I have been playing the piano for 4 months, what do you think?

[javierchomer]

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This time I played the Musette from Bach in D major.

The jumps where a bit difficult but I got used to it. I still play it at a slow speed. But I always want to have everything fast. So I may have uploaded a bit earlier than I supposed to do it.


Please tell me your opinions.

[ethure]

I would suggest you learn to play without looking at your fingers.

The short 'big breath's at the jumps disturbed the listening a lot, why don't you just upload it after practising those several parts more? 

and it's also a little dull, maybe it's only that you were playing slowly. Hope you'll make it better after speeding up.

Other than those, it's good. You suprised me indeed, I didn't expect a four month learner could play like this.

[mcdiddy1]

Very good start for a beginner. You know your notes and rhythm well and you keep a good steady pulse.

Your next goals should be of course increasing the tempo, articulation and style.

When you play your staccato notes, try jumping out of the key and flicking it to give it more crisp articulation.

Check the tempo marking. It should be allegro right? Check the meteronome marking to see you are playing at a fast enough tempo.

Style-wise, you would want make a large difference in dynamics because of the Classical/ Baroque style this piece is written in. Try and find recordings of the piece to give you an idea of how it can be played.

Hope that helps.

[goldy54]

Hi Javier, Sounds like you are off to a great start1 Have you studied any other instruments? My guess would be yes... If so which instruments?

[javierchomer]

I would suggest you learn to play without looking at your fingers.

The short 'big breath's at the jumps disturbed the listening a lot, why don't you just upload it after practising those several parts more? 

and it's also a little dull, maybe it's only that you were playing slowly. Hope you'll make it better after speeding up.

Other than those, it's good. You suprised me indeed, I didn't expect a four month learner could play like this.

Thanks a lot for your comment. My problem is that I want to do everything fast. So I uploaded it too early. After I practice a bit more and I speed it up I will upload it again.

[javierchomer]

Very good start for a beginner. You know your notes and rhythm well and you keep a good steady pulse.

Your next goals should be of course increasing the tempo, articulation and style.

When you play your staccato notes, try jumping out of the key and flicking it to give it more crisp articulation.

Check the tempo marking. It should be allegro right? Check the meteronome marking to see you are playing at a fast enough tempo.

Style-wise, you would want make a large difference in dynamics because of the Classical/ Baroque style this piece is written in. Try and find recordings of the piece to give you an idea of how it can be played.

Hope that helps.

Thanks a lot for your advice. I practice a lot playing this song with the metronome. I already listened to the song a lot. But my teacher told me to increase speed slowly. I need more time to finish it.

[javierchomer]

Hi Javier, Sounds like you are off to a great start1 Have you studied any other instruments? My guess would be yes... If so which instruments?

This is the first time I play an instrument. The thing is that when I do something that I like I dedicate a lot to it.

[javierchomer]

Hi Javier, Sounds like you are off to a great start1 Have you studied any other instruments? My guess would be yes... If so which instruments?

Oh, I forgot to say, thanks a lot for your comment.

[deadpool]

Sounds good, sounds good, but i read in one of your videos description that you want to make a living out of playing piano?  well, thats a possible goal for a 5 yrd old, but wait, you are 33?  you have to have realistic expectations for your playing man, some very talented youngsters will be able to become professionals and play concertos by the time they are your age with some luck and tremendous effort, so you should be playing piano for the joy of it, not to try to achieve a impossible dream of making a living out of it. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, i just find it silly that people come up with this stuff so late in life.

[arctic_mama]

Pretty good!  Definitely spend some time working the transition measures - for me, rote repetition of those jumps speeds them up.  Though I confess that I do read music more while playing, many of the jumps and fingering in Bach require a lot of spotting (quickly looking down) for me to make cleanly, and my teacher told me such a thing was not a commendation against my playing.

I second working on putting some life into it.  It has a bit of a dullness/heaviness to it that can be helped just by adding some dynamics and thinking 'lively, cheerful' while playing.  Try to convey a message with you music - a feeling - instead of just going through the notes on rote, and I think it will make all the difference.  You did a lovely job for a beginner, keep working hard!

[ethure]

so you should be playing piano for the joy of it, not to try to achieve a impossible dream of making a living out of it. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, i just find it silly that people come up with this stuff so late in life.

you (deleted) to pour water onto other people's fire of hope.

