Oh brother - a musical talent going to waste?

[aintgotnorhythm]

My brother was the "musical" one in our family. He played piano beautifully (and still does, though his repertoire hasn't changed since childhood) and was a regular in the strings section of the regional youth orchestra.

Years later he told me that he hated his entire musical experience, he just did it for our parents who never had the opportunity. He still feels resentful that he was pushed to attend lessons and follow the usual progression of music exams.

Now he has a daughter aged 11 who plays piano, guitar and saxophone. She clearly (at least to me) has a special gift for music. With limited tuition she is often singled out at school to do recitals (usually her own piano or guitar arrangement of a pop song) or solos in the senior brass band (though not yet actually owning her own saxophone, she has the use of a school saxophone in term time only).

I guess he is reacting against his own experience but my brother is opposed to any putting any kind of pressure on my niece or encouraging a disciplined approach to music. I feel she should move immediately to a specialist musical school or at minimum be getting led through a much more formal musical education.

What can I say to my brother? I want to say something like "you are failing in your duty as a parent if you do not send your daughter to a music school right away" but I'm not sure this would go down too well. I'm also not sure anyway what the best approach is for my niece. My own kids have gone through a normal school with a strong emphasis on music but I haven't seen anyone there that seems to have such a natural gift.

[m1469]

I honestly don't know.  My feelings about these things have been extremely dynamic throughout the years, especially in the past 10, and even more especially in the last 3.  

For most of my adult life so far, I would have said "yes, send her away!!" but I don't necessarily think that anymore.  And that was based on my personal view about my experience growing up without something like that in my life, as well as the mental states I've been hanging out in for years since then.  But, for a few years now my life has been changing so much, especially inwardly, that my outlook on my past has been changing, too.  I would say that if she seems to be doing OK in her life and is generally fairly happy (given some normal pre-teen type stuff), to just make sure she's getting enough experience and training in order to keep some future options open.  But, if she's really struggling in life, obviously something needs to be done anyway, and more music could really be the thing she needs.  Ultimately, it's about her.

How I feel right now is that I wouldn't want to have missed the last few years of my life, meeting and working with my teachers in this time - that's where my path has led and I am very grateful.  So, it's tough to say!  What I can say for sure is that I am generally a MUCH healthier person with rather intense pianistic and musical experiences in my life.

[ted]

Has anybody asked your niece what she herself wants to do ? Does she enjoy her music and her abilities ? So often we see a poultice of serious grown-ups deciding what "must be done" with a young talent without the slightest regard for the kid's happiness.Why not just discuss it with her ? Present all the options without imposing the wishes of adults on her and accept her decision.  

I feel strongly about this particular situation because I was pushed and forced in music. It was why I stopped playing altogether at ten. Fortunately, even as a kid nobody could ever tell me what to do, and I just weathered the almighty rows and recriminations. I returned to piano music three years later in a big way, but when I was good and ready and on my own terms and no one else's.

Whatever happens please do not ignore the wishes and feelings of the girl herself, or treat her as if she had no brains concerning her own preferences. 

[m1469]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, Ted, but you seem to have also been functioning just fine with your decision and that's what matters.  Yes, ask her, but it IS a parent's "job" to be watching over their child and to make decisions on their behalf even when the child either doesn't know what they want or thinks they know what's right for them but actually don't.  In many cases, even the average citizen regrets having quit lessons or is thankful a parent made them stick with it when they themselves didn't want to.  I do feel it's worth hefty consideration, yes ask the child but keep in touch with how an individual is responding, and keep in mind that it's not necessarily a decision that is only made once and for all.  Stay in touch with it throughout her growing up!

[ted]

Yes, ask her, but it IS a parent's "job" to be watching over their child and to make decisions on their behalf even when the child either doesn't know what they want or thinks they know what's right for them but actually don't.

Fair enough I suppose, in important life situations outside music. Music and art is just about enjoyment though isn't it, in the end ? "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". Isn't that all there is to it? It is for me but in music I am by choice probably a happy pig rather than a wretched Socrates. Whatever the little girl does or does not achieve in music, I hope she is led to enjoy her talent and is not taught to regard it as a burden.

[m1469]

Music and art is just about enjoyment though isn't it, in the end ?

I'm not sure because that means very different things to different people.  For me it's something that has not been on the surface but deeply embedded within me and has been problematic for me if I am not pursuing it.  But, these past few years, despite my gratitude for the opportunity to be studying and the fact that I wouldn't want to miss it, have also been riddled with growing pains and pushing many parts of who I am past my comfort zone.  Pushing oneself past one's comfort zone is not always fun and enjoyable so if my decision on whether or not I should keep going were just a matter of whether I felt happy go lucky about it all the time, that would be tricky!

Whatever the little girl does or does not achieve in music, I hope she is led to enjoy her talent and is not taught to regard it as a burden.

I agree, either way.  It can be a huge burden to not follow it, too!  Which is why it really does matter how these decisions are made.  Again, it is very different for different people - my brother could be a kind of freak singer, he could probably have been a pianist (in terms of potential), and has enjoyed playing the guitar ... yet, he never felt compelled to follow that at all and is happily married with a career in nursing and a newborn little girl in their lives.  As a side note, he also was extremely athletic growing up and received a full ride scholarship in football to go to University, which he began but didn't finish.  These things just didn't fundamentally call to him.  He's got potentials but they don't eat at him, and there's no reason as far as I can see, to try to interrupt his life just because in an isolated way I see a potential talent in something.

[fleetfingers]

I think it's good and fine if young people want to have fun with music and don't have any serious goals, but sometimes they imagine that they are better than they really are. Then, when they notice there is someone else with a more developed talent, it is disappointing to them. Not necessarily because they are jealous, but because they see what could have been possible for them. They will have wished that they'd had more discipline and better training.

It's tough, because if you push too hard as a parent, they may end up resenting it; but, if you don't push, they may end up resenting that.

I have a son who asked for a violin when he was six. At first, I did what my parents did - followed a hands-off approach and let him play what he wanted, when he wanted. Later, I decided that since he had an interest and a decent level of talent, it was my job as a parent to push him, so I pushed. Not in a crazy, homeschooled, 5-hours-a-day kind of way...I mean that I made him practice everyday for 30 minutes. And I made him practice what he was supposed to practice. Well, after a while, he started to really complain and whine about it. I was tired of the battles, so I said fine. I stopped making him practice and gave him a break for about 2 months (I needed a break, too ). He had missed playing and started to practice on his own again. He likes fiddle tunes. I didn't push - just let him make music. I was trying to figure out what to do in the long run. Then, he started talking to me about everything he wanted to do with the violin - he had some pretty lofty goals. I told him that if he wanted those things, it was going to take a lot of work. He would have to do what his teacher asked of him and practice everyday. He agreed, so we're back at it. Weekly lessons and practice every morning at 6:30. His new teacher lets him choose his pieces, so I'm hoping that we'll have a better balance of discipline and enjoyment this time around.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that it depends on what the child's interests and goals are. If it's something your niece wants to become accomplished at, I think that her parents will need to take some initiative to help her acheive her goals. But, so many kids' parents make them take lessons, and then they never touch a piano in adulthood. Those kids shouldn't be pushed to learn beyond the basics. As a parent, my idea is to expose my children to lots of things, see which ones capture their passionate interest, and then help them to develop it. Harder to do in practice than in theory, but I think it's a good theory anyway.

[aintgotnorhythm]

Thanks to m1469, ted and fleetfingers for your suggestions. Lots of thoughtful ideas and I realise I need to be more open-minded about this.