appassionata scale

[themanwhowas]

Hi,
i'm not sure what you call it, like a scale but the notes go down and up throughout the scale, ie, c,e,a,c,f,a,d,f etc, going down. The first scale in appassionata mvt 1 is a good example and is in fact what I'm asking help for. There are similar scales in moonlight mvt 1 but they are slower and I have no problem with these. What kind of fingering do i use for this for faster speeds? I find myself just using thumb and middle finger (1 and 3) and lots of pedal but I can't do it as fast as it should be. I'm sure i should be treating it like an arpegio but the fact that it's not in a straight direction is throwing me.

Any help? Any advice?

Thanks

[quantum]

Alternating note pattern?  Being more specific with bar numbers would help. 

Try grouping notes into clusters in order to visualize the overall direction.  Also try to think of notes as belonging to a hand position.  Each hand position performs a gesture of movement.  Hand positions stitched together form the overall shape and direction of the pattern. 

Practice thinking the strategy of the execution.  Don't just rely on muscle memory. 

[themanwhowas]

bar 15 in https://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/multimedia/images/henle/part/hn58.jpg is what I'm refering to. As you can see the overall direction is downward but the pattern itself is down up down up down up

[pianowolfi]

That's not a scale, that's a triad. A diminished triad. And it's one of the most feared spots in the piano repertoire. A lot of pianists share it between the hands, for safety reasons! When this appears again in this sonata you will have to play it with the right hand alone anyway, because there is a left hand part to play along! But then you already have had time to warm up and adapt to the situation.

[sucom]

Are you referring to bar 14 and 15?  The fingering I use for the semiquavers is:

Bar 14 Right hand: E4 Bb2 G5 E1 Bb4 G2; E1 G5 Bb2 E4 G1 Bb3; E1 G5 Bb2 E4 G1 Bb3; E1 G5 Bb2 E4 G1 Bb3;
Bar 15: Right hand E1 G5 Bb2 E4 Left hand G5 Bb4 E2 G1 Bb3 Db2 Right hand E1 G2 Bb4

This fingering will allow you to build up speed fairly easily.

[scottmcc]

At the risk of angering the anti-hanon forces, I suggest that you look at the exercises there dealing with this type of pattern, which is generally referred to as a broken arpeggio.  Ex 49 and 57.  Alternatively liszt technical exercises or other such series will address these patterns in depth, I'm just away from my copy at present to quote exact references.  As wolfi already mentioned, it's quite hard to play properly, but I would also suggest that if you are overburdened by this bar you are probably not ready for this sonata--it only gets tougher.  But the second movement is much easier, give it a try!

[themanwhowas]

Thank you thank you.

I will try the fingering as suggested. I don't doubt that this piece is too advanced for me but I will try anyhow. I now have the hanon and liszt exercises. Very good. I will try and work through them

Thanks