I see he's done a marvelous job to play like this as a beginner who hasn't played any instrument before. He's shown quite appreciable dedication that I think weighs no less than the talent and age thing.

it may be extremely difficult(or simply a wonderful tour if he loves what he's doing), but how do you exactly know it's not possible?

I just find it silly that people snuff possiblity only because they think so based on their own knowledge and experience rather than the even itself.

[deadpool]

im talking based on history man, tell me 3 guys that started playing at at 30 and became concert pianist, and then if you can even come up with the names, the odds he is one of those lucky virtuosos is microscopical

[jadekirby]

awesome thats very good for that amount of time. if i had to say anything for future playing try to relax your wrists, shoulders and arms to develop your technique  other than that it is very very good 

[dave_clifford]

so you should be playing piano for the joy of it, not to try to achieve a impossible dream of making a living out of it

@javierchomer

I just want to say about music, so it may quite difficult for you to become a pianist at this age. Although, if you love music, you should keep playing it, not only for joy, but for interpreting the composer's mind as well. Music is full of mystery, and it is, uh, fantastic, unexplainable, if you can't become a pianist, nevermind, play piano at home and do a lot of research, understand the composer's feeling, sensing the flow of melody, and etc. Remember, music is not only a form of  entertaiment, but an essential part of our life.

*correct me if i have anything wrong *

[ethure]

im talking based on history man, tell me 3 guys that started playing at at 30 and became concert pianist, and then if you can even come up with the names, the odds he is one of those lucky virtuosos is microscopical

history is used to reflect and pioneer, not repeat and 'it was so in the past therefore] it must also be so this moment'

[javierchomer]

Sounds good, sounds good, but i read in one of your videos description that you want to make a living out of playing piano?  well, thats a possible goal for a 5 yrd old, but wait, you are 33?  you have to have realistic expectations for your playing man, some very talented youngsters will be able to become professionals and play concertos by the time they are your age with some luck and tremendous effort, so you should be playing piano for the joy of it, not to try to achieve a impossible dream of making a living out of it. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, i just find it silly that people come up with this stuff so late in life.

Thanks a lot for your advice. well you know we only live once. And there alternative ways to become a concert pianist.

[javierchomer]

Pretty good!  Definitely spend some time working the transition measures - for me, rote repetition of those jumps speeds them up.  Though I confess that I do read music more while playing, many of the jumps and fingering in Bach require a lot of spotting (quickly looking down) for me to make cleanly, and my teacher told me such a thing was not a commendation against my playing.

I second working on putting some life into it.  It has a bit of a dullness/heaviness to it that can be helped just by adding some dynamics and thinking 'lively, cheerful' while playing.  Try to convey a message with you music - a feeling - instead of just going through the notes on rote, and I think it will make all the difference.  You did a lovely job for a beginner, keep working hard!

Thanks a lot for your advice. I will do my best to improve it.

[javierchomer]

you WERE being a 'jerk' to pour water onto other people's fire of hope.

I see he's done a marvelous job to play like this as a beginner who hasn't played any instrument before. He's shown quite appreciable dedication that I think weighs no less than the talent and age thing.

it may be extremely difficult(or simply a wonderful tour if he loves what he's doing), but how do you exactly know it's not possible?

I just find it silly that people snuff possiblity only because they think so based on their own knowledge and experience rather than the even itself.

Thanks a lot for your comment. I find your words really insipiring.

[javierchomer]

im talking based on history man, tell me 3 guys that started playing at at 30 and became concert pianist, and then if you can even come up with the names, the odds he is one of those lucky virtuosos is microscopical

Well basically looking at boys that are 6 years old who can play music in just one or two years. It will took much less time to a grown up to learn it. The piano theory is really easy. The difficult part is getting your hands to do what your brain tells them to do. But with dedication I don´t find much difficult in it.

Sometimes like if somebody says oh I learn at the age of 6 years old. They think like he is kind of a pro pianist. And in the long run a lot of pianist. Just put more enphasis in playing when they are child than when they are grown ups. 

[javierchomer]

awesome thats very good for that amount of time. if i had to say anything for future playing try to relax your wrists, shoulders and arms to develop your technique  other than that it is very very good 

Thanks a lot for your advice.

[nyiregyhazi]

"you WERE being a 'jerk' to pour water onto other people's fire of hope."

All credit to him for what he's achieved so far, but there is virtually no hope whatsoever. It would take a jerk to tell a kid he'll almost certainly never be an astronaut, but a grown adult needs to live in the real world. That doesn't mean he should not be aiming high, but I'm afraid professional performance is a long way off indeed. We'd all like to win the lottery, but it's not as simple as buying a ticket every week.

