units today but (and here's the catch) under different acoustic environments.  I have a preference for the sound quality of the ESTONIA but it's really hard to tell if this was due to the room that it was located in or if it was the quality of this particular unit.

In terms of apparent quality they both look very well built.  As to their sounds... well, again, different acoustic environments so I couldn't really tell.  The action on both of these units is almost identical (BTW they both have RENNER actions).  

In terms of price the PETROF is a cheaper ($19,000US) vs. $24,000US for the ESTONIA.  As you can see, these prices are cheaper than a YAMAHA and I must admit that I like the sound of the European pianos more (it's more mellow).  I also had a chance to try out a PRAMBERGER but this unit did not impress me a single bit.  Maybe I'm biased against Korean made pianos.

The sales person told me that the Quality Assurance on ESTONIAS is better than the PETROFS.  Meaning that a small percentage of PETROFS need a quite a bit of voicing after being bought to be able to produce optimal quality.  He mentioned that ESTONIAS are more consistent in their quality and that they normally require less work to help them sound their best.  Is this true?

Now, after all this information, here is my question:  Would I be better of saving some money and buying the PETROF for $19,000US and risk having to spend a lot if time and money in order to voice it to my playing style (considering that I might end up with a mediocre quality piano) or should I spend the extra money ($24,000US).  Then again...  It is possible that this PETROF doesn't have anything that needs to be worked on.  It's hard for me to tell.

I will visit the retailer again in a couple of days but I'd like to be more informed this time.  I have already asked to have these pianos placed side-to-side so I can do a fair comparison next time I'm in the store.  I will also research Larry Fine's book to see what he has to say but I do appreciate any input I can get from the members of this forum.

I need help deciding.  PLEASE HELP ME!!

[wynnbear]

Go to https://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi and search the piano forum archives.  There are a number of Estonia and Petrof fans on that board and you will find many, many posts about these two.  From the price, I assume the Estonia you are considering is the larger 190.  It has a lot of fans.

The Estonia has what is usually described as a very sweet, mellow (almost dark) sound with extremely long sustain.   The Petrof is usually a brighter sound and is more powerful.

It sounds like you prefer the Estonia.  I think you can buy with confidence.

[donjuan]

The sales person told me that the Quality Assurance on ESTONIAS is better than the PETROFS.  Meaning that a small percentage of PETROFS need a quite a bit of voicing after being bought to be able to produce optimal quality.  He mentioned that ESTONIAS are more consistent in their quality and that they normally require less work to help them sound their best.  Is this true?

You should never trust salespeople because their primary goal is to take your money, and as much of it at a single time.  Petrofs have have quality control problems because they were made in the Czech republic and not seasoned for north American climate.  They are, however getting much better and becoming excellent instruments for practicing and performing on.

I have never played an Estonia, but I know I LOVE Petrofs. --> Best pianos I have ever played.

Just ignore the sales person and go with the piano that suits you the best.
donjuan

[xvimbi]

Estonias are amazing. Although around for a long time, they are only now establishing themselves in the broader market. If you are happy with the piano, grab it before they increase their prices. It's bound to happen.

[Axtremus]

Going by the numbers you quoted, yeah, the Petrof would be cheaper than a C3, and the Estonia 190 would be in between a C3 and a C5.

If you find yourself liking the new Estonia 190 more, be assured that you'll be getting a good piano. There is no inherent problem with new Estonia pianos that I am aware of. Besides, depending on the dealer and the market, there might still be room to negotiate on the $24,000 asking price. Personally, I also like the Estonia 190's tone.

It may be possible to buy the cheaper Petrof and then hire someone to get it up to shape and still save money -- $5000 can certainly achieve a lot. Questions are: Are you confident enough to pick a Petrof with that potential, and, are you sure you can find a piano technician compentent enough to take the piano to where you expect it to be?

Of course, if you can find a Petrof that you already like in the showroom -- then just buy that one (take down the serial number and insist on that one being delivered), then you won't have to pay much for voicing work afterwards. Probably still need to budget for some minor voicing and regulation work (a small fraction of the $5000 difference), but you reduce the risk of buying a Petrof that may never develop the kind of tone you want.

[ EDIT:

As for acoustic environment -- smaller space will make the piano sound louder, hard surfaces like hardwood floor, concrete walls, etc. will make the piano sound brighter and louder; soft carpet/furniture, soft wall covering, curtains, rugs, etc. will make the piano sounds softer/mellower.

If two pianos as placed "side by side," then remember to close the lid on the piano on the right when you play the piano on the left -- to avoid sound from piano on the left getting reflected by the lid of the piano on the right. In general, when playing piano with the lid open, the lid should open towards an empty space.

Also don't forget to test pianos with lids CLOSED as well OPENED at various positions, and with the music stand folded as well as in upright position -- the music stand will change the way you perceove the sound, and in the home, there is a good chance that you'll be playing the piano with the lid closed -- so might as well test for those conditions. ]

Good luck.

[rich_galassini]

cysoto,

I am glad you found Estonias toplay. Both the Petrof and Estonia will hold up well. There are quality differences between the two - in fact the Estonia piano has had dozens of improvements over the past two years.

Full Disclosure - I sell them

Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.

[rich_galassini]

A Philadelphia radio station recently chose an Estonia 190 as their primary recording instrument:

https://www.temple.edu/temple_times/8-5-04/news.html

I am the one on the left.  

Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.

[cysoto]

You are looking sharp in that photo Rich!!  Thank You for your previous reply.  I got in contact with the local dealer for ESTONIA (who also sells PETROFS).  They both seem to be great pianos.  Certainly better quality and sound than some other pianos I had the chance to play.  Their price is also extremely tempting.  

I am almost certain that I will end up with ine of these (although I can't rule out the VOGEL).  Oh My, My, My...  So many great pianos and I can only choose one!!  How unfair!!  :-/