Who are the Bachīs and Mozartīs of our time?

[sevencircles]

Some composers got surprisingly little attention during their lifetime but their legacy is truly immortal.  The best examples are Bach and Mozart but also Rachmaninov. Mozart was considered a childprodigy but he died in poverty and the undertaker was the only one attending the funeral. Bach got even less attention, very few people considered him the greatest composer in the world when he was alive. Many people propably considered him a mediocre composer that wrote music that was totally out of fashion.

Another good examples is Paganini, more then 200 years later people are transcribing his music for different instruments and perform it all over the world.

His capriceīs were considered unplayable when he was alive and it was propably hard for them to imagine that more then 200 years later. violinists and electric guitarists would be  performing them all over the world.

Of the composers and performers alive today, who do you think will get a lot more appreciation after their death then during their lifetime? What are the best examples of musical masterminds that donīt get the attention they deserve today?

[minor9th]

I don't know, but I do know that one never uses apostrophes to indicate plurals! It should be Bachs, Mozarts, caprices, etc.

[sevencircles]

I don't know, but I do know that one never uses apostrophes to indicate plurals! It should be Bachs, Mozarts, caprices, etc.

Iīm from Sweden. I hardly use English every day. 

[minor9th]

Iīm from Sweden. I hardly use English every day. 

Oh...well, all is forgiven!

To seriously answer your question, I have no idea and wonder the same thing myself. A lot of the British New Complexity pieces just seem ridiculously difficult to play. Will they ever become more appreciated and widely performed by future generations? For me, it's hard to hear any actual music in most of them. I guess I can appreciate the horrific difficulties and requisite technique to play them, but that doesn't mean they make for enjoyable listening. Maybe some day.

[sevencircles]

[/quote]

To seriously answer your question, I have no idea and wonder the same thing myself. A lot of the British New Complexity pieces just seem ridiculously difficult to play. Will they ever become more appreciated and widely performed by future generations? For me, it's hard to hear any actual music in most of them. I guess I can appreciate the horrific difficulties and requisite technique to play them, but that doesn't mean they make for enjoyable listening. Maybe some day.

I can agree with you, The majority of the new complexity seems to be difficult to listen to and perform just for the sake of being difficult. I personally think that some avantgarde composers that use tonal elements like Penderecki and composers in the spectral tradition compose really interesting works sometimes that might be too demanding for todayīs performers too play really well.

There are propably only a handfull of performers in the world that can even sightread your work If you compose complex avantegarde works for electric guitar or bass guitar for instance.

Maybe there is a composer out there that writes true masterpieces for electric guitar that no performer out there can perform well today.

It should be mentioned that Bach, Mozart, Paganini etc. were a lot more famous during their lifetime  then the majority of the classical composers of our time so they had a better chance so to speak.   
.

[m1469]

Something I've been thinking about for a time now, is Bach's supposed religious dedications for all his pieces towards God.  I don't have a beef with it.  But, consider the fact that at his time, really the only way to make a living as a musician was for Kings or for Church?  Also, church largely dictated society and "philosophy" and nearly all things.  Maybe his dedications were political?  So, what better way to secure a position than to dedicate one's art to God, amidst a time when music was scarcely even thought of as an artform in and of itself, but as almost strictly a service to church (or to whims of Royalty)?  Maybe, anyway, he was even quite passionate about his music beyond what anybody could ever know, and did what it took to get it into the world?

Also, people seem to love to talk about Bach's secular, non-dance-related, and non-song-related writings, such as his WTC and the inventions and sinfonias as works which were not meant for performance.  Well, in the days of his life, instrumental music, and especially keyboard music, scarcely had its own identity.  The constructs of society did not support this music as stand alone art, but who's to say Bach wrote it with no intention for it to be performed?  Maybe that doesn't matter so much, I guess, as it seems many/most people don't prefer to sit in a concert of Bach.  But, even so, perhaps there is still more to be gleaned from the writing itself if one does not approach it as though it were living in a realm of musical outcast - but perhaps as music before its time.

And, lastly, generally Bach was not ignored.  He was actually quite respected in his time, but the way music was treated at the time was generally not such that music was immortalized in the ways we think of it today.

Okay, bye bye!

[nanabush]

Electronic music.. I can't even imagine what that's going to be like in 25 years!  I don't mean dance/club music, but I just mean electronic instruments, and electronic pieces. 

Personally, I don't like the 'modern' stuff that (at first listen, without a score or any possible way of understanding the analysis/structure) sounds like a rhythmic earthquake.  I also don't think that many everyday people who don't have years of music theory training (and can't readily understand the composer's intentions other than making a LOT of noise) will really appreciate that music. 