There are many good things for an adult newbie, but there are also many things that need to be radically reformed for serious long term progress, never mind professional playing! At the moment the arms are locked rigid and not responding to what the hand is doing. Also, while it's good that the fingers are moving, the actions are too repressed and need be continued with much more confidence. At the moment we have a series of individual prods- not actions that connect the arm and body to the keyboard. I wish the guy all the best, but he needs to start by sorting out the basics in his technique before he starts looking up at the stars.

[keypeg]

The word was "concert" was never mentioned.  I am certain that people who start at that young an age as adults have gone on to perform in certain venues.  It is as impossible to know what a person cannot do as it is to know what they can do.  I suggest that any student who has goals of any kind go to his or her teacher and maybe musicians in person - not a forum where everyone will be guessing wildly and giving generalizations.

The first thing I'd want to know is whether this teacher knows the OP's aspirations, and whether these are private lessons.  In the case of 4 months, there isn't much to radically REform, because not much has been formed yet.  As a student, if I start a new instrument, the FIRST thing I would tell a teacher is that I am serious about it.  I would want that teacher to train me in the proper use of my body from day one.  This is a thing teacher's won't necessarily do with an adult since so many would quit, not wanting to work that way.  You don't just go by what you see without knowing what is behind it.

[nyiregyhazi]

"The word was "concert" was never mentioned.  I am certain that people who start at that young an age as adults have gone on to perform in certain venues.  It is as impossible to know what a person cannot do as it is to know what they can do.  I suggest that any student who has goals of any kind go to his or her teacher and maybe musicians in person - not a forum where everyone will be guessing wildly and giving generalizations."

Earning a living was mentioned. Not bad for four months by any means, but I'm afraid that it doesn't show any remarkable talent that will catapult him into the professional world. He needs to start with some realistic goals and think more about enjoying the progress he is making.

"The first thing I'd want to know is whether this teacher knows the OP's aspirations, and whether these are private lessons.  In the case of 4 months, there isn't much to radically REform, because not much has been formed yet."  


The first few months are astonishingly important. If you spend the first four months playing with a rigid arm, that's more than enough for it to be a well-formed habit. Not an impossible one to break, but it's not going to be breaking itself anytime soon, simply by having played more. It needs urgent attention.

[keypeg]

Regardless, the time to do something about it is now, and it starts by being informed.  Getting informed doesn't mean being told it's good, it's bad, it's advanced for that amount of time, it's hopeless, it's realistic, it's impossible.  You start with some concrete things so that you know what is up and what is down.  When that happens people also reform their goals.  Just as important, they reform their approaches.  When that reformed approach happens, maybe in the long run they won't plan to become a professional pianist along any venu.  But they might end up being a rather decent player.

A stiff arm or a fluent playing style don't just happen.  These are things that are taught and watched for.  OR a teacher may decide to give increasingly difficult pieces to give a feeling of advancing, and then stiffness and all kinds of things creep in.    The very first thing is to define your goals and ask how to get there, of the teacher.  Many adults just sort of "fall into" lessons and all kinds of things can happen.  The very first thing is to get informed, find out.  From being informed, the goals can change too.  Saying something is impossible will not make that happen.

I'm afraid I don't have time to organize my thoughts more.  This will have to do.

[nyiregyhazi]

A stiff arm or a fluent playing style don't just happen.  

A stiff arm is very much something that just happens. Countless students begin this way- whether they slump excessively at the shoulders or hold the arm stiffly over the keys without adequate release. In fact, it's very unusual to see a student who instinctively finds a state in which their arm can respond freely and comfortably to the actions of the hand. It's one of the most important things of all to fix and one of the most difficult habits to break.

[keypeg]

I think we're saying the same thing.  Playing doesn't just happen.  A student who has a start of good technique after half a year of lessons has probably had help developing it, and vice versa.  It is not something that you "have" like long arms or blond hair.  If someone needs long arms for something and he doesn't have them, there is nothing he can do about it.  But if he needs a skill, then there is something he can do about it.  Remember how we may think when we first come in.

[arctic_mama]

And while I agree the chances of earning a living as a concert pianist for ANY adult beginner is almost nil, earning a living through band gigging, accompaniment to choirs, or even as a piano teacher (after studying pedagogy in addition to pianistic skill advancement and normal theory studies) are quite within reach.

