VIDEO Bach, allemande from Partita in C minor

[costicina]

Another piece (badly?) performed by  my 12 yrs daughter. It's not her first Bach, a  composer she enjoys very much,   but that is far from easy to perform well/decently.... Any constructive or (why not) destructive criticism will be most welcomed!!!!
Thanks a lot in advance
Margherita

[ramseytheii]

Lady Gaga once said that when you learn how to think about art, you don't need a teacher.  Here is food for your thought: the secret to Bach is not that not all the notes are equally important.  Grasp that, and you have begun the true study of the greatest composer of all times.

Walter Ramsey

[costicina]

Thank you for your reply, Mr. Ramsey.
Of course your area right.... She will keep in mind your very useful advice, trying to analize the structure of the piece, isolating the single voices in her practie sessions, etc., as Bach and counterpoint music usually require.
Best regards
Margherita

[nyiregyhazi]

Lady Gaga once said that when you learn how to think about art, you don't need a teacher.  Here is food for your thought: the secret to Bach is not that not all the notes are equally important.  Grasp that, and you have begun the true study of the greatest composer of all times.

Walter Ramsey

While this is very true, looking at the film, I'm not sure it's the right advice for her at this time. The movement is rather inconsistent. Some fingers control the notes well, whereas elsewhere she is having to press rather hard to get sound out. There's a quality of movement that needs to be learned where every note sounds rather confidently and equally. There's no music other than Bach where it's truer to say that this quality must exist on EVERY note, before you can start to exaggerate shapes. I'm not talking about punching notes out emptily (which is something else altogether), but acquiring the basic quality of confidence and depth. I'm not advising a line-free series of lumps but rather a consistent quality of tone.

Not that I wish to sound damning, but I think there are major physical issues that need to be resolved before she is ready to attempt significant shaping. Striving for major distinctions before that happens would only lead to discomfort. First she needs to find the "clipped" and partially-sounding notes and turn them into comfortably controlled sounds within a strong but continuous line. First you need to feel that every single note is equally important (with regard to control) and settle behind it. Then you can start to make exaggerations.

[costicina]

Thank you very much, nyiregyhazy, for your thoughtful reply!

You got the point: one of the many problems my daughter is struggling with is to keep touch under control, how  to press the keys in order to  get the right sound, especially in the p and pp sections.
She started barely three years ago her piano lessons, and has still so much to learn….
Sure your advice will be helpfu for her improvement, and I thank you heartily again.
Margherita 

[nyiregyhazi]

Thank you very much, nyiregyhazy, for your thoughtful reply!

You got the point: one of the many problems my daughter is struggling with is to keep touch under control, how  to press the keys in order to  get the right sound, especially in the p and pp sections.
She started barely three years ago her piano lessons, and has still so much to learn….
Sure your advice will be helpfu for her improvement, and I thank you heartily again.
Margherita  

One thing I might recommend would be taking short passages and "tapping" the surface of every key before striking, while remaining on the preceding note (unless doing so requires an uncomfortable stretch). This exercise would be done ultra-slow, and outside of any rhythmic context. This does two useful things. Firstly, the more obvious one is that it prepares the position for the next finger. That would help to eradicate some of the emergency movements where she manages to get there in time, but only by adopting an uncomfortable position. Secondly, it also tests the balance of the supporting finger. It's very important that the wrist hangs loosely back in easy alignment while doing this- without being held forwards and up.

Hopefully this would improve the sense of being totally at ease in the keys and remove any small holes. I wouldn't advise doing long stretches though. I'd take no more than four bars maximum, and return to regular playing straight afterwards, to compare the sensations. Also, my most recent blog post refers to a quality of movement that would help with practising this way. Basically, you need to think of trying to push the fingers AWAY from the keys- not towards them. It's the easiest way to get stability while avoiding excess effort and while retaining a loose arm.

[costicina]

Such a helpful suggestion, indeed!!!!
Your blog (I discovered just now it's existence)  seems very promising, and I'm sure it'll be  a precious resource….
We’ll take care to undertstand well your advices and try to put them in practice.

