Regarding Aiko Onishi's Book and her techniques

[eueueu91]

In the book Pianism by Aiko Onishi (a book I bought following Pianostreet's forum recommendation) the author mentions several forms of producing different tones and "colors", from colorless (just a vertical, even press of the key), to harmonious (a curved, sliding motion), singing and some others tones.

She says that in order to produce a singing tone one ought to "mold" the key while doing a curved motion, which means that the first joint should "go down on the key with accelerando using the ball of the finger similar to molding clay or hard bread dough".

She also mentions the while doing most of these tones (except when louder sounds are required) one should not touch the keybed, but rather only exert force only until the key reaches the tone spot (also called time spot, key spot or after-touch), relaxing the finger after that.

Though the book sounds theoretically reasoned, I've googled the autor and some of the terms she uses but found nothing, not even a single page about Ms. Onishi that isn't about her book, which makes me question the soundness of her techniques. I was hoping you could provide some advice and personal testimony regarding these techniques and whether it's worth spending one's piano time learning them.

Thank you

[ramseytheii]

In the book Pianism by Aiko Onishi (a book I bought following Pianostreet's forum recommendation) the author mentions several forms of producing different tones and "colors", from colorless (just a vertical, even press of the key), to harmonious (a curved, sliding motion), singing and some others tones.

She says that in order to produce a singing tone one ought to "mold" the key while doing a curved motion, which means that the first joint should "go down on the key with accelerando using the ball of the finger similar to molding clay or hard bread dough".

She also mentions the while doing most of these tones (except when louder sounds are required) one should not touch the keybed, but rather only exert force only until the key reaches the tone spot (also called time spot, key spot or after-touch), relaxing the finger after that.

Though the book sounds theoretically reasoned, I've googled the autor and some of the terms she uses but found nothing, not even a single page about Ms. Onishi that isn't about her book, which makes me question the soundness of her techniques. I was hoping you could provide some advice and personal testimony regarding these techniques and whether it's worth spending one's piano time learning them.

Thank you

In some ways these sound qualities exist more in the imagination than anything else (for me, a charismatic performer is one whose imagination is transmitted outside, instead of being stuck inside), but also remember they all depend on context.  I very much doubt, from hearing one note, if you could tell the technique a person used in pushing it down.

That said, you can rest assured that the technique of stroking the keys (what you describe as a curved, sliding motion) is well established in the history of keyboard technique.  It is so old, it surprises me when people think it is new.  In fact, many pianists have apparently never questioned, or never had a teacher that questioned, how the finger actually makes contact with the key.

A contemporary of Bach's described his way of sliding his finger over the key in order to maximize legato at the organ.  A contemporary of Beethoven describes his piano technique as "dusting the keys," clearly a reference to the stroking technique.  For me, it is a basic component of piano playing.  For a clear demonstration, you can look at any Gould video, especially the Goldberg Variations.

I am often surprised at how few people seem to know about it, but it is really no secret. 

About the other things, I am always wary when authors get too specific, but I have come to accept that certain things work for certain people.  In piano playing, I have honestly never thought of what joint of the finger does what.  Perhaps I am lucky, and authors like the one you mentioned are anguished about knowing exactly what is what. 

Also, we musn't make too big a deal out of common things, like this convoluted description: "one should not touch the keybed, but rather only exert force only until the key reaches the tone spot (also called time spot, key spot or after-touch), relaxing the finger after that."  The fact is you can't change the tone once you depress the key, so why would you keep exerting pressure?  It is just common sense.  I would be careful of applying overly elaborate physical descriptions to simple things like that, because it confuses the mind, and leads people to try and exert a control over things which should just be let go.

Just my opinion.  I obviously haven't read the book.

Walter Ramsey

[keyboardclass]

She sounds like a Matthay disciple (which is a good thing).  He called contacting the keybed keybedding and discouraged it.

[keyboardclass]

  In piano playing, I have honestly never thought of what joint of the finger does what.

