Trained Piano Monkeys

[rph108]

And quoting the dictionary is a bit pointless, there is no definition of art, just like there isn't a definition of humor.

There are many definitions of art, they are just not entirely adequate. I believe the definitions of art and love are somewhat similar in their inadequate definitions. Humor I believe can be defined quite easily if applied more generally. It is the quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness. And yes I got that from the dictionary. . The definition does not apply to specific personalities(that would take more specialized defining), but works quite well when trying to describe what humor is in general.

For art, it has an element of mystery to it, which makes it impossible to describe entirely adequately. I believe it can be described to a certain extent though. I was only using the dictionary definitions of art to make the point that art can be anything. It can be for pleasure, to make a political point, to be funny, it can be pretty much whatever you want. So the art will always be there, no matter how many times it is played.

[Daevren]

"It is the quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness. And yes I got that from the dictionary."

Thats not a definition of what humor is.

[liszmaninopin]

This era needs more piano-composers.

There are hundreds, I'm sure.  What we need is not more composers, but more publicity for the composers that are out there writing music as we speak.  Unfortunately, just about every one is very obscure.

[bernhard]

There are hundreds, I'm sure.  What we need is not more composers, but more publicity for the composers that are out there writing music as we speak.  Unfortunately, just about every one is very obscure.

In the very early stages of this project, the editors contacted the director of a leading American Composer’s organisation. He wanted to know how many entries we hoped to include. We said that, optimistically, there would be 600, form all around the world. “But that’s absurd!” he replied. “Why, there are 20 000 composers in the United States alone.”

(from the Editor’s Foreword in “Contemporary Composers” – Morton & Collins, eds.)

[rph108]

Ok. So you have no objections with the point I'm trying to make? Good.

[Spatula]

I am a 100% authentic piano monkey.

[Tash]

hey ahmedito, can i ask what type of response you were expecting to get from this thread?cos everyone seems to be taking it rather well!

[ahmedito]

Exactly what I got... some people think Im a jackass, some people liked the thread for the wrong reasons (I got some mails and messages praising the thread because it attacks the precocious pianists here, not that its supposed to do that), a side discussion, people who found the whole monkey thing funny... I dont really know, I dont even remember what state of mind I was in when I started it... in retrospect its a bit ridiculous, dont you think? I think Ill call the Dutch thread hijacking team and have them take over.

[Max]

There are hundreds, I'm sure.  What we need is not more composers, but more publicity for the composers that are out there writing music as we speak.  Unfortunately, just about every one is very obscure.

Though the number of recognisable ones probably is less than 10. (I can only name 6-7)

[Rob47]

(I got some mails and messages praising the thread because it attacks the precocious pianists here, not that its supposed to do that

What sort of a person would send u an email praising it for attacking precocious pianists?  How do they know who's precocious? Did they mean pretentious? pedantic? there's nothing wrong with a precocious pianist, and I think it is used incorrectly here. I suppose early development of piano skills could make a child precocious.  But why would someone praise a thread because it attacks children??

your friend
Rob

[Spatula]

By the way, where did that Matt Black kid run off to?  I think he was the one that wanted to make a "complete piano bible" or something like that.

[allthumbs]

Greetings

For the record. I graduated from composition in the bachelors, not from piano. But I played the piano well enough to do my masters in performance and not in composition (basically I gave up on taking composition classes, most master classes Ive had recommend teaching yourself eventually through reading and analysis and not through classes with a teacher--once you get to a certain level). Im in a compositional slump, because Ive found how extremely EASY it is to compose stuff in styles that are so extremely overdone by now. I got to a point where everything that I wrote sounded to me as a mediocre copy of someone elses greatness. So, right now Im concentrating on the piano and doing a lot of analysis of contemporary works (and of such greats as Berg, Varessese and John Cage).

Ah, just as I suspected, another elitist musical snob, spouting drivel. Who elected you Queen as to what others may or may not enjoy in piano music or composers? Maybe everyone who makes a comment does not have your experience and knowledge that you have in music (if what you say above is true?), although it is clear, you have much to learn in diplomacy and good manners.

Instead of commenting on others apparent lack of taste piano music in this thread, why don't you introduce piano pieces and composers that you find interesting? But in my humble experience, it is easier to simply criticize than provide something constructive.


Cheers

[pianonut]

i admit it.  i am a piano-monkey.  i like scarlatti, mozart, beethoven.  i listen to the same music over and over (because it's peaceful and makes me relaxed) and generally am obsessive about notes being right.  trying to make sense of twentieth century music makes me feel like i'm hammering nails.

i also eat a lot of bananas.  they really help the reflexes.  (seriously) potassium is really good for you!

and, if you practice your stuff for six months (like a good monkey) instead of a couple of weeks, you feel like you have really worked your monkey brain.  monkeys are known for being somewhat hyperactive.  did you know that some of the best pianists are also hyperactive.  constantly trying to figure out new and better fingerings, techniques, obsessing about things and scratching their heads a lot.

don't be ashamed if you are a monkey.  it's ok.  you probably like being on stage.  that's a good thing!  you may not play like martha argerich or somebody like that, but you have good stage presence and can humor the audience if you make a mistake.  a lot of monkeys are also amateur composers.  take for instance i've taken bach preludes and fugues and used the same notes but in different ranges.  they sound absolutely wild.  (one note low and the next high, or right hand and left exchanged).  you can take music and really twist it.  ok.  it might sound contemporary.  it's not that i don't like contemporary.  actually i've composed quite a bit of contemporary things.  one was prelude-n-jazz.  it was about a computer just functioning fine, and then at tax time it breaks down (the music does too).