Thank you so much for your generous help  
Margherita

[starstruck5]

Lady Gaga once said that when you learn how to think about art, you don't need a teacher.  Here is food for your thought: the secret to Bach is not that not all the notes are equally important.  Grasp that, and you have begun the true study of the greatest composer of all times.

Walter Ramsey

I agree with Lady Gaga - but why is J S Bach the greatest composer of all time?   How do you begin to justify such a statement?

As for the performance, Bach is very demanding intellectually and some would still argue to this day that his music should never be played on a piano. Putting that aside, I think your daughters' performance is admirable for one so young. There was nothing ugly in her playing at all - despite some lack of empathy with the language of Bach - that need to appreciate voice independance.  I used to have a dog who would attack me if I played Bach - yet I could play Couperin or Handel or any other Baroque composer with impunity - don't ask me why this dog hated Bach so much -

[costicina]

Thank you for your encouragement!
Our cat Felipe is very tolerant whenever Costanza plays Bach, and even mildly interested... The composer he seems to hate is Chopin, I really don't understand why...Mysteries of the feline's pshyche!
Cheers
Margherita

[kellyc]

Hi: 12 years old and Bach is not easy. Bach if far far removed from our modern culture. Every composer is a prisoner of there own time and society. Bach composed for instruments that where not and I repeat not the piano, certainly not our modern instruments. The instruments he composed on where so much easier to keep the voice lines separate. You let go of a note it stopped. Yet we have different tools to help keep those voices separate. Dynamics carefully applied can be the success with Bach on the piano. Just a little volume increase or decrease can draw attention to a new voice making an entrance. Which is a lot of words to say that if you apply  your dynamics with more care it will help a great deal in playing of Bach. You can try it with something easy such as the two part inventions and see how it effects the entrance of each voice.

Bottom line is She plays Bach better than I did when I was 12. I didn't have the temperament for it. Keep up posting, learning, improving, and adding to our musical enjoyment.

Kelly

[costicina]

Thank you, Kelly for your kind words:  since we listened to your your stunning Chopin and Schubert, your encouragement is specially welcomed!
As for Bach, when I was young I had an overdose of this composer (many 2 and 3 voices Inventions, French suites, English suites… ): my teachers did their best to made me HATE him (and Mozart). So I’m afraid I’m the one to blame for all the flaws in my daughter’s approach to Bach’s music. It’s a pity, beacuse,  with  my surprise,  she really likes him!
WTC I prelude & fugue n 10 is the piece Costanza is longing to learn  next. We’ll give it a try (and let’s hope for the best!).
We are sincerely grateful for the patience and the generous help you and many other forumeers are giving us: thank you again and again
Margherita

[emill]

dear Margherita,

Do not be so hard on yourself, you must be doing something right if your daughter
loves Bach whom you hate together with Mozart!   I think your frame of mind should
be more positive rather than hesitant -

"WTC I prelude & fugue n 10 is the piece Costanza is longing to learn  next. We’ll give it a try (and let’s hope for the best!)"

 
or outright discouraging -

"Another piece (badly?) performed by  my 12 yrs daughter."

 

I know it is difficult as I am "Mr. Pessimist" himself who had nothing better to do but to
look for "mistakes" in my son's playing which tended to transmit a negative aura into him. 
Thank God! I was able to shake off a lot of it and for most part stay or have a neutral
attitude to the pieces he learns to play. It may be possible that you have set a standard
inappropriately high for her age and level of exposure or that you are a "perfectionist" by
nature subconsciously insisting that your daughter must not make the same mistakes you
made when learning Bach.

But again, do not be too hard on yourself as a teacher ... try to loosen up a bit and
be neutral ... things will become better in a step by step fashion.... I am sure of it. 

[costicina]

Thank you so much, Emill, for your affectionate rebuke!  I know I deserve it  …there is no need to put such a stress on my poor daughter, threatening to spoil whatever pleasure  piano playing may  give her. I’ll try to follow your wise advice, it’ll sure help our mother/daughter relationship, the thing I care about the most...

I admire sincerely the way you are managing to support, encourage, prod Enzo in his career. He is very talented (I’m a big fan of him!!!), and surely having such a wonderful father has  helped him a lot in the impervious path he has chosen.
I wish the best for you, with all my heart!!!!
Margherita