When the nail joint initializes the movement it's called a carrezando touch - very different from initiating from the knuckle.

[nyiregyhazi]

Also, we musn't make too big a deal out of common things, like this convoluted description: "one should not touch the keybed, but rather only exert force only until the key reaches the tone spot (also called time spot, key spot or after-touch), relaxing the finger after that."  The fact is you can't change the tone once you depress the key, so why would you keep exerting pressure?  It is just common sense.

It might seem like common sense but I'm afraid that (like many commonly held beliefs) the idea that any degree of ongoing pressure serves no purpose is in error. It's based on applying extremely superficial logic without looking at the whole picture. Perhaps above all, it assumes that piano playing occurs in a single dimension. It doesn't- and this is where circular actions are so useful. They redirect momentum and energy into circular motion instead of sending it into impact. That's why a pole vaulter causes far less impact than a head on collision with a  lance in a jousting event.

Why do you think staccato and tenuto are harder than playing legato? The position you begin from when moving a key is hardly insignificant, to put it absurdly mildly. While I've played works like the Liszt's Sonata and Mephisto waltz, I am even now realising how badly I was affected by the myth that a finger is best off exerting zero pressure after sounding. I took this literally and suffered the consequences. The weakness it caused to my r.h. 5th finger is only just beginning to be overcome. Pressure that needs to be released is generally pressure that need never have occurred to begin with. Just because the small ongoing pressure that all good pianists employ most of the time is highly comfortable does not mean it doesn't exist. Perceiving how to make healthy contact with intent has actually drastically reduced my keybed pressures and muscular efforts, compared to when I intended to cease all pressure entirely. Such descriptions are an impossible pretence that is available to those posessing fine technique- not a means of acquiring one.

Most of this is Tobias Matthay's fault. I've given a detailed explanation here of how drastically oversimplified and ill-thought out his concept of keybedding was:

https://pianoscience.blogspot.com/2011/07/keybedding-to-follow-through-or-to-hold.html

While he identified a very real problem, his failure to adequately differentiate what is and what is not healthy caused equally great problems for many. Negative keybedding is caused by needless pressures from the arm. A small pressure from the hand itself (and I really do mean small!) is indispensable to technique. Sadly, many babies have been thrown out with the bath water, due to the supposed "common sense" of not needing to stabilise on the key between depressions.

[keyboardclass]

  There's always one isn't there.

[nyiregyhazi]

There's always one isn't there.

Thankyou for such a uniquely thought-provoking and witty ad hominem.

[stephenv]

Regarding the subject: Here's what Matthay said...quoting from his work:

#1 The more speed in the string the louder the resultant sound.  Only by making the KEY (and the String therefore) move quickly can you produce loudness.  There is no other way.
#2. The Piano Key is a leverage system, a machine, to enable you to get speed with the string, and to ensure dynamic control--of the exact speed (or tone) desired.
#3 Open your piano lid, so that you can watch the hammerheads.  Now put your finger upon a key, and notice when you depress the key its 3/8 of an inch, that the hammer head moves about five times that distance, and therefore exaggerates by five times, the speed with which you depress the key.
#4 Also notice that it falls back the instant it has reached the string and has set the same into vibration (or movement) --although you may be keeping the key depressed afterwards.  This is owing to the hopper device which allows the hammer to rebound from the string.  Without this device the hammers would be jammed against the string and all tone destroyed.
...he goes on to say that "good tone, ease of production and control of tone can only be obtained by gradually pressing the Key into Motion.  Only in this way can you obtain perfect control over tone, good "singing" tone and good quality of tone.  Bad tone, and lack of control over tone, arises when the Key is jerked down by a too suddenly applied impulse."

In his book Musical Interpretation, Matthay talks about the TIME SPOT for each note you play and being aware of this spot is essential in order to play musically and with beautiful sound. You, the pianist INTEND every note you play. that was his Credo.

