Ridiculous Tempo Marking in Czerny

[JMichael]

Hi, I've been playing piano for about 5 years. I progressed rather quickly at first and now really don't know what I'm doing. I want to excel; I want a future in music; I want to be able to play, but I'm not happy with ANYTHING I do. Hence the reason why I gave my self the above title. I want to try to get better, and I want to be able to play correctly, but I don't know where to begin. There are problems with my sound all over, but I don't know how to fix it. I can HEAR the problems, but I can't change them.

Anyway, my teacher recently gave me excercises 1 & 3 of Czerny's School of Velocity. Now, before I've always approached technique with the "quality over speed" philosophy, and do pretty well, but this is the school of velocity, so it seems as if I am expeced of both quality and speed. That is okay... until I look at the extraordinarily tremendous pace of the speed in which the book says I should take these excercises. Minim (half note) = 108?? That means, playing 16th notes, 8 are crammed into one beat? That means approximately 15 notes per second? Whaaaaa? Now, someone tell how they approached the Czerny School of Velocity. Is the tempo marking crazy or is 15 notes/second the goal I should have in mind for these exercises? If so, what am I doing wrong as far as muscles, tendons, elbow plavement, etc that I need to fix to play this better. Maybe someone could just critique me on how I want to play Excercise One.

Some at least answer the minim=108 question and maybe give me what he or she would view to be a more reasonable tempo. Thanks.

[sharon_f]

There have been many disputes over 19th century tempos, especially those with metronome markings. Some scholars believe the metronomes at that time were faulty. Others believe that the modern piano with its heavier action render these markings obsolete, that what was playable on the piano of Czerny's day is just not possible today.

I wouldn't worry about the metronome markings in the School of Velocity. You are right, the most important thing is always the "quality" of the sound. Use the markings as guidelines only. Attempt to get them as fast as you can, but always with clarity and eveness.

[JMichael]

Well, I really appreciate the reply. I guess I will just stick with what I've always done, focus on quality. I think speed will come, and I will try to up the pace until I feel it is adequate, but there's no way I can play these excercises well going at a speed anything above minim=95. It's just not going to happen.... yet. Thanks.

[joeltr888]

Just consider it a speed limit.

[JMichael]

Ah, yes. No one follows the speed limit, makes perfect sense.

[janice]

Besides, many metronome markings and tempos are merely "suggestions" by the editor.  Different editors have different ideas.  This is true for many composers, not sure about Czerny.  But who cares? Right?  You are on the right track now, with aiming at quality vs. speed!

[pianojems]

DONT EVER SAY THAT YOU SUCK AT THE PIANO!!! It  is very demeaning to yourself, and having these feelings  will never let you get better. There is no such thing as sucky pianists(Except maybe that Bonny person with the Chopin Fantaisie-Impromptu  )You have to just consider yourself at a certain level of learning. Just like a baby that just learnt how to walk doesn't suck because its wobbly! Well I think that I brought my point across. As far as Czerny, take it up gradually. Speed is only good when playing correctly. Playing fast and wrong wont do anything to improve your playing!
Best Wishes

[JMichael]

You're right; I don't really suck, so I changed my name. Anyway, I completely agree. I never had it in my mind to just play it fast to play it fast. I wouldn't play it up to speed if I couldn't play it well. To me, it doesn't matter what I'm playing, if I can't play it well, then it's not good. No matter how hard it is technically. I was really just asking if the tempo marking, mini=180, is really a reasonable goal for this piece, because it really is a ridiculously fast speed. I don't really care about it anymore though, it's just a mindless exercise. Thank you all for your replies. I appreciate the advice.
-John

[pianojems]

By the way, I don't care for mindless excersises any more. It took me a while to realize that it works much better to just play  some great pieces or segments such as the Chopin Etudes as a learning tool. They are challenging, fun and very conducive to learning. It is better to pick a beautiful piece with a "technique" that you want to learn such as staccatto, legato, jumps, arpeggios, scales and etc. Don't be discouraged by the difficulty of these pieces. You can start by just learning segments or lines that pertain to what your studying, that way you will have a "bits" of experience playing those pieces.

[ignaceii]

I just had the same question on czerny posted.
velocity 20 vs 23. Completely ridiculous and inconsequent.
Have fun.

[becky8898]

Hi Jmichael: Czerney is a royal pain in the ? do your self a favor. Make a list of all the pieces you would eventually like to play.  Now note how fast you need to be able to play those pieces at. Now forget about those stupid tempos in czerny. Instead look at those pieces you would eventually like to play and see what you have to do at what speed. Thats it, who cares if you can play a 1/16 note scale hands together with the MM at 200 if you never have to play that fast.  Your playing for 5 years you said.  Well when do you want to be able to play them by.  Say 5 more years.  How fast do you play now,  how much progress will you need to make on a weekly basis . Be smart about this.  My teacher did this list thing with me when I was 10 . We worked it out what I needed to do and when. 

Ok next subject things sound wrong.  So first take your foot off the pedal and keep it off.  Listen to yourself play . The pedal can cover up more stuff.   Now listen can you hear things wrong, maybe your legato isnt as good as you thought, maybe your fingering doesnt work. Practice smart.  I am not even 13 and yet and I bet I heard that a million times from my teacher. Practice smart.  Ok still doesnt sound right.  Put your left hand behind your back. Play the right hand part , no left hand , no pedal and listen. Play a scale at what tempo does it break down.  With which finger, is it a turn of the hand.  Now do the same with the left.  Then put them back together does it work or do you hear a problem  . Keep  doing this.  Forget about  stupid czerny and his idiotic  mm markings.   

Now last thing.  so much of speed is mental, not physical.  Its why sometimes 2 octaves works great but 4 becomes a mess. Your mind is slipping , your concentration is breaking. 

Speed is something that everyone ,  can do, its only that the ability comes at different rates for different people.  KInd of like if your the tallest kid in the class in sixth grade. Doesnt have anything to do with how tall you will be when your 21. 

Keep up smart practicing. best of luck.

Cheers, Becky