Can you get a quality upright for under 5k?

[coffee_guy]

New.

if so what brand and model might suit my needs?

I am mostly into R&B, rock, jazz, and classical. Probably in that order.

[werq34ac]

5k would get you a crappy grand, which is better than a quality upright. Quality uprights start at around 2k I would say

[glastofari]

Hello, for 5k you can get the best of uprights. Just know your stuff a bit so you don't get stung! This is highly reccommended reading for this:

https://www.usedpianobuyersguide.com/

Good luck!

[dedilya]

for 5K you can get decent mid size used grand if you buy it from home, not from a dealer. That could be Kawai, Yamaha, Boston. Have somebody to inspect the piano before you buy.

[keys60]

Sigh......crappy grands can be really crappy and are not better than a quality upright. I'd take a good name American or European upright long before I'd take some of the junk that came out of Korea. Although the Koreans really stepped up their game, there's still some real junk out there.
You can however score a G series Yamaha grand in the 5 grand range that might have 15 - 20 years on it.

[werq34ac]

Okay fine, there are some pretty crappy grands, but 5k grands are probably better than 5k uprights.


As for Yamahas, I HATE YAMAHA. Their uprights aren't bad for uprights, but their grands are WAY TOO FRICKIN BRIGHT

[sunshine_keys]

off topic, but when I first saw this I thought it said "could I qualify for a 5k?" (as in marathon) 

[indianajo]

I've seen some consoles around here go for $200. I'm talking 44' "studio" models from 1955, not feeble slow 33" spinets.  Case damage is always good, my 1941 Steinway has lead car wheel tracks all over the kick board and a big piece of veneer missing. Doesn't affect the sound, just the price, and drives the instant-on resellers away.    
Brands to go check out,  39" to 44" tall, Sohmer, Steinway, Baldwin, Wurlitzer, Everett, Mason & Hamlin, Chickering. Most of these brands have been purchased and pasted on modern import junk, so limit these brands to 1977 and earlier models. Brands that are junk, Kimble, Winter.  
Frankly, for home use I prefer a console.  Baby grands have shorter bass strings and project up, not at the player. Check hammer wear, both felt dent and shaft wiggle. Check for mold, mouse chew spots, broken soundboard, uneven damper action. check the hammers move, and speed of repetition is good. Most of all check the sound, but don't be annoyed by tuning problems, if you want a bargain.  Find a key that has the 2 or three strings in tune.  Listen to the split between 2 and 3 string notes- my Mother's 1947 Everett did this badly but they had this corrected by the 1982 model I auditioned.  
If you like honky tonk or ragtime, actual pre-depression upright pianos are a lot of fun. They have a different tone, one that is missing from any modern piano.  This tone is reproduced in some electric keyboards, but any electric lacks the singing with itself of a stringed piano with the dampers up.  Uprights run 600 lb up, so take a competent dolly with 4" wheels (New Haven or Mcmaster.com) and three hefty friends.  Uprights are so hard to move, they are usually free or $50.  There were too many competent upright brands to list, just go take a listen.  Some of this era were also junk, like my Grandmother's.  

[silverwoodpianos]

If your budget is 5K for a new piano I would look for a higher end upright. To purchase a grand piano for this amount you are at the bottom of the grand market even for used ones unless of course you bump into one at an estate sale being given away.

[coffee_guy]

thanks for all these great responces.

[keys60]

Charles R. Walter. American made, good quality, longer bass strings for a 44" piano. Good tone, nice action. Strong cabinet. Delignit pinblock. Not the best but high quality.
Not under 5K but 5 to 6ish. Highly recommend in todays market, but you can find good preowned if that doesn't bother you.

[dedilya]

Very good advise!

[mcrosbie]

Is the term "upright grand" a misnomer?  I was lead to believe that my Mason & Risch (Toronto, Ontario, Canada) piano with brass sounding board was classified as an upright grand piano.  Perhaps they called it that to distinguish it from a studio upright piano.  I do know that it has wonderful tone and was considered an excellent instrument.  Reading up on it, I learned that my piano was built (1903) when Mason & Risch were producing high quality instruments.  I read that later, there was a time period when the quality was not as good. 

I do know that when I sold it for $500 a few years ago, the piano teacher who bought it from me wrote a cheque on the spot and paid to have it moved 40 miles to her home.  She was very pleased with the instrument and I was pleased that a piano teacher bought it, though I was sad to part with it.  It was just to heavy to keep moving from place to place.  I since bought a Yamaha P95 digital piano, because I too live in an apartment on the second floor.

[silverwoodpianos]

You had a Mason & Risch with a brass sounding board? It must have had pretty hard tone…..how about the metal plate was iron with gold paint, decals and strings….then under that part was the wooden sounding board….maybe a little better that way….