That is what I assumed the OP was talking about - a piano related career is a possibility, but it would be unlikely such a thing would be as a solo concert pianist.  That ain't the only job with the instrument, though!  They make less money and are less glamorous, but are infinitely more attainable

[nyiregyhazi]

I think we're saying the same thing.  Playing doesn't just happen. 

Sure, good technique doesn't just happen (or at least rather rarely). However a stiff arm is something that "just happens" left right and centre.

[ethure]

, but I'm afraid that it doesn't show any remarkable talent that will catapult him into the professional world.

talent is really only a tricking thing. it's about education. it's about sensing your intelligence and body, the degree of the sensiv can be surely trained and gained. the real problem is that the age adds difficulty into this kind of training, just like how he himself said, his brain couldn't control his hand quite as well as a child.

[nyiregyhazi]

talent is really only a tricking thing. it's about education. it's about sensing your intelligence and body, the degree of the sensiv can be surely trained and gained. the real problem is that the age adds difficulty into this kind of training, just like how he himself said, his brain couldn't control his hand quite as well as a child.

No, talent is talent. Talent is when people flourish without necessarily even being taught terribly well. Talent is what gives a head start and is totally separate from quality of education- although most successful pianists will have both. I'm afraid that is absent here and the honest truth is that it's an unremarkable start for someone who is putting many hours in. I hope he will receive the guidance he needs to build proper foundations, make serious progress and go on to play rather well. But there is no sign of the truly remarkable "talent" that might somehow allow him to work up to a professional standard. His best hope is to reach a standard that he can take great pleasure and pride in, but this isn't going to earn him any money.

[mcdiddy1]

No, talent is talent. Talent is when people flourish without necessarily even being taught terribly well. Talent is what gives a head start and is totally separate from quality of education- although most successful pianists will have both. I'm afraid that is absent here and the honest truth is that it's an unremarkable start for someone who is putting many hours in. I hope he will receive the guidance he needs to build proper foundations, make serious progress and go on to play rather well. But there is no sign of the truly remarkable "talent" that might somehow allow him to work up to a professional standard. His best hope is to reach a standard that he can take great pleasure and pride in, but this isn't going to earn him any money.

I agree with you about talent. I think there are more people just more naturally inclined toward having an innate fluidity and naturalness in their playing. I think that we all have varying degrees of potential when we are young but what activates it is if we are interested in music or not. Many concert pianist talk about being fasinatined with the sound of piano at the age of 2 and experimenting with sounds and playing simple melodies. I just wonder how much of their "talent" is the product of the opportunities and environment afforded them. I certainly don't think talent is black and white as you have it or you don't. I think multiple factors need to be in place to get the most of the potential in everyone.

[keypeg]

Would you teachers kindly step back and THINK!!! This is not the place to speculate on the talents of a beginner who has asked for opinions (and probably should NOT be doing so). There is enough confusion when we begin.  We don't know much yet, and we are also highly vulnerable to both misteaching and mispracticing because we don't know much yet.  At the same time, we have put ourselves out completely, made ourselves vulnerable.  The LASTthink anyone needs at this stage is that stupid talent-word.  That is the big thing that ties up adult beginners.  They are afraid to "not show talent" and then the teacher won't teach them, and so they become paralyzed.  You teachers know .... for crying out loud !!! .... that piano involves skill that is gradually gained, and the one thing you guys usually gripe about are the students who want to zip ahead and impress you instead of buckling down and doing the work.

I am not a teacher, but I do know some things about music teaching by now.  How is it that I am the only one who has asked the OP the kinds of questions I asked?  You guys know what kinds of things should be taught along which various avenues.  Why are only results being looked at?  Talent doesn't play a role at this point.  The foundations on all levels need to be taught.  that includes how to approach practicing and how to approach a piece.  What are the chances that this is happening in an optimum way?

And why is nobody referring the asker back to his teacher?  Especially, why are the teachers not doing so?

[nyiregyhazi]

"Would you teachers kindly step back and THINK!!! This is not the place to speculate on the talents of a beginner who has asked for opinions (and probably should NOT be doing so)."

I'm not speculating on a thing. I'm judging sincerely and honestly upon what I have seen and heard, as well as additional information that has been presented.

"There is enough confusion when we begin.  We don't know much yet, and we are also highly vulnerable to both misteaching and mispracticing because we don't know much yet.  At the same time, we have put ourselves out completely, made ourselves vulnerable.  The LASTthink anyone needs at this stage is that stupid talent-word."