[fred smalls]

I like monkeys.
And who cares about "piano monkeys" anyway.  It's just personal opinion.
I think I might be one, the inner monkey inside is coming out.  Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Mozart, Beethoven are definately the only composers I care about. Wait, except the other bagillion!
I don't even get this thread or what I'm saying.  I've been on my computer tooo long today.
I feel like I need a banana and some chopin etudes. 

Peace
Fred

[tds]

in early 22nd century, a group of scientists discover that moneys with a long, fat tail are more musical than the shorter, slimmer ones. they also detect the correlation between active tails and possible pianissism and virtuosity.

............"google for bananahs"..... being the newest technology that can translate money's language into english! . as of today, july 14, 2110, the two most frequently said remarks spitted in and out amongst monkeys have been: " how long is yours?" and "bmueahhh , mine is biiiiggger!" yet, the one that has received the most vote from piano forum, as follows: "well, yeah, but mine is really hard and it stays ups longer!

.....scientists doubt that google has sympathetically understood what is being written. nevertheless, google, being google, reports what has been informed and decoded.....( continues )

tee dee es

[Siberian Husky]

Trained piano monkeys! That's what you all are. There are less than 10 people here who do not fit that description  (by what Ive seen you write here, for all I know you could be musical plumbers or zoo keepers or whatever).

The rest of you are trained piano monkeys. You churn out the same repertoire day in and day out. You think your five beloved composers are the only music possible and fail to see anything beyond that. You can't judge on your own what good music is and simply think that those same five composers are gods who never did wrong and everything else is not as good. You wouldn't know good music if it bit you in the ass. You focus on playing all the notes, and when talking of interpretation you make such superficial and shallow questions. Its almost as if you're purposely trying to avoid doing anything new, heartfelt or generous.

Im sure I could train monkeys to play the piano better, and evenif not, why would I want to do that? I've got you guys.

If you're offended, think: Am I specifically refering to you? If you think so, then maybe the shoe fits too well.

this does nothing bus discourage beginners...
they only know a few composers...and cant put in that MUSICALITY just yet because they are still learning basic technical essentials...

if your angry...its okay..theres no need to be angry..just remember...















God still loves your ugly ass...dont ever f*&$#@ question that

[ahmedito]

wow!

who bounced this old thing back up?

now that I look at it, I seem to remember I was a bit grumpy that whole week...


 

[Dazzer]

i'm a bit grumpy this week myself.

ps:then again i'm always grumpy... what else is new
pps: check siggy.

[pianomann1984]

I think the same as you for the most part. Listen to Steve Reich, Arvo Part and Heinrich Gorecki. Not all of the modern music world is about trying to be as avant garde and complicated as possible.

This is hardly contemporary..much of their music is now at least 40 years old!

Also...just how does one avoid becoming a trained piano monkey???  It's not a fate that I particularly wish to arrive at.

[allthumbs]

Greetings

wow!

who bounced this old thing back up?

now that I look at it, I seem to remember I was a bit grumpy that whole week...


 

See, things one says can come back to haunt you. hehe 


Cheers

[Glyptodont]

I tried posting a question about Alexander Tcherpnin a week ago and only got one reply.  Fortunately, that respondent knew the composer pretty well and so I felt the question I posted was worthwhile.

I suspect many on the board really don't know anything about Alexander Tcherpnin.  If they did, probably a few more might have commented.

Once and a while, we see a post asking about a composer or a piece that I have never heard of.  Such posts get few replies if any.  The well is dry.  People can't answer what they don't know.  The same goes for a question about a very obscure brand or model of piano.  No one is trying to "shun" the questioner -- they just don't know what to say.

Perhaps pianists -- both amateur and professional -- are too locked in to the "standard repertory."   Rach, Bach, Brahms, Chopin, Beethoven, Schumann, Debussy, Ravel . . .  Couperin, Scarlotti?  One struggles to come up with more "superstars" of today's repertory. 

I learned and played a wonderful piece a couple of months ago.  It was an arrangement of a song from Peter Warlock's Capriole Suite.  It was just precious.  It is published by one of the major publishers in England.

There are things like this that are worth one's attention.  Alas, it is hard to get a discussion going on this board about such pieces because they are rather obscure. Rather few of us are ready to discuss them.  Or even know about them! 

Interesting thread ! ! !   

[pianomann1984]

I don't know much about tcherpnin, but I don't like what I have studied by him, so I didn't look very much further. The propblem is, as well as a few very good pieces out there (Stevenson's "Fantasie on Britten's Peter Grimes" is incredible), there is also an awful lot of rubbish.  The obscure stuff that is good will show itself in time.

[Dazzer]

tcherprin was a piano monkey?