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Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12 (Read 5957 times)

Offline danhuyle

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Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
« on: September 27, 2011, 10:23:19 PM »


Are Chopin Etudes all about how fast one can play? This is the fastest I can play the Revolutionary Etude. It's a few seconds slower than Richter and Yundi Li.

Should the focus be on the music or the speed?

Perfection itself is imperfection.

Currently practicing
Albeniz Triana
Scriabin Fantaisie Op28
Scriabin All Etudes Op8

piano sheet music of Etude


Offline smoothsound

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 01:02:08 AM »
Hey Dan. I think a chopin etude should be originally about mastering the technique that Chopin is trying to teach you and after that about making it as artistically pleasing as possible . To me it seems you have accomplished the first and worrying about speed isn't that important anymore.  However, there was a total lack of dynamics. The little crescendos and diminuendos . The rise and fall of the passion as the song is played.  I didn't see that in your playing. 

 Keep up the good work and keep posting. I look forward to seeing you bring this piece to the next higher level.

Mitch



Offline pianoman53

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 01:27:04 PM »
I'm sorry, again, but if you have to ask if you should focus on technique or music, then you just don't get it...
And the fact that you think the time actually matters, is also a signt that you don't really get it.

Music always comes first. And there is almost no trace of music in this. But not only that, the technique doesn't show either. You have full pedal all the way through, so there is no way none of us can hear the left hand. So basically, you could have played the wrong note 9 out of 10 times, and I wouldn't hear the difference.

And speed isn't the thing. I don't know how fast you play it, but because of your pedal and that it's not even, it sounds quite slow. 


On op 10/4, Richter plays it like quarter=210. I have a friend who can play it that fast too, but it's too uneven, so it sounds like 170, which isn't even close.

Do you have a teacher at the moment? If you do, listen do him. If he says "No this is too difficult", then it is. teachers aren't some mean creature created to make you feel worthless, and that you can't do anything. They are there to help you develop. But since you don't listen to any of your teachers, you don't develop half as good as if you would.


I'm sorry for the harsh words, but it's the same thing in every post you make. You say that you play it fast, almost as fast as Richter, then you don't even think about the music. And then when we tell you to, you say something like "but pros never play the wrong note, and that's what make them into pros".

Offline danhuyle

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 11:08:11 AM »
Do I have a teacher at the moment? No.

I don't know about you, I found that a lot of stuff I actually do want to play, I can learn those on my own without a teacher.

If I was to go to a teacher, it's to develop certain skills and one of it is to play fast without losing clarity. If it's to learn a piece it's not worth it if you know what I mean.   
Perfection itself is imperfection.

Currently practicing
Albeniz Triana
Scriabin Fantaisie Op28
Scriabin All Etudes Op8

Offline pianoman53

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 09:00:31 PM »
ok, whatever...

Offline lelle

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 12:38:58 AM »

Should the focus be on the music or the speed?


Music first, speed later. I think you would have use of a teacher to help you, especially with the musical aspects :)

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 09:14:43 PM »
Don't worry about speed, you have it.  But it's not musical. You're just banging the hell out of the piano and that's it :( It sounds and looks brutal.

(I wish I could play it that fast, but "unfortunately" my musical feeling gets into the way ;D )

Offline pianoman53

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #7 on: October 01, 2011, 06:35:46 AM »
And just one more question? What is up with the super dramatic motions on the last chords? It doesn't really fit, and it looks more childish than dramatic...

Offline jaggens

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 09:13:46 AM »
Hi,

You play it technically well.
But what is the point for me to listen to such a performance?
For you it can have a certain reason and meaningful point, but I would not listen to it twice.

I do not think Richter and Yundi concentrate on fulfilling the tempo measurement.
So you have all equipment to play. Now you should think why do you play the piano, what do you feel and what do you express.

GL
Jaak



Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #9 on: October 04, 2011, 07:52:01 PM »
I think this need to be 12 metronome marks faster.

Walter Ramsey



Offline pianoplayjl

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #10 on: October 16, 2011, 11:41:26 AM »
I think this need to be 12 metronome marks faster.






do you mean 12 marks SLOWER?
Funny? How? How am I funny?

Offline scott13

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 11:40:09 AM »
Chopin did not write any pedal markings, so why do you feel the need to hold the pedal down for the entire piece?

Frankly this recording is terrible. No musicality, no dynamics, no emotion, no feeling, no clarity.

