Playing anything without mistakes - finishing pieces off

[farm boy]

I do agree that we shouldn't beat ourselves up about mistakes - but we have to have a clear and definite attitude towards fixing them up and becoming secure on our pieces, surely?.
"The Inner Game" - I recently read this book and I would NOT recommend it to anyone.  It reminds me of Monty Python telling the viewing children of a TV show that "last week we learned how to build box girder bridges, but this week we are going to learn to play the flute - ok, you pick the flute up, blew in one end whilst moving your fingers up and down over the holes along the flute.  That's all there is to it.  Next week we will learn how to do open heart surgery".  I found this book very much like that - "oh, you have a problem in that area.....well I had that problem and I did this and it was fixed overnight."   It also says that you must give yourself permission to make mistakes and likened this to playing the special round of golf where you are allowed 2 tee shots, the message being that, in fronting up to tee off, knowing you could fluff the first shot (as you had another), most golfers ended up hitting their first shot well as they were not under the same pressure.  In playing a piano solo you have ONE shot at it - you can't give yourself a second chance - "who cares if I fluff this up, I will get a second chance when I repeat this section" - oh yeah?    SURE!!!!   

[nyiregyhazi]

 I found this book very much like that - "oh, you have a problem in that area.....well I had that problem and I did this and it was fixed overnight."  

Absolutely. This stood out to me too. I couldn't help but grimace when I saw the bit where he asked someone to imagine an autumn afternoon and then play it again. Sure- imagery can sometimes help. But such a simplistic explanation left me stunned (and frankly embarrassed).


It also says that you must give yourself permission to make mistakes and likened this to playing the special round of golf where you are allowed 2 tee shots, the message being that, in fronting up to tee off, knowing you could fluff the first shot (as you had another), most golfers ended up hitting their first shot well as they were not under the same pressure. In playing a piano solo you have ONE shot at it - you can't give yourself a second chance - "who cares if I fluff this up, I will get a second chance when I repeat this section" - oh yeah?    SURE!!!!    

In fairness, I think his point was that, with the right attitude, you don't end up needing that second chance after all. However, this stuck out for me too. In many cases, golfers would end up taking the most ludicrous swipe at the ball- and needing that mulligan on every hole! This is the sort of stuff that it would be interesting to see experimental analysis of- in order to see what percentage do better and what percentage do worse. I bet a great many would do very substantially worse!!! In music, there's no shortage of pianists who attempt hard pieces but are sadly oblivious to how poorly they are doing the equivalent of slicing every shot into the trees. To care about this is exactly what they need to progress.

The thing that stuck out for me is that author fails to clarify adequately that much of this can only work when much basic ability is there already. I wouldn't say he tries to hide this altogether but he doesn't devote anywhere near enough explanation to it. He doesn't make enough distinction about the difference between unlocking the present level of potential and the nature of having to learn things in order to create that present level of potential. However, I must say that I do like a great many things about the book very much indeed. I just fear that it goes too far against the conventional approaches. Those who haven't been brought up in the conventional approaches thoroughly enough may find that not caring makes them do far worse, not better.

[caioramos]

My teacher said these days while we went on a concert that perfection is what makes a piece sound imperfect, she was telling this toward the Asians mostly because they have a culture of making everything they do as perfect and precise as possible with no mistakes. But since we are humans, most of them sound like machines, there are very little who still sound with a soul, who incorporated the sensibility of the western culture, like Yuja Wang. But the "mistake" is part of music, of course keep in mind this is very subtle, she was not enforcing sloppiness in no way. But still, my teacher said this is not a critic in itself, is just a matter of taste, as she as well enjoy hearing the Asians play.

[tony20172]

NO NO NEVER GIVE UP// I am the same age and also find it hard to remember everything and I study about two hours a day you just have to keep going and dont foget it is theroputic ?for your brain and fingers tony

[kellyc]

I was once told by a very good pianist that if your pieces are note perfect every time you play them , your concentrating to much on your technique and not enough on your art. Great artistic interpretations  will occasionally even in the finest pianist produce mistakes in there technique.  I firmly believe this and its one of the reasons so many great Concert pianists very finest performances will have a few wrong notes. Plus the recordings we hear of them are not representative of there efforts at a live performance. By the time the recording engineers are done it sounds like God came down and played the piece.

As far as the earlier comment about Asian Pianists, I'm Asian and I don't like the stereotype . It seems to me that our modern Competitions are so technique oriented that any one with an inspired artistic interpretation that doesn't fit what the Judges deem a traditional interpretation have no chance at a medal. Asians are just like everyone else . They just want to win also.

