Bach's pedal?

[richterfan1]

I see many people today performs J.Sebastian's works with pedal, Bach never saw pedal in hes life!? are u using pedal while playing Bach?

[liszt_ani_rach]

I do use the pedal in some of bach's preludes and fugues. I use it to make it sound better, and so do everyone else.

[starlady]

Bach in his day was known as a great organist, so he must have known more about pedals than any of us.  In fact, Bach actually did see and play forte-pianos that had damper and soft pedals.  They were becoming popular towards the end of Bach's lifetime.  He said nice things about them but never owned one, or wrote specifically for one, which I think is a real shame.

--s.

[pianoman53]

I use pedal in bach, all the time. Only because he couldn't use it, doesn't mean we shouldn't. If it would be like that, we probably shouldn't play his music on pianos at all..

[thinkgreenlovepiano]

I see many people today performs J.Sebastian's works with pedal, Bach never saw pedal in hes life!? are u using pedal while playing Bach?

Yes. I use pedal for some of his pieces.

Considering that Bach didn't write for piano, and that pianos weren't so popular in his time, I don't think whether or not he saw a pedal is really relevant. The piano has a pedal on it... so if and when the music sounds better with pedal, and we're playing on a piano, why not use it? If we wanted to play the piano like a harpsichord, we might as well as play the harpsichord. It'd sound better that way. (I love harpsichords!!!! )  

 
That being said, my teacher tells me I tend to under-pedal all my pieces. I have to give her credit for most of my pedaling, especially in Bach...

[richterfan1]

Yes. I use pedal for some of his pieces.

Considering that Bach didn't write for piano, and that pianos weren't so popular in his time, I don't think whether or not he saw a pedal is really relevant. The piano has a pedal on it... so if and when the music sounds better with pedal, and we're playing on a piano, why not use it? If we wanted to play the piano like a harpsichord, we might as well as play the harpsichord. It'd sound better that way. (I love harpsichords!!!! )   

 
That being said, my teacher tells me I tend to under-pedal all my pieces. I have to give her credit for most of my pedaling, especially in Bach...

haha im also learning op.27 no.1 by Chopin (did op.9 in b flat), and frecnh suite no.5 - thats why i asked u for pedal, il use it in a slow movements! all are working on french suite no.3 in B minor, so my teacher gave me G Major its very nice, sarabande, loure, i love slow Bach

[keyboardclass]

Chopin often uses pedal just for its loudness effect.  Why not Bach?  It was called the loud pedal in his day.

[healdie]

I use it to make it sound better, and so do everyone else.

You can speak for yourself, what a strange comment to make, the pedal does not make Bach sound better I never really use the pedal in Bach simply because the desired effect can be created with the fingers, I find the pedal especially in the fugues blurs the separation of voices and is not pleasant, I find it also Romanticises Bach too much as well

I can see the point of using the pedal as a dynamic tool though, but I can't say really because I've not played any Bach yet that I has felt warranted that yet but I may

[drkilroy]

I never use pedal for baroque pieces. Actually I would prefer to play these on harpsichord or clavichord...

Best regards, Dr

[dblomd]

I don't believe in using pedal on any Baroque era pieces. It gives it that authentic sound. Here at college I have only heard of one Bach piece that a teach found acceptable for pedal. It was one of Bach chacones (sp?).

[keyboardclass]

Some harpsichords had a swell that opened the lid (which was invariably closed) to create a bigger sound when warranted.  Any baroque organ specialists care to chip in?

[ramseytheii]

I don't believe in using pedal on any Baroque era pieces. It gives it that authentic sound. Here at college I have only heard of one Bach piece that a teach found acceptable for pedal. It was one of Bach chacones (sp?).

Ah yes, playing those Bach suites on the piano without pedal gives that totally authentic feeling!

Walter Ramsey

[keyboardclass]

Ah yes, playing those Bach suites on the piano without pedal gives that totally authentic feeling!

Walter Ramsey

Right on!   