But then with your attitude of "i can almost play as fast as" i'm not expecting any better. Speed is nothing compared to musicality. I would much rather here a slower version which had good clear articulation, lovely phrasing, excellent clarity and stirring emotion, that listen to another second of you banging through trying to show that you can play notes fast.

Cool, you can push keys down quickly, yet you miss the entire point of music itself.  Music is about so much more than the notes.

Offline pianoman53

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #12 on: October 17, 2011, 12:54:21 PM »
Music is about so much more than the notes.
In this case, it's also about doing very big movements that doesn't make any sense.

Offline cjp_piano

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #13 on: October 17, 2011, 03:53:19 PM »
Etudes are for refining technique.

Good technique is being able to express the music without being limited physically.   

So, of course it doesn't matter if you can play it fast, the whole point is to be musical.
Good technique does NOT mean being able to play fast. It bothers me when people say "Wow, he has really good technique, looks how fast he can play scales!" Who cares if you can play fast scales. Scales are not technique. Technique is your body's ability to express the music!

Offline danhuyle

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #14 on: October 18, 2011, 06:18:16 AM »
Does anyone know any piece where you MUST play fast and the only way the interpretation works is if you play fast? Curious that's all.

What can I say? I was never taught interpretation.

Perfection itself is imperfection.

Currently practicing
Albeniz Triana
Scriabin Fantaisie Op28
Scriabin All Etudes Op8

Offline pianoman53

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #15 on: October 18, 2011, 07:20:23 AM »
Ok, why bother.

Offline pianoplayjl

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #16 on: October 18, 2011, 08:52:07 AM »
Dan's playing obviously needs some criticism and feedback, but stop being too harsh on Dan, Pianoman53. You're obviously trying to demoralize him.
Funny? How? How am I funny?

Offline bamba

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #17 on: October 18, 2011, 02:27:14 PM »
Hi Dan -
It is impressive that you learned to play like this without a teacher! Your technique overall seems pretty good considering you're learning on your own, a fact I'm sure triggered some envy here (hence some of the harsh comments.) On the other hand, you do need to give a lot more attention to the interpertation and musicality as was suggested here, and realize that technique is only the means and not the target.

Another thing- of course speed matters...
Play this etude at 60bpm and you will get a completely different piece.
Speed is also means for reaching the desired interpertation/expression in a piece.
But again, it should not be the goal...

Best of luck to you.
-bamba

Offline kellyc

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #18 on: October 19, 2011, 03:52:16 AM »
Hi Dan: I know this goes against the grain, but sometimes you have to just have to forget about the notes and practice where other things become more important.  Also , as hard as it is, Keep your foot off of the pedals. Listen to how the piece sounds with no pedal. Then add the petal back where you totally need it. But just a tad, not to much. Listen to the harmonies changing. Listen to the dynamics. LIsten to your touch.  Experiment with them. Slow your tempo down to about 85 pct of what you can normally do and start paying more attention to the dynamics and phrasing. Learn to practice with dynamics and phrasing as part of your thought process and don't worry about missing some notes when your attention is elsewhere. Then start bringing your tempo back up but now with dynamics and phrasing as part of the piece. It takes work and it takes experimenting, but it is something I know you can do .

Best of luck, Kelly
Current recital pieces
Chopin Fantasy Impromptu
Prokofiev Tocatta in D minor op 11
Schubert Wanderer Fantasy
Chopin Ballade in G Minor
Mendelssohn 2nd piano concerto

Offline starstruck5

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #19 on: October 19, 2011, 09:09:42 PM »
In his autobigraphy Anton Rubinstein admitted that when he was young, he played this etude a lot like you did - fast but with little attention to dynamics - not sure how he pedalled it though -but he found a good teacher and the rest is history.

I don't think it is a good idea either to have an acoustic guitar so close to the piano when you record - I am sure it is resonating with the piano and adding unpleasant harmonics.
When a search is in progress, something will be found.

Offline scott13

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Re: Chopin - Revolutionary Etude Op10 No12
«Reply #20 on: October 20, 2011, 05:24:59 AM »
In this case, it's also about doing very big movements that doesn't make any sense.

What i meant was music is not just a series of notes to be played after each other. Learning the notes of a piece is the 1st step. Then you make music after that. Things such as phrasing, articulation, dynamics, pedal, etc all of these things make those series of notes into music.