Thanks, Kelly

[1piano4joe]

Mistakes come in many, many different shapes and sizes.  It's not just hitting a wrong note, adding one where there shouldn't be, omitting one here or there. Missing an accent? Or not legato? Maybe the staccato is too pointed? Is using an unintended fingering a mistake? Timing a crescendo such as the end of Nocturne in Eb with the right accelerando and ritardando where it sounds right could be yet another kinds of mistake. So what to do?

Sorry, but I don't have any ideas on this subject to correct these problems.

I make mistakes. Lots and lots of them. All the time. Often wondering to myself what's up with that?

After considerable research I found the following:

1) I am not a robot

2) I am not a machine

3) Many musicians are perfectionists. Have you ever heard this most ridiculous statement, "Amateurs practice till they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong"?

4) I was absolutely shocked by an article that said, "Making 5% mistakes in a performance should be the maximum permissible number".

5) This struck me as an unbelievably high percentage.  Apparently, I too am a suffering perfectionist.

6) How can practice possibly help in a piece you have played literally thousands of time and never make the same mistake twice and sometimes none at all?

7) Do golfers hit a hole in one every time? Or just every other time? Yeah right. Maybe once in a lifetime if your lucky is more like it?

How many of you have ever bowled a perfect game. A 300 requiring twelve strikes in a row. This is a performance of the highest order and while most pro's have achieved this many times in their career, it just is plain unrealistic to expect this every game you bowl. In fact a perfect game occurs much less than 1% of the time for the pro's.

9) The problem is very often that as a solo instrument your mistakes can be rather glaring. Much like a professional bowler missing an easy spare or throwing a gutter ball or fouling. Yes, they do this and it's shocking to watch because they're pros (our idols) and we expect perfection in them as well.
   
10) I laugh out loud at myself now when I make a mistake and just keep playing. Why? Because that's what the real pro's do. Knowledge, Concentration and Attitude are what separates the pro's from the amateurs not mistakes.

[farm boy]

Ipiano4Joe - great response and very hard to disagree with anything you say. 

Again, it gets down to why I started this post - to me performance MISTAKES are basically hitting wrong notes, or if you want to extend it a little, anything that happens when you are performing that can STOP you dead - meaning you have to go back half a bar or more to pick up again. 

I would say that wrong crescendos, staccato touch and the other stuff you have mentioned may not fall into this category.  So it comes down to why do we may make these STOP type mistakes (perhaps unexpectedly, or at places we have never made a mistake before)?  (or in your example, why does the pro bowler suddenly and unexpectedly err massively when playing comp. (ie performing))

Having read every single reply to this post, for me I think it comes down to a couple of reasons:

1.     Knowing the piece well, through much practice (and doing whatever type of drills you use and need to nail it), so you can minimise nerves (not a lot to be nervous about as you know your stuff)

2      Whilst performing, thinking only about the music and your playing, interpretation, etc and NEVER stuff like (as I have said previously) "oh, I think I am doing well here" or " I think everyone will think I can play well".

Jim

[collectivecolors]

I would like to say, even though I'm not a very experienced pianist and have only experience in playing "rinky-dink" pieces, sometimes when I try very hard to focus on the sound, and expression of a piece to make it sound like an art it also in turn helps me to get each note correct and the more I keep this in mind the more it helps me.

[farm boy]

That is an excellent point collectivecolours.  It is worth really trying this thoroughly.  Thanks

[pytheamateur]

I also have a teacher by the way and he spends most of his time telling me to get rid of tension, relax and dont get totally depressed about making mistakes - "get over it".  Unlike him though I am pretty anal and very concerned about playing correctly and "all the notes".  Nevertheless I believe he is improving my technique.
know how to get faster.  My rh is much better than my lh and where I struggle are arpeggiated lh runs (playing fast).   

Thanks for sharing your experience.  I have the same problem too.  Like you, I recently returned to the piano, but I'm only 30.  I wanted to be able to perfect pieces so that I can record and post them on Youtube to share with my friends.  Unfortunately, this is all a distant dream at the moment.

[nyiregyhazi]

Andrew
Margaret Wacyk's blog site
https://margaretwacyk.blogspot.com/
is quite amazing - I have become a follower as well as ordering her book "Ultimate Piano Playing".  Thanks for recommendation.

Just coming back to this, I've just published a post which specifically illustrates why I completely disagree with this type of explanation:

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I've included an exercise in this, that illustrates the potential dangers of thinking about firm fingers that only transfer energy from the upper body. To be honest, I found it most alarming that she spoke of a "stiff wrist" as a good thing, during key depression. There are more alternatives than merely "floppy" or "stiff".

There's a hole in my bucket