Anyone have a midi of Sorabji?

[steinway_d]

Look at:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=32862.0

It hasn't been looked at for a while.
Post any midis in this forum only, please!

I am planning to make one 4 hour midi file of
all of your midi's so you can all access it.

I will also edit, so try to
do your best. All the best,

steinway_d

[ahinton]

Look at:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=32862.0

It hasn't been looked at for a while.
Post any midis in this forum only, please!

I am planning to make one 4 hour midi file of
all of your midi's so you can all access it.

I will also edit, so try to
do your best. All the best,

steinway_d

Er - please don't. Thank you. There's no need in any case, given that almost all the recordings of his work that have been issued over the past 20+ years are all still readily available, as are all the scores, so it's not as though people don't already have easy access to this material.

Best,

Alistair

[bleicher]

I reckon steinway_d invented this topic just to wind Alistair up.

[ahinton]

I reckon steinway_d invented this topic just to wind Alistair up.

If so, he/she will largely hae wasted his/her time, since such a bid has been unsuccessful, as will be obvious from the tone of my response to a post which, perhaps unfortunately for some, has provided yet another opportunity for mention of the availability of Sorabji's scores and of recordings of his music.

For more details, see www.sorabji-archive.co.uk or write directly to us at sorabji-archive@lineone.net, of course!

Best,

Alistair

[steinway_d]

"Er - please don't. Thank you. There's no need in any case, given that almost all the recordings of his work that have been issued over the past 20+ years are all still readily available, as are all the scores, so it's not as though people don't already have easy access to this material.

Best,

Alistair"


I still want to do it anyways.

Thanks,

steinway_d

[ahinton]

"Er - please don't. Thank you. There's no need in any case, given that almost all the recordings of his work that have been issued over the past 20+ years are all still readily available, as are all the scores, so it's not as though people don't already have easy access to this material.

Best,

Alistair"


I still want to do it anyways.

Thanks,

steinway_d

Then on your own head be it.

Best,

Alistair

[DeusExMachina]

Having heard this pianist perform Sorabji numerous times, and of course, his recordings, Michael Habermann is by far the best pianist for K. Sorabji.

[bmn3]

deleted

[dogperson]

Sorry for reviving this, but just to let you know, I have numerous MIDIs of Sorabji's music, full MIDIs and excerpts. If you want it, you can't get it because Alistair probably forbids any kind of act like that.

If you think the sharing is prohibited, why would you think it appropriate to post this implied sharing invitation on this forum?  Maybe you should delete your post.

[ahinton]

Sorry for reviving this, but just to let you know, I have numerous MIDIs of Sorabji's music, full MIDIs and excerpts. If you want it, you can't get it because Alistair probably forbids any kind of act like that.

The law is the law. That aside, why might you even want to post MIDI files of music that has already been performed by the real live pianists that the composer intended to present it? You might, however, care to enlighten members here as to the sources of your MIDI files and of what works they consist.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Sorry for reviving this, but just to let you know, I have numerous MIDIs of Sorabji's music, full MIDIs and excerpts. If you want it, you can't get it because Alistair probably forbids any kind of act like that.

Well?...

[lostinidlewonder]

Against the law to post midis? Please!

[ahinton]

Against the law to post midis? Please!

I made no such claim. What IS illegal, however, is the uploading to public areans of music, whether in MIDI form or peformed by human musicians, where copyright in the music itself and/or the performances and/or the recordings / broadcasts apply but no relevant consent has been sought in advance from the copyright owner/s.

Simples.

The uploading of MIDIS as such is a different question in that the point in so doing is questionable when live performances of the same music by human musicians are available.

Best,

Alistair

[ted]

I am not sure of its relevance to this discussion but, unlike a recording, a MIDI file is essentially a score too. Even a relatively simple program such as Garageband on Macs can, albeit with a little editing, print a pretty readable sort of score from a MIDI, good enough for learning purposes anyway, and I am sure more sophisticated software must exist by now to do this task legibly for more complex music. Perhaps this is why there seem to be fewer sites around now with free MIDI downloads.

