is that normal?

[drazh]

hi
when i am playing a memorized piece i dont think about fingering.they move automatically is that ok or abnormal?
thank you 

[edward]

It's called muscle memory, and it's quite normal.

[ionian_tinnear]

Not only is it normal, it's what we try to achieve to really 'know' a piece.  Once done, then we can concentrate almost exclusively on interpretation.  The Zen, become one with the piece! 

[scott13]

To really perform a piece well you need to not be thinking about notes, but about the connection you want to make to the audience through the piece. This level of interpretation rarely happens if you are concentrating solely on hitting correct notes.

However, muscle memory can fail you sometimes, so after i have a piece memorized hands together, i like to go back and re-learn and memorize hands separately again, this stops the hands becoming co-dependent  and means in the event you have a memory lapse in one part, the other hand should be able to continue by itself and give you time to regain the other hand's material. This technique has saved me twice from what would have been major memory slips in Bach Fugues, but because one hand was able to continue, i picked up the other hand in 2 beats and no significant damage was done to my interpretation either.

[liordavid]

What you are feeling is very normal. After practicing a piece for a while, it get engineered into our hands and fingers so we dont have to think about fingering as much

[semplice]

Muscle memory is very normal. not only by playing piano. (to tie one's shoes for example)
I think it's dangerous to think about......... it's possible to loose it.

Please don't pose such dangerous questions in future !!

[pianoman53]

You can't lose your muscle memory..!

The only thing to worry about, is to not relying completely on it. It works, because we use it in normal situations. If you're on a stage and in front on an audience, and are going to tie your shoes 10 times to show them how it's done, you'll probably start thinking abit on how to do it.

The same with piano pieces. When you're home, playing like you've done oh so many times before you don't have to think, almost at all. But if you're on a stage, and people are listening, you will start thinking, A Lot! Then, you're muscle memory will sort of get ruined, since you don't feel the same way like you always do.

So, what you feel is, as said, is normal, and a big part of playing piano (without it, it would probably be imposible to play anything longer than 3 minutes), but you have to Know the notes as well, in your head. If you don't, you might survive for some time, maybe even for a very long time, but you Will screw things up sooner or later.

So learn the notes as well!

[werq34ac]

MUSCLE MEMORY DOES NOT MEAN YOU KNOW THE PIECE.

This is an awful way to memorize your pieces. Not only should you have muscle memory, but auditory memory as well. You need to remember how the piece goes, hear it in your head. Also you need to remember how to produce the sound that you want to create. When you perform, you can't just let your hands do all the work. You need to listen to your own sound and consciously think about HOW you are playing these notes. Fingerings should be automatic yes, but this is NOT the only thing required for performance.

[danhuyle]

Pros and Cons of muscle memory

Pros -

you can play from memory
Great when combined with the knowledge of the music

Cons -
High level of nervousness when you perform
Hard to fix if you do something wrong
You'll find yourself playing the same piece a lot, then you play more times only to find that you're going to forget, then you play even more times.
9/10 You don't know the structure of the music
Unreliable
If you lose the fingering, the whole performance can fall apart. E.g. playing Bach and you slip a fingering, then it's hard to recover

I've experienced this before. I played the Prelude of Shostakovich Op87/2 and relying solely on muscle memory is a double edged sword.

One thing I can say is that I cannot memorize Chopin Fantasie Op49 with muscle memory. For me to memorize this, I have to know the structure, meaning the keys the piece modulates to and this piece is frequently changing keys. The muscle memory is combined with knowledge of keys and chord progressions throughout the piece. The more familiar you are with the structure of the piece, the easier it is to memorize. Same thing for Ballade in F minor Op52, which is the last thing I'll be learning after I can play 4 Scherzi, Fantasie, Ballade 1,2,3 fluently.

[pianowolfi]

There's actually no "pro and con" about muscle memory. It's absolutely necessary. But of course the other forms of memory are necessary as well.

[ramseytheii]

MUSCLE MEMORY DOES NOT MEAN YOU KNOW THE PIECE.

This is an awful way to memorize your pieces. Not only should you have muscle memory, but auditory memory as well. You need to remember how the piece goes, hear it in your head. Also you need to remember how to produce the sound that you want to create. When you perform, you can't just let your hands do all the work. You need to listen to your own sound and consciously think about HOW you are playing these notes. Fingerings should be automatic yes, but this is NOT the only thing required for performance.

To be even more specific, muscle memory is just one level of memory that we need to meet the artificial, but real, demands of playing a huge repertoire live in concert from memory.

We have muscle memory; auditory memory; intellectual memory (the theory and form behind the music we play); visual memory (the look of the score or even the look of our hands on the keyboard); and any other tactile memory (for instance the moldy smell of some scores has helped me visualize them exactly).

All of them have to be put to service in order to learn such a huge amount of repertoire that concert pianists are expected to learn.  Muscle memory indeed is the most unreliable, because for pianists conditions change constantly.  You can play on a slanted stage.  You can play on pianos with totally different actions - or even a different amount of keys.  When I play on a Bösendorfer, with the extra bass notes, it always throws me for a loop.  You can play in different halls with different acoustics, which require you to play at different speeds.  Sometimes you have to use more pedal, sometimes less, without any regard to how you practiced it.  In other words it is a constant variable.

Muscle memory is the most basal level.  We have to develop every other type of memory in order to meet the demands of concert performance.

Walter Ramsey

[werq34ac]

Thank you for clarifying my post. I was debating whether to include the other types of memory, but I felt lazy.

While some muscle memory is required, you still need to know what your muscles are doing.

I mean think about it, do you really want to muscle your way through a piece?

[meganquinn]

I think it is perfectly normal!