Music Theory (Meters, Measures, Subdivisions, etc.)

[timnoble]

Hello,

Please forgive me if I am posting this in the wrong forum.  I am currently taking a music class where we are examining the structure of certain musical pieces.  My teacher wants us to listen to a song and determine what the meter, subdivision and forms (A, AB, ABA, etc.) are.  I`m having major difficulties understanding this because when I listen to a piece I get a different answer than my teacher.  For example, according to my teacher, Beethoven`s Symphony No.2 Movement 3 Scherzo:Allegro is a duple metre with three subdivisions and the form ABA (which is further broken down into A-ABAB & B-ABAB & A-ABAB which I also don`t understand).  I would have said the meter is quadruple.  I don`t know what instrument I`m supposed to listen to to get this information.  I also don`t understand how he breaks down the pieces (ex. ABA into A-ABAB, etc.)

Two other pieces that he mentioned that I`m also having troubles with are Bach`s Gavotte (duple meter with 4 subdivisions) and Schumann`s Von Fremden Landern und Menschen.

He also discussed measures (which I thought were meters but according to some websites this is not the case) and pulses (which I believe are beats).

I really appreciate any help I can get and I thank you for taking the time to look at this.

Tim Noble

[Bob]

Hmm... Sounds like you might need to get the definitions down for some basic things.

Beat, pulse... same thing.  Just tap your foot with the music.  That's the beat.

Quadruple isn't so far off from duple.  Not a big deal really.

If you're tapping the beat, listen for how that beat is divided -- 2s or 3s?  In this case, you can count '1 + a, 2 + a' so it's divided into threes.  That's compound time.

So you could say it's in compound duple time. 

Meter is the grouping of beats.  Grouped in groups of two beats here.  (or you could hear four still I think too if you want to.)  Usually you can group things into 2, 3, or 4 groupings of beats -- duple, triple, quadruple meters.  Then those are divided simple (in half) or compound (in threes).

A measure is from one barline to the next barline. (Sounds like a joke.)

There's no specific instrument to listen for for that.  It's just the rhythm. 

To get the overall form, listen for phrases and sections.  It's Beethoven, so he's not going to be too crazy. 

I'm not going to listen through it again, but if your prof said this...
ABA (which is further broken down into A-ABAB & B-ABAB & A-ABAB
Maybe the overall form is just ABA.
The first section is A-A(repeated?)BAB
Then the B section in more detail, B-ABAB...  Yes, that is confusing.  Either the B section is repeated or the ABAB part is the same

AAAA
B
AAdifferent....but similar... It's trickier without the score, easier to mark stuff up that, but doing this by ear is good too.  It's a very sectional piece.  Good for analysis. 

Looks like a couple pdfs of the score are here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._2_(Beethoven)


I'd have to listen through it more of mark up a score more to narrow in on the form.

[timnoble]

Thank you very kindly for your reply.  This helps out immensely!