[lostinidlewonder]

Bach saw pedals on an organ But I know what you mean, the pedals of the modern pianoforte.

I would bet everything I owned (although I'm not a gambler! lol) that if Bach played on the modern piano he would have encouraged the use the pedals. Probably a more liberal use of the sustain compared to the rest though.

One only has to play his organ works on piano to find that if we do not use the middle pedal it is literally impossible for the pianist to hold a note unless they take of their shoes and uses their toes!!

I honestly cannot see him ever looking at them and say, Oh no no no don't use it, it ruins my music. His music can be played on all sorts of keyboards and different instruments and each of them breath different life to it but are the same, similar but different but apart of the same family. If you hear for example a Bach WTC performed by a choir would you recoil in horror and say "Oh it should be done on a keyboard you are losing the tradition of the music"? If you do I think that is highly pedantic.

[steviesteps]

Use the pedal if you want but there's much more to gain from doing everything with your fingers

[werq34ac]

Ah yes, playing those Bach suites on the piano without pedal gives that totally authentic feeling!

that was sarcasm right?


Personally, I feel that Bach loses most of its "authenticity" just by being played on a modern piano. I know it sounds a bit stupid, but since the pedal is available, why not use it to make it sound better?


However, I do believe that one should use pedal as little as possible and pretty much the only use I find for it in Bach is making impossible legatos (with the fingers) possible.
When I use the pedal in Bach it's in little dabs here and there just to keep from breaking the sound.

[richard_strauss]

If you check Glenn Gould's DVD playing the partitas you'd see him using the pedal. About the chaconne, the pedal is generally accepted because Bach wrote the piece for solo violin (partita in d minor) and the piano transcriptions played are by Brahms (study no 5 for the left hand) and Busoni. Both works aren't a mere transcription but a reinterpretation of Bach's work in the virtuoso romantic language.

[ramseytheii]

If you check Glenn Gould's DVD playing the partitas you'd see him using the pedal. About the chaconne, the pedal is generally accepted because Bach wrote the piece for solo violin (partita in d minor) and the piano transcriptions played are by Brahms (study no 5 for the left hand) and Busoni. Both works aren't a mere transcription but a reinterpretation of Bach's work in the virtuoso romantic language.

Although I don't really consider Glenn Gould an authority on Bach, I agree that it is always amusing to point out to people that he does use pedal.  You can also see him pedaling in his video of the Goldberg Variations.  Undoubtedly he played in a drier way than most pianists, but most pianists seem to believe he eschewed the pedal altogether.

Walter Ramsey

[pianowolfi]

Well, according to reliable historical sources J.S. Bach has played at least twice on a pianoforte by Gottfried Silbermann, and it is well known that in the late twenties of the 18th century Bach gave very detailed advice to Silbermann on how to improve his instruments. So he was certainly familiar with the pianoforte and also with that particular mechanism, invented by Silbermann, that lifts the dampers! The only difference: it wasn't a pedal back then, first it was a hand stop and later (in Mozart's times) a knee lever.

[ramseytheii]

Well, according to reliable historical sources J.S. Bach has played at least twice on a pianoforte by Gottfried Silbermann, and it is well known that in the late twenties of the 18th century Bach gave very detailed advice to Silbermann on how to improve his instruments. So he was certainly familiar with the pianoforte and also with that particular mechanism, invented by Silbermann, that lifts the dampers! The only difference: it wasn't a pedal back then, first it was a hand stop and later (in Mozart's times) a knee lever.

You are absolutely right about everything.  All the evidence overwhelmingly points to the fact that Bach's works do not require being presented on a harpsichord in order for the people to understand.

That's why these arguments are for me just moot.  Who has seriously listened to the great Bach recordings of such divergent artists as Gould, Fischer, Tureck, Nikolaeva, and said, "These sound terrible.  They can only be played on harpsichord."  For me there is no possibility for argument.  How can anyone seriously maintain that Bach's works can only be presented on one instrument in the face of such artistry?  These arguments are the province of prissy university students, not serious musicians.

Walter Ramsey