John Cage 4'33

[rachmaninoff_forever]

For those who don't like Cage's 4'33, how do you feel about periods of silence within a piece of music? I can't think of any specific examples at the moment but I know I've heard music with long periods of silence (up to 30 seconds or so) that seemed to fit perfectly within the overall work.

WITHIN THE OVERALL WORK

And what the heck piece has a silence for 30 seconds?  That's long

[rachmaninoff_forever]

But 'mindless' is exactly the type of music Cage was into making.  Separating the artist from the work of art takes genius.

He says he wants to separate himself from his work but the piece is still called CAGE 4'33 so he's contradicting himself

Nobody ever said 'hmm I wonder who wrote 4'33'  EVERYONE knows who it is

He ain't no genius

[mjames]

For those who don't like Cage's 4'33, how do you feel about periods of silence within a piece of music? I can't think of any specific examples at the moment but I know I've heard music with long periods of silence (up to 30 seconds or so) that seemed to fit perfectly within the overall work.

The aflat minor chord in op. 61 is brilliant, but what makes it great isn't the chord itself but the context in which it's used in. Just because I like the intro doesn't mean I'd enjoy a 4:33min long piece of nothing but a flat minor chords and call it genius.  

[hardy_practice]

John Cage was not a genius.

That doesn't mean he didn't have the odd stroke of genius.  On youtube somwhere you should find a TV show appearance where a toaster accidentally goes on fire  

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I think 4'33 is of importance from a philosophical viewpoint; whether it is a piece of music is almost moot imo. It should be remembered that Cage was into aleatory music, and 4'33 might be the ultimate inversion of more "normal" ways of producing such music. Do look into Ligeti's Poeme Symphonique for 100 metronomes; I've always assumed it was a very funny satire on aleatory music.

[hardy_practice]

He says he wants to separate himself from his work but the piece is still called CAGE 4'33 so he's contradicting himself

Surey a rose would smell as sweet?  I doubt you know anything about is oeuvre.  The amount of illeducation in this tread beggars believe.

edit: that's just too wierd.  I was about to mention Ligeti and the metronomes!  Still, most lkely lost on the kids in this thread.

Of course then there's Varèse and his airpane engine! and don't get me started on the Futurists!

edit 2: Tell a lie, the airplane engine may have been George Antheil - Bad Boy of Music.

[themeandvariation]

"…and the sound of the freeway evokes a day at the beach…" (by a Cage devotee  who hasn't yet jumped ship).

So, Zen me up, Johnny.

[Derek]

Well one thing is for sure, John Cage invented new age piano music in 1948. Why didn't he continue writing this type of stuff instead of flying off the rails like a madman?

[hardy_practice]

The prepared piano works are especially sweet.

[nickc]

Great thread. I do think it is genius...

All people have a different perception of existence... and if you exist, then you should be humbled at that fact. Think of the infinite number of people who were never allowed to come into being. Out of the 7 billion people who live on this planet, how many never were? (maybe they are fortunate) And for all of us who are living in this existence, what control do we have? The older I become, the less I know. I didn't choose my birth and I can't choose my death. All I have is the choices that I make. John Cage has managed to express this in the simplest form... the human interpretation of time.

The piece is 4'33 seconds.... so what? Everything that happens in that 4'33 seconds is pure existential counterpoint. Everything in existence had to work together so that you, (the listener) can sit here and debate the nature of music, and the validity of this work.

All of existence is a composition. We are just a note... always modulating (changing), with no comprehension of the future. A B-flat doesn't know it's about to move to C!

John cage understood the nature of music.... everything is music. We are living inside a magnificent composition... where all musical forces (dissonance, rhythm, consonance, modulation etc) operate in the same physical and mathematical space that all other "laws" (physics, biology, mathematics etc)  exist in.

Love it!

Nicholas