[lostinidlewonder]

What IS illegal, however, is the uploading to public areans of music, whether in MIDI form or peformed by human musicians, where copyright in the music itself and/or the performances and/or the recordings / broadcasts apply but no relevant consent has been sought in advance from the copyright owner/s.

So should everyone playing their rendition of Disney music on youtube should stop? Any busker playing copyright music in public should be worried? We don't see legal action taken in these cases because they are such small fry. It would waste money to go after such small things If someone is making a lot of money then it might be worth your time.

[dogperson]

So should everyone playing their rendition of Disney music on youtube should stop? Any busker playing copyright music in public should be worried? We don't see legal action taken in these cases because they are such small fry. It would waste money to go after such small things If someone is making a lot of money then it might be worth your time.

That copyright holders don’t take legal action against the ‘small fry’ doesn’t change that the act was illegal.  Legality is based on laws, not whether you will be caught and prosecuted.

[ahinton]

So should everyone playing their rendition of Disney music on youtube should stop? Any busker playing copyright music in public should be worried? We don't see legal action taken in these cases because they are such small fry. It would waste money to go after such small things If someone is making a lot of money then it might be worth your time.

As I presume you to know, anyone who uploads copyright music to YouTube without first obtaining written permission to do so risks having their uploads taken down by YouTube which will do this promptly upon receipt of evidence from the copyright holder/s or his/her/their legal representatives and YouTube may exercise its right to close uploaders' channels upon repeat offences; it would therefore appear that YouTube takes a different slant on intellectual property law and its operation than you seem to do. "Dogperson"'s response sums up the situation well; I recommend that you take due notice of it. Thank you.

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

From the audition room instructions:

"Recordings of your own performances of copyright protected pieces by contemporary composers are OK since we have a licens for providing them."

So presumably it would be acceptable to post midis there, unless a midi doesn't count as a "performance"?

[ronde_des_sylphes]

As I presume you to know, anyone who uploads copyright music to YouTube without first obtaining written permission to do so risks having their uploads taken down by YouTube which will do this promptly upon receipt of evidence from the copyright holder/s or his/her/their legal representatives and YouTube may exercise its right to close uploaders' channels upon repeat offences; it would therefore appear that YouTube takes a different slant on intellectual property law and its operation than you seem to do. "Dogperson"'s response sums up the situation well; I recommend that you take due notice of it. Thank you.

Best,

Alistair

In reality, YT will either monetise the upload or block it, depending on the option specified by the copyright holder (assuming it correctly detects the content contained within the upload, which is far from a given). There is plenty Sorabji on YT.

[ahinton]

From the audition room instructions:

"Recordings of your own performances of copyright protected pieces by contemporary composers are OK since we have a licens for providing them."

So presumably it would be acceptable to post midis there, unless a midi doesn't count as a "performance"?

Well, that's a good question and, after all, whose "performance" is it would be another. To my knowledge YT adopts the same stance on MIDIs of copyright music as it does on performances thereof, to the extent that it will take down either upon receipt and acceptance of reports of copyright infringement.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

In reality, YT will either monetise the upload or block it, depending on the option specified by the copyright holder (assuming it correctly detects the content contained within the upload, which is far from a given). There is plenty Sorabji on YT.

In practice, I've never known YT to monetise such uploads; I have only ever known them to be blocked and, on occasion, the uploader's channel to be likewise. There's a whole lot less Sorabji on YT than was once the case but the appearance of any there does not necessarily clarify whether due permissions were given for it.

I still maintain that uploads of MIDIS of music that is available in live performances are of questionable purpose (which is a different subject); likewise, uploads of MIDIs of music that has yet to be performed by live musicians come with the potential danger that listeners will come away from them with the impression that they are a credible representation of how the music should sound - which is why any such MIDIs are best shared privately rather than in the public arena.

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

In practice, I've never known YT to monetise such uploads; I have only ever known them to be blocked and, on occasion, the uploader's channel to be likewise. There's a whole lot less Sorabji on YT than was once the case but the appearance of any there does not necessarily clarify whether due permissions were given for it.