 Canada produced many of the best quality pianos built in the world from 1880-1935. Mason & Risch was one of them.

Studio upright pianos did not become popular in North America until 1938 or maybe a bit later……by this time all but a few of the tall piano makers had closed for economic reasons; it was the end of an era……

An era of unlimited first growth timber products, immense pride in workmanship, quality products produced.

The full size (54” and higher) older Canadian uprights had a long string scale; the speaking length (the part that beats air and gives the sound) of the scale was the same length as a 5’6” baby grand.

So the term “upright grand” or “grand piano in upright form” as per Heintzman’s claim. I suppose “upright grand” could also refer to “upright large” or “upright big.”

More sales speak than anything else; kind of like “convertible hardtop” for automobiles.

[pianoplayjl]

If you're lucky, you might.

[willvenables]

I think a quality upright of around 125cm+ in height will suit you. The make and model you choose is the right choice, as only you will know what feels and sounds right.

Baby grand vs big upright is a common argument and no-one's wrong in their opinion, but it is subjective. Really, they both have their merits and they are often compared as they are roughly the same money.

A big upright usually has strong bass, full tenor and wide dynamic range, but the upper tenor / treble is a but short in sustain and sounds quite percussive. The left pedal is usually 'half blow' to bring the hammer rest rail 50% to the strings, introducing 2-3mm lost motion in the initial key depression. This reduces hammer momentum - but has little actual sound effect - but also lightens the touch making it easier to play more softly. You have to play the keys more delicately to get an overall result, but the actual responsiveness of the piano's action is compromised. The upright action does not permit partial key return repetition - so you have to fully return each key to repeat it, otherwise the jack can't get back under the hammer butt and it locks up. The hammer is travelling horizontally towards the string and has a tendency to be more forgiving as the hammer can fall to the string even when you have played too lightly. Big upright tone is more suited to bold music: concertos, boogie woogie, pop, bass-heavy jazz, blues, rock.

A baby grand has a shallow bass and low tenor, but the mid tenor is lyrical, upper tenor / treble should be rounded and have a singing quality, clean and melodic. The left pedal should be 'una-corda' and shifts the keyboard/action/hammers to the right so the hammers glance or omit the 1st string of the trichord. The touch is not compromised and the tone changes significantly. This is better than an upright's half blow pedal. The roller action has a clever repetition lever to suspend the hammer when you lift slightly off the key so the jack can get under the jack to repeat - without needing to fully return the key to repeat. Much faster and easier repetition. Baby grands usually have longer keys too, so you get more leverage for a more controlled touch. he hammer is travelling vertically, so it won't fall towards the string when you haven't played the key hard enough... owing to gravity. It is less forgiving. These are all great features to further your technique. Tonally, a baby grand is more appealing to romantic classical, light jazz...

[williampiano]

I remember when I got my upright piano, I got it for 3K. It's a Pearl River and I would say it is a very 'quality' piano. I know, I know. Pearl Rivers have a somewhat negative reputation, but the one I bought is quite good! So, to completely answer your question, yes you can get a quality upright for under 5K. There are many commendable brands that sell the uprights for very affordable prices. Also, I see some people discussing whether should just get a crappy grand for 5K instead. I don't necessarily agree. Honestly, just get the piano that you like the best, whether its an upright or a crappy grand. As long as the piano suits you and it is in your price range, that is all that matters.

[pianoplayjl]

Mine was around 6K and second hand, Yamaha. It doesn't matter what brand it is because IMO there are good pianos in bad brands and bad pianos in great brands.

[johnlewisgrant]

At that price range (5000) there's actually quite a bit of competition.  You DON'T need to go used, at least, not REALLY used, meaning really OLD.  Yes there are some fantastic rebuilt old uprights in that price range, but also a lot of hyped crap.  Steinway, for example, actually made some uprights with stunningly beautiful tone; but try to find one in decent shape... next to impossible... most of them sound outrageously bad.  Ditto with Heinztman (Canada) uprights (and Grands): some gorgeous instruments, but a lot of crap too, and it's so easy to get sucked in.

The BEST by far upright in the "newish" category that I've ever played was, in fact, made in CHINA!!!  Most Chinese uprights are crap.  Most Japanese and Korean uprights are "OK", but not wonderful, like a good German, Canadian, or even American upright can be.  But this Chinese piano--I'm almost ashamed to admit it--is quite a bit better than the best Japanese out there, and in fact comparable to the best German uprights:

HAILUN is the name... not your average Chinese piano company, in fact, not your average piano company of any kind.  Just plain stunning quality for the price.  Nothing comes close, unless you want German or American (meaning REALLY German or American) at multiple times the price.

JG