Actually, it's exceedingly relevant when someone has the silly idea of professionalism when progressing unremarkably from what is already a severely improbable starting point. Unfortunately, he seems to think that putting many hours in is automatically going to lead to special progress. He does not have the kind of "talent" that guarantees success, or there would be a lot more to show for those hours. That is why he needs some urgent advice both about how to further his playing, and why he needs to appreciate the fact that he is not going to achieve anything remotely professional on his present path. However harsh that might sound, he needs to know this. It's hard enough to reach a high standard for the average person who started young and even this late beginning is not on track for what he is hoping for.

This is not about telling someone they're too untalented to improve. It's about him needing to realise that he does not have the "talent" to automatically translate practising hard into progressing quickly. If he wants to do well he has radical changes to make.

"That is the big thing that ties up adult beginners.  They are afraid to "not show talent" and then the teacher won't teach them, and so they become paralyzed.  You teachers know .... for crying out loud !!! .... that piano involves skill that is gradually gained, and the one thing you guys usually gripe about are the students who want to zip ahead and impress you instead of buckling down and doing the work."

Do you think I would casually have a go at someone for being untalented? The problem is that he is unrealistic aspirations. He needs to understand that he does not have the kind of magic talent to realise those and that he is not going to get at what he IS capable of without a radical rethink.  

[mcdiddy1]

Would you teachers kindly step back and THINK!!! This is not the place to speculate on the talents of a beginner who has asked for opinions (and probably should NOT be doing so). There is enough confusion when we begin.  We don't know much yet, and we are also highly vulnerable to both misteaching and mispracticing because we don't know much yet.  At the same time, we have put ourselves out completely, made ourselves vulnerable.  The LASTthink anyone needs at this stage is that stupid talent-word.  That is the big thing that ties up adult beginners.  They are afraid to "not show talent" and then the teacher won't teach them, and so they become paralyzed.  You teachers know .... for crying out loud !!! .... that piano involves skill that is gradually gained, and the one thing you guys usually gripe about are the students who want to zip ahead and impress you instead of buckling down and doing the work.

I am not a teacher, but I do know some things about music teaching by now.  How is it that I am the only one who has asked the OP the kinds of questions I asked?  You guys know what kinds of things should be taught along which various avenues.  Why are only results being looked at?  Talent doesn't play a role at this point.  The foundations on all levels need to be taught.  that includes how to approach practicing and how to approach a piece.  What are the chances that this is happening in an optimum way?

And why is nobody referring the asker back to his teacher?  Especially, why are the teachers not doing so?

I think the discussion just naturally turned toward talent. I think the term "talent"  personally is over used.  When we see a child performer playing  Fur Elise with great musicality and expression without training we say the child is "talented". In my opinion I see a child with potential being realized. I believe we all have potential to be great , just in varying degrees from multiple factors. I refrain from using the talent word to describe a student because it implies the student does not have to work and it is some mystical thing that some people have or don't. But children who start young do have a strengths and advantages that adults do not have and it wouldn't make sense to ignore that. Adults have the ability that most children often lack and thats the ability to balance multiple areas of though, analyze, and high level of discriminations. We often listen to child performers for their skills at imitation rather than the depth of their interpretation.

Keeping that in mind I am not particularly impressed by children who are deemed talented because having the facility is only half the battle of being well rounded.  As for this player in patroller he says he is self taught and for self-teaching he is not doing a bad job. Refering a student to a teacher who may be a poor teacher may hinder his progress more than help him. It seems like the original poster is just interested in some comments about how his progress is going in comarision with other adult beginners.

What you do in your childhood absolutely affects what you do in the future. An example having a background in piano really helps in understanding musical concepts in violin.  I do not think talent is something that should be dwelled or obsessed about but learning about how people learn music at different stages could potentially help the adult beginner see how they are same as children and also different.

On a sidenote- i think any teacher who refuses to teach a student based on what their determination of "talent" is not a teacher for the adult beginner. I think it is the student's job to try and learn the teacher philosophy on learning and teaching before signing up for lessons otherwise you end up with teachers who do not teach certain students to the best of their abilities.

[keypeg]

My concern is for the person involved reading the post on talent.  I agree with what you wrote.

[keypeg]

I think it is the student's job to try and learn the teacher philosophy on learning and teaching before signing up for lessons otherwise you end up with teachers who do not teach certain students to the best of their abilities.

I agree, but I would add that before doing this, the student has to learn what is involved so that the teacher's philosophy will make sense to him.  Additionally, he can convey his goals better.