I still maintain that uploads of MIDIS of music that is available in live performances are of questionable purpose (which is a different subject); likewise, uploads of MIDIs of music that has yet to be performed by live musicians come with the potential danger that listeners will come away from them with the impression that they are a credible representation of how the music should sound - which is why any such MIDIs are best shared privately rather than in the public arena.

Best,

Alistair

Ok, I'm speaking from direct personal experience in that there is material on my channel which has also been released commercially: consequently anything of mine which has been identified as such (ranging from "trailer" type sample videos to live performances which in fact *aren't* the same recordings) has been monetised. I suspect differing policies by different entities here.

I agree re midis, particularly crudely done ones, giving a false impression of the merit of the music, but that is another question altogether.

[ahinton]

Ok, I'm speaking from direct personal experience in that there is material on my channel which has also been released commercially: consequently anything of mine which has been identified as such (ranging from "trailer" type sample videos to live performances which in fact *aren't* the same recordings) has been monetised. I suspect differing policies by different entities here.

I agree re midis, particularly crudely done ones, giving a false impression of the merit of the music, but that is another question altogether.

I suspect that you are correct about the former and certainly so about the latter! MIDIs can vary greatly in quality but, ultimately, they're still MIDIs.

Best,

Alistair

[lostinidlewonder]

That copyright holders don’t take legal action against the ‘small fry’ doesn’t change that the act was illegal.  Legality is based on laws, not whether you will be caught and prosecuted.

Well good luck wasting money chasing them that was my point lol.

[lostinidlewonder]

As I presume you to know, anyone who uploads copyright music to YouTube without first obtaining written permission to do so risks having their uploads taken down by YouTube which will do this promptly upon receipt of evidence from the copyright holder/s or his/her/their legal representatives and YouTube may exercise its right to close uploaders' channels upon repeat offences; it would therefore appear that YouTube takes a different slant on intellectual property law and its operation than you seem to do.

My point was that it is often not worth the time and effort to do so, there are thousands upon thousands of people posting copyright music all over the internet from powers which have the money to waste to chase these things but they don't. What are they going to do? Sue anyone who dares sing something thats on the charts and posts it online, take down the 5 year old who dares play something on the piano thats copyright and posts it online, run and tackle all those buskers who sing out in public? Like I said, good luck chasing the small fry, you'd want to have a lot of money/time for such a cause if you want to chase it up everywhere. 

[ahinton]

My point was that it is often not worth the time and effort to do so, there are thousands upon thousands of people posting copyright music all over the internet from powers which have the money to waste to chase these things but they don't. What are they going to do? Sue anyone who dares sing something thats on the charts and posts it online, take down the 5 year old who dares play something on the piano thats copyright and posts it online, run and tackle all those buskers who sing out in public? Like I said, good luck chasing the small fry, you'd want to have a lot of money/time for such a cause if you want to chase it up everywhere.

I am not an intellectual property rights lawyer, so I deal only with certain copyright infringements that directly affect me. That has so far cost me nothing but has often achieved the necessary results. Your point about money is therefore invalid.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Well good luck wasting money chasing them that was my point lol.

But your "point" would be valid only in cases where money is spent in order to do this; applying to have copyright material taken down from YT and elsewhere costs nothing.

Best,

Alistair

[lostinidlewonder]

But your "point" would be valid only in cases where money is spent in order to do this; applying to have copyright material taken down from YT and elsewhere costs nothing.

That has so far cost me nothing but has often achieved the necessary results. Your point about money is therefore invalid.

"Time is money" therefore my post about money is quite valid also Dog mentioned prosecution which of course costs money.

[ahinton]

"Time is money" therefore my post about money is quite valid also Dog mentioned prosecution which of course costs money.

Sure, but I've never needed to prosecute and the amount of time involved in each such takedown application is a mere few seconds, so no problem.

Best,

Alistair

[lostinidlewonder]

Sure, but I've never needed to prosecute and the amount of time involved in each such takedown application is a mere few seconds, so no problem.

The task to locate each case also takes time and then to work out if they have authority or not, in your case there are many uploads of Sorabji's work all over the internet in different media formats so I guess you also dont mind about those small fry (which is a good thing since his music deserves more attention) though it would be hard to imagine any other type.

