Bestway to explain time signature...

[jimbo320]

What would be a real good and understandable way to explain time signature to someone?

[nanabush]

Think of it as a fraction:

3/4 timing; imagine "three quarters", you have 3 quarter notes.

7/8 timing; "seven eighths", seven eighth notes.

You can also think of them as fractions of whole notes: seven eighths of a whole note, or 3 quarters of a whole note, but that's a bit too specific and might mix someone up lol.

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so the top number tells you [how many of] the bottom number which is [the type of note].

[bleicher]

That only works in countries where you call them quarter or eighth notes!

Here I think we just learn that the top number is how many, and the bottom number what type, and at first students have to remember that 4 is crotchet, 2 is minim and 8 is quaver, then later on you can explain that the number relates to how many would fit into a semibreve.

[keypeg]

You have three kinds of time signature (and then of course real music can go hog wild with exceptions and ambiguity). 

In simple time: 3/4, 2/2, 2/4, 3/8 etc. the top number tells us how many beats there are in a measure, and the bottom number tells us what kind of note equals a beat.  (Whether the 2,4,8 means quarters or quavers).

In compound time: 6/8, 12/8, 9/8 -where the top number is a multiple of 3, one beat = 3 pulses of the note value represented by the bottom number.  So 6/8 = 2 beats of 3 eighth notes + 3 eighth notes.

Of course time signatures actually reflect meter - a recurring underlying rhythm in the music that repeats measure after measure.  You might get 9/8 time where the music has a long and short beat of 4 + 5 pulses, which you'll feel in a steady kind of rhythm in the music.  But we start with some rules of thumb so we have a starting point.

[pianoman53]

I think it's easiest to count from the right:

3/4= You count each 4 (quarter) note, and you count it 3 times.

[tunneller]

I'm still confused about 2/4 and 4/4... If you'll excuse the exaggeration in "terminology" is this correct:

4/4: BANG tap tap tap; BANG tap tap tap;

2/4: BANG tap bang tap; BANG tap bang tap;

2/2: BANG tap; BANG tap; BANG tap;

Thanks, T

[keypeg]

I'm still confused about 2/4 and 4/4... If you'll excuse the exaggeration in "terminology" is this correct:

4/4: BANG tap tap tap; BANG tap tap tap;

2/4: BANG tap bang tap; BANG tap bang tap;

2/2: BANG tap; BANG tap; BANG tap;

Thanks, T

There is no difference between 2/4 and 2/2.  In both there are two beats in a measure (BANG tap).  Only in 2/4, the quarter note gets the beat, and in 2/2 the half note gets the beat.

4/4 BANG tap Bang tap;  BANG tap Bang tap;
4/8 BANG tap Bang tap;  BANG tap Bang tap; (eighth note gets the beat)
2/4  BANG tap; BANG tap
2/2  BANG tap; BANG tap (half note gets the beat: each bang or tap is a half note)

[perfect_pitch]

That only works in countries where you call them quarter or eighth notes!

Here I think we just learn that the top number is how many, and the bottom number what type, and at first students have to remember that 4 is crotchet, 2 is minim and 8 is quaver, then later on you can explain that the number relates to how many would fit into a semibreve.

Actually - I personally believe that it's better to educate them on the types of note lengths and their relationship to each other, BEFORE introducing time signatures. There's no point telling them that a time signature is THIS, if they don't correctly know what THIS is.

[bleicher]

Actually - I personally believe that it's better to educate them on the types of note lengths and their relationship to each other, BEFORE introducing time signatures. There's no point telling them that a time signature is THIS, if they don't correctly know what THIS is.

Yes, that makes sense.

[keypeg]

Actually - I personally believe that it's better to educate them on the types of note lengths and their relationship to each other, BEFORE introducing time signatures. There's no point telling them that a time signature is THIS, if they don't correctly know what THIS is.

I'd assume that before you tell someone that the measure has 4 quarter notes or 3 crotchets per bar, that the person would have learned what a quarter note or crotchet was. 

[bleicher]

Yes, but it wouldn't be Pianostreet if we didn't manage to turn something we all agree on into a blazing argument.

[tunneller]

There is no difference between 2/4 and 2/2.  In both there are two beats in a measure (BANG tap).  Only in 2/4, the quarter note gets the beat, and in 2/2 the half note gets the beat.

4/4 BANG tap Bang tap;  BANG tap Bang tap;
4/8 BANG tap Bang tap;  BANG tap Bang tap; (eighth note gets the beat)
2/4  BANG tap; BANG tap
2/2  BANG tap; BANG tap (half note gets the beat: each bang or tap is a half note)

Wow. This is mind-blowing. For way too long I have been thinking of these time signatures as fractions.

Ok, then if you want my opinion on

Bestway to explain time signature...

It would be to ignore the number on the bottom, only look at the number on the top. That is the number of beats. Divide each bar by the number of beats and find the notes in the bar which are beats. If it is two beats, flag as "strong, weak", if it is three flag as "strong, medium, weak", if it is four then "strong, weak, medium, weak". And whatever is the pattern for 5, etc.

The number at the bottom is just a checksum 

[perfect_pitch]

I'd assume that before you tell someone that the measure has 4 quarter notes or 3 crotchets per bar, that the person would have learned what a quarter note or crotchet was. 

Isn't that just what I said using different words???

[tunneller]

.

[keypeg]

Tunneler, I think you've got it.  I can also see how the fraction idea was confusing.  The idea is that you have a measure with x number of beats (2, 3, or 4 beats) and that also gives an underlying rhythm.   So the first question we ask ourselves is "How many beats are there?" = top number.  Then we ask "Which note value gets the beat?" = bottom number.  All the note values are proportional to each other so that two eighth notes last as long as one quarter note; two quarter notes last as long as one half note etc.  If you know the beats and what takes the beat, then everything else falls into place.

Eventually you'll want to tackle a different kind of time signature called "compound" because you run into those a lot.  It's the same kind of idea of a measure with x number of beats (2, 3 or 4 beats) but this time triplets get involved and the bottom number has a different role.  These time signatures appear as multiples of three:  6/8, 9/8, 12/8 (6, 9 and 12 are multiples of three).  Here our "beat" is a group of three:
6/8 (2 groups of 3 = 2 beats)
9/8 (3 groups of 3 = 3 beats)
12/8 (4 groups of 3= 4 beats).
3 what?  The bottom number tells you the "what".  In 6/8 time, 3 eighth notes (the "8") make one beat, so 6 eighth notes make 2 beats.  They work like triplets.

Most of the time, signatures that have 6, 9, or 12 on top are in compound time with this triplet feel.  There are clues like seeing dotted rests (one dotted quarter rest, instead of a quarter and eighth rest).