What I can't wait for is another movement where educated composers create amazing intricate works, but appeal to a large enough audience and get the attention they deserve.  Then they could take over and eliminate Rihanna! (ok, that's more of a daydream but I have my hopes!)

[sevencircles]

And, lastly, generally Bach was not ignored.  He was actually quite respected in his time, but the way music was treated at the time was generally not such that music was immortalized in the ways we think of it today.

He was mostly respected as an organ virtuoso. Very few people in those days realized his importance as a composer though. Many of the greatest musical experts do still consider him the greatest composer that ever lived  despite everything that happened since then.

Electronic music.. I can't even imagine what that's going to be like in 25 years!  I don't mean dance/club music, but I just mean electronic instruments, and electronic pieces.

Many people said the same thing about travelling in outer space and similar in 1970. and it didnīt happen that much in reality 

Of course you can write a whole symphony with all kinds of electronic sounds but it is not something that would impress people today.

But then again, people werenīt very impressed bý Bachīs compositions when he was alive either...   

[Derek]

My personal belief is the world is full of millions (well ok maybe not millions) of people of equal or greater talent to Bach, Mozart, etc. The problem is everyone wants to perpetuate there being only a handful of amazing composers. The solution? Look inward. Be your own Bach, your own Mozart. Forget anyone else. Sure, some might listen to your music---but it will only be those people who are not on the international bandwagon to search for "the next great composer."  Just my two cents.  Consider also how cohesive cultures were back then. Now we are fractured and noisy, and everyone creates their own subjective reality about everything including music. It is impossible to be a "mozart" or a "bach" today. You can only be yourself.

[sevencircles]

My personal belief is the world is full of millions (well ok maybe not millions) of people of equal or greater talent to Bach, Mozart, etc. The problem is everyone wants to perpetuate there being only a handful of amazing composers. The solution? Look inward. Be your own Bach, your own Mozart. Forget anyone else. Sure, some might listen to your music---but it will only be those people who are not on the international bandwagon to search for "the next great composer."  Just my two cents.  Consider also how cohesive cultures were back then. Now we are fractured and noisy, and everyone creates their own subjective reality about everything including music. It is impossible to be a "mozart" or a "bach" today. You can only be yourself.

Very true, it is very hard to be a composer today it seems like writing film scores is the only way to get publicity sometimes. A gateway is of course to have a really popular artist performing your music.  These artists are rarely capable of performing the most demanding contemporary works though. There are exceptions though like the violinist Anne-Sophie Mutter but she tends to focus on works by wellknown composers.

I canīt really picture the most famous classical pianist right now "Lang Lang" premiere a really demanding modern piano concerto by an unknown composer and do it great but i might underestimate his skills 

[nanabush]

Well I can't imagine space travel being on our to-do list right now; I don't think we'd have the economy right now to fund something like that without having a MASSIVE mob of angry citizens.

I don't mean someone sitting in front of their computer creating an entire digital symphony; but like more experimental stuff like amplified 'acoustic' instruments.  Electric guitar became absolutely HUGE in the last decades.  Electronics combined with music has already gone far... so I'm thinking this will be one aspect that will be studied from the late 20th/early 21st century by someone in, let's say, the year 2075.

I understand that the percussion section can make a load of sound effects, and if you have heard the 'Threnody for the victims of Hiroshima' by Penderecki, so can the entire string section.  I'm just wondering how we can keep elaborating on that too.

It seems we've already exhausted our harmonic language (western tuning) because a lot of composers have resorted to banging out cluster after cluster on the piano, or have resorted back to creating extremely harmonically simple music (new age, pop-rock).  Jazz is one freak of nature that will be remembered... the harmonic vocabulary of some jazz musicians is intense.  One of my friends is studying jazz guitar, and they do whatever they want!! His chord charts scare the crap out of me, and I've taken all of my classical theory/harmony classes.

I think that it's silly just to label '20th century' music as one musical era.  In that same century, we have had Debussy, Prokofiev, the Beatles, the Offspring, John Williams, John Adams, Ravi Shankar, etc, etc.  There are too many completely diverse styles and backgrounds that there can't just be one 'Bach' from today.  We are also very aware of music around the world with TV/Internet, and I'm pretty sure we are way more aware of musical diversity today than they were in the 1700's.

end of Rant-post.

[Derek]

just as a sort of tangential note, I don't think we've exhausted the possibilities of harmony. If you restrict the definition of harmony to simply pure vertical chordal progressions, that cuts out a huge number of ways of "mixing" the colors of harmony via rhythm and melody. I'm to a point where I don't think it is possible to exhaust. But, the vast vast majority of people are locked into thinking of it as a purely vertical aspect of music, and unfortunately that vast majority are those who deem themselves worthy of declaring what is and is not worthwhile in the world of classical music. Oh well.