Best,

Lostinidlewonder

[ahinton]

The task to locate each case also takes time and then to work out if they have authority or not, in your case there are many uploads of Sorabji's work all over the internet in different media formats so I guess you also dont mind about those small fry (which is a good thing since his music deserves more attention) though it would be hard to imagine any other type.

Best,

Lostinidlewonder

Yes, they come and they go but, as I mentioned, the amout of time involved is minimal and I have yet to have cause to prosecute, which would indeed be expensive and couter-productive - but it's not just me; any performer, broadcaster or record company involved can do this without reference to me because thery have their interests to serve as well. For the record, I have no objection to small extracts being uploaded on what would effectively be the musical equivalent of the "fair use" terms applicable to literary writings - indeed, I welcome it - but when whole works on commercial recordings are uploaded, that's quite another matter. There is, incidentally, no problem in finding out about authority; I have it, as do others (unless I misunderstand your meaning here).

What's most important is that there are now more than 40 CD products of or including Sorabji's music out there available for purchase. Those who wish to create MIDIs from scores are welcome to do so and to share them provided that they do so privately rather than in the public arena.

Best,

Alistair

[lostinidlewonder]

Yes, they come and they go but, as I mentioned, the amout of time involved is minimal

I guess there is minimal time involved when they come to your attention and you don't have to actively seek them out, there are just plenty out there currently and more being uploaded every year from people personally playing the works themselves. To chase them all up constantly that would take a lot of time.

I have no objection to small extracts being uploaded

Extracts that people play themselves or you mean from cds actually that are for sale?

but when whole works on commercial recordings are uploaded, that's quite another matter.

I don't think that would be good to post commecial recordings, I was talking more about no commercial recordings people have made themselves and upload them for others to listen to.

What's most important is that there are now more than 40 CD products of or including Sorabji's music out there available for purchase.

Digital formats seem better these days, CD sales are so low these days compared to early 2000 when it was quite large, it is some 10x smaller market now.

[ahinton]

Extracts that people play themselves or you mean from cds actually that are for sale?

Either; "fair use" is "fair use" and it can encourage listener interest so that they can go out and buy the CDs.

I don't think that would be good to post commecial recordings, I was talking more about no commercial recordings people have made themselves and upload them for others to listen to.

It's commercial recordings and broadcasts that most concern me; if an artist wants to upload his/her own performance and requests permission to do so, that's quite another matter. Posting commercial recordings in their entirety disincentivises purchases, which is obviously against the record companies' interests.

Digital formats seem better these days, CD sales are so low these days compared to early 2000 when it was quite large, it is some 10x smaller market now.

That is at least in part because complete CDs are so often posted on facilities such as YouTube; who's going to fork out $40 for the 3-CDs-for-the-price-of-2 Fourth Piano Sonata of Sorabji when they can get it for free on YouTube (as was the case before it got taken down some time ago)?

Best,

Alistair

[lostinidlewonder]

Either; "fair use" is "fair use" and it can encourage listener interest so that they can go out and buy the CDs.

I can understand against posting entire works from a CD that is commercially for sale though for private recordings of ones own playing would seem beneficial though to make sorabji better known and to generate interest, there are some amazing examples of non commerical recordings which have caused some excitement amongst Sorabji fans.

It's commercial recordings and broadcasts that most concern me; if an artist wants to upload his/her own performance and requests permission to do so, that's quite another matter.

Sure that makes sense I wonder how many have asked for permission though from the many examples that remain on the internet.

Posting commercial recordings in their entirety disincentivises purchases, which is obviously against the record companies' interests.

Yep I agree on that one.

That is at least in part because complete CDs are so often posted on facilities such as YouTube; who's going to fork out $40 for the 3-CDs-for-the-price-of-2 Fourth Piano Sonata of Sorabji when they can get it for free on YouTube (as was the case before it got taken down some time ago)?

Also more people (certainly the majority of the younger generations) are no longer using CDs as much these days since we have devices which have made them somewhat obsolete.