[nyiregyhazi]

Regarding the subject: Here's what Matthay said...quoting from his work:

#1 The more speed in the string the louder the resultant sound.  Only by making the KEY (and the String therefore) move quickly can you produce loudness.  There is no other way.
#2. The Piano Key is a leverage system, a machine, to enable you to get speed with the string, and to ensure dynamic control--of the exact speed (or tone) desired.
#3 Open your piano lid, so that you can watch the hammerheads.  Now put your finger upon a key, and notice when you depress the key its 3/8 of an inch, that the hammer head moves about five times that distance, and therefore exaggerates by five times, the speed with which you depress the key.
#4 Also notice that it falls back the instant it has reached the string and has set the same into vibration (or movement) --although you may be keeping the key depressed afterwards.  This is owing to the hopper device which allows the hammer to rebound from the string.  Without this device the hammers would be jammed against the string and all tone destroyed.
...he goes on to say that "good tone, ease of production and control of tone can only be obtained by gradually pressing the Key into Motion.  Only in this way can you obtain perfect control over tone, good "singing" tone and good quality of tone.  Bad tone, and lack of control over tone, arises when the Key is jerked down by a too suddenly applied impulse."

In his book Musical Interpretation, Matthay talks about the TIME SPOT for each note you play and being aware of this spot is essential in order to play musically and with beautiful sound. You, the pianist INTEND every note you play. that was his Credo.

Certainly can't disagree with him on any of those points. That said, I think point 1 is a very risky one, when referred to separately from the key point about avoiding sudden impulse. When spoken of in isolation (as it so often is) thinking of moving the key "quick" is an over-simplification that often encourages the jab. I think it pays to put pacing of acceleration before any thought that the key needs to go "fast" to make a loud sound.

[keyboardclass]

Here's some pudding proof (I'm fortunate enough to have a manuscript of the book courtesy of the author - very well researched):

[stephenv]

My Mentor...Guy Maier's thought on the subj. of tone production (quoted from notes)  "...the best and most direct way to the problem of tone color is through the study of 'both' the percussive and non-percussive approaches to the piano.  Why should teachers harp on one or two pet ways of producing tone when any good pianist can demonstrate in two minutes that there is not one 'right' technical way to approach a phrase or composition, but a hundred?  Matthay, for instance puts stress on key contact, arm-weight and down-ness. Breithaupt on light arm, in and out movement with a minimum of finger articulation.  I scorn to mention some of the other so-called pedagogs whose contributions to technical advance have not been even a passive 'nil,' but in many cases a very active and serious deterrent to pianistic progress." 
.."basic tone production can be reduced to it's simple comprehenisve essentials--then having established these few basic technical principles, teachers and students can develop their own approach to variety and beauty of tone depending of course on the mental, musical and physical equipment of each individual."   

[jcmusic]

In his book Musical Interpretation, Matthay talks about the TIME SPOT for each note you play and being aware of this spot is essential in order to play musically and with beautiful sound. You, the pianist INTEND every note you play. that was his Credo.
[/quote]

Sounds like my piano teacher (so many years ago now!)  He used to put his hand on the strings, and have me focus like mad on the attack (he called "the hit")  Removing the tone took attention away from it.  He used to say, correctly, that focusing on that one instant improved both tone and rhythm.  You intended like mad that exact moment of the hit.

Woops!  Don't know how to attribute a quote to a prior poster.  Sorry.

Thanks,

John

[stephenv]

Hey John...

thanks for that info...what a novel way to demonstrate the "time" spot..  I try my best to be aware of it...If you listen to some of Matthay's pupils...esp. Dame Myra Hess...you'll get a good idea of how that can be...especially listen to the "endings" of her phraese..the notes...and the "beginnings".   This "attention" seems evident especially at those time..

When Dame Myra repeated chords the evidence is there also.....this came up in one of the latter Beethoven Sonatas...
the "control" of tone and dynamics is incredible...so she seems to have taken Matthay's admonitions seriously and used them artistically....