In other words, I think for every 3000 voiced opinions, only one or two of the people voicing those opinions came to their conclusions on their own. It takes a long, long time for the majority to come around, if any new ideas pop up. That's why there are so many posthumously famous composers, I think.

[sevencircles]

It seems we've already exhausted our harmonic language (western tuning)

Western tuning is something that is natural to our ears but our scales are pretty limited actually.

Many composers have used microtunes in the west as well of course but in general it sounds just weird.

When I listen to Indian music they use microtones in a way that sounds really natural in general, the Indian vocalists are often incredible and the way some of them sing (and scat) sounds almost superhuman.

There is a lot of inspiration you can get from that kind music for sure the rhythms are in general really interesting too.

The most interesting parts from western electronic music, Indian music, Avantegarde orchestrations and harmonies plus bachstyle counterpoint seems like an interesting fusion to me as long as you are not experimenting for the sake of experimenting like some composers did in the 60:s.

[pianowolfi]

Well, there are no Bachs and Mozarts in our time because you can't split individuals (as the term "individual" already suggests). But there is Arvo Pärt, and Sofia Gubaidulina, and Pierre Boulez, and of course many others.
An individual is unique and irreplaceable and can't be copied. No matter how hard you try, you'll never get a second Bach or Mozart.

[sevencircles]

An individual is unique and irreplaceable and can't be copied. No matter how hard you try, you'll never get a second Bach or Mozart.

I was mostly thinking about neglected composers that have an outstanding talent. 

Boulez seems to be an outstanding talent  but he isnīt really my cup of tea.

He is propably a better conductor then composer. 

[bleicher]

Jonathan Harvey. He's an outstanding composer but not as well known as Birtwistle or Maxwell Davies, at least in the UK.

[sevencircles]

Jonathan Harvey. He's an outstanding composer but not as well known as Birtwistle or Maxwell Davies, at least in the UK.

A friend of yours perhaps?

Similar in style to Maxwell Davies?

[bleicher]

He isn't, although I have met him once! No, not similar in style to PMD, I just used those as examples British composers who are more famous than him. I think he's great because although many other composers use electronics, he is particularly good at incorporating it into his music in a sensitive, musical way.

[nataliethepianist]

Didn't they say Emily Bear was the next Mozart? Your thoughts? She is very talented, but will there  ever be another Mozart, at least in this generation?

[sevencircles]

Didn't they say Emily Bear was the next Mozart? Your thoughts? She is very talented, but will there  ever be another Mozart, at least in this generation?

There are others out there, in China in particular that are significantly better.

Among the childprodigies I would still call Saint-Saens almost untouchable. He could play any of Beethovenīs sonatas uptempo from memory as well as many other other hard pieces when he was 11 

A one in 10 Billion talent if he could do that. 

[gore234]

Video game companies hire composers to write stuff for their video games and some are really good.  I also think anybody who knows music theory could try to compose.  The more pieces you try to compose, the better you will get but you need to understand all the different forms and styles and structures. I also think its good for composers to learn more than one instrument.  People play music different on different instruments.  Horn players can't play chords unless they have more horn players to play all the notes of a chord when a piano player can play 10 notes at the same time.  There are people who secretly write their own music and never become famous.

[point of grace]

Stockhausen? Nono? Berio?

[sevencircles]

Stockhausen? Nono? Berio?

They have all been dead for a couple of years now and itīs hard to tell how important their legacy is. Stockhausen was a pioneer of electronic music for sure but i donīt think that people will be impressed by his works 50 years from now.

Video game companies hire composers to write stuff for their video games and some are really good.  I also think anybody who knows music theory could try to compose.  The more pieces you try to compose, the better you will get but you need to understand all the different forms and styles and structures.

True, any good examples? Some videogame composers are true masters of counterpoint.

Composing more pieces wonīt always make you a better composer, Everyone thatīs heard my compositions thinks that the best I ever done is one of the first pieces I ever wrote.

[gore234]

My favorite video game composers are Koji Kondo, Michiru Ōshima, Jesper Kyd, Kow Otani, and Michiru Yamane.

Koji Kondo and Michiru Yamane are really good.

[nataliethepianist]

How'd you all get video game composers from Bach and Mozart?

[sevencircles]

My favorite video game composers are Koji Kondo, Michiru Ōshima, Jesper Kyd, Kow Otani, and Michiru Yamane.

Any particular work from them that you recomend?

I remember an old Amiga game called Shadow Of The Beast that had really good music and samples despite the very limited possibilities that the Amiga had. David Whittaker that did the music is a true master of working with very limited computers.

[gore234]

A piece from the game castlevania

soundtrack from the game starfox64 composed by koji kondo

Koji kondo also did super mario pieces and alot more.

I also like the music from any of Blizzard's games such as world of warcraft and starcraft.