New hammers and strings: Is it worth it?

[gvans]

I own a 1925 Steinway M (5'6") and live one mile from the Pacific Ocean. The strings and hammers are, as far as I can tell, the originals. The strings have some rust, and the hammers are pretty hard. The piano plays p, pp, ppp beautifully, but gets harsh very easily at forte. The bass notes are dull. The action and sound board are pristine. I have installed a thermostat/dehumidifier and the instrument keeps its tune well.

In my studio I am lucky to now have a 1985 5'10" Schimmel, with a rich bass, ringing treble, and fine overall tone. Since I've got the Schimmel, I'm thinking about upgrading the living room Steinway with new hammers and strings for informal concerts. My question to you experts out there: Is it worth the cost and hassle? And what should the cost be, roughly? Thanks in advance for your help. 

[silverwoodpianos]

 My question to you experts out there: Is it worth the cost and hassle? And what should the cost be, roughly? Thanks in advance for your help. 

No one here can see what you have  along with the inability to see what condition the instrument is in.
Have the instrument inspected by a local technician that does restorative work. This person would be able to inform you as to the viability of the work and the current local pricing.

[john90]

I know far less about this not being a tech. But would imagine the Schimmel has similar hammers and strings to the Hamburg Steinways. The M is probably an NY model? In which case the hammers will be hardened up with cellulose, rather than needelled down, and perhaps easier to soften? The M is going to be brighter than a German model. It plays p, pp, ppp nicely, which is almost impossible to do on a worn out piano needing refurb.

Personally I would slide out the action and polish the strings with a rubbing block from under and above, to stop rust getting on the hammer surfaces, before any work is done on the hammers. I wouldn't write off the hammers if they have a lot of felt left. I really like the look of the original tuning pins on a Hamburg Steinway, the dull nickel like finish, rather than a modern chromed look of replacements which can make them look over restored.

I wonder if it is possible to keep the old pins when changing strings?

The Schimmel is larger, and a very nice instrument that will just be different to the M. You don't want to end up with two pianos that are the same...

[gvans]

Thanks for the notes.

My technician's coming in three days; I thought I'd mine the Forum for some data ahead of time. I've never put new strings in a piano, only in guitars, where the effect is quite astonishing (although tuning is initially difficult). I'm assuming most people don't change their piano strings often, if ever, since we're talking, I'm guessing, some thousands of dollars. Yet techs sometimes recommend unstringing the bass strings, giving them a twist, and re-stringing them to add resonance to the bass (dull in my instrument). As for the hammers, I don't know; they've got plenty of felt, they've been needled several times--I just wonder how long one waits to change them (the instrument is 86 years old, after all) and what new ones would do, if anything. Obviously, this is a tough thing to describe over the internet, and, since I'm after subtle improvements, might not be an easy call even with the piano in front of you.

I value the difference between the Steinway and the Schimmel, I just wonder if that harsh forte and dull bass might somehow be cured...
Anyhow, thanks again.

[silverwoodpianos]

After fifty years or so, most of the wire will begin to lose elasticity from being under tremendous tension for so long. The wire then goes into a plastic state; once the molecules begin to deform the wire will start to fracture.

With wound bass strings at times they can be removed and slapped on a table to remove the dirt and grime, or twisted to tighten up the coils but with strings of that age I would not expect much.

New strings will clean up the sound for sure.

Restringing is more than just replacing the wire in a piano; there are a minimum of three tunings to zero tension and then seven tunings on the new wire back up to stability.

Also there is the inspection and/or repair of the bridgework and its set pins, along with any repairs or recapping of the sounding board finish. There is all of the under felt to be replaced too. And a new set of tuning pins.

It is never a good idea to post prices on the internet because the value of this kind of work varies greatly from area to area and from one restorer to another. But with all of the aforementioned work completed I expect you would be relieved of at least 5K minimum.

[gvans]

Thanks, Dan, for your involved answer. That's a ton of information I did not know. Let's say you're in the ballpark price-wise. I bought the instrument for 10K in 1982. I've seen refurbished M's of a similar vintage going for somewhere in the mid-20's. 5K might well be worth it, not only regarding the sound, but regarding the investment. Not that I plan to re-sell, but the thought of trading up to a seven-footer some day has, on rare occasions, crossed my mind...Unfortunately, we live atop a steep driveway followed by a flight of stairs, and the piano move is more than a little daunting. The easiest thing would be to restring (hammers, too?) and keep the old girl.

[silverwoodpianos]

Usually string and hammers are done at the same time. When I complete a string job here I include the cost of damper replacement felts too.

As long as the work in completed properly it will add a certain amount of value to the piece. The value upon trade-in may be different from that value depending upon how long it has been since the work was completed.

[keys60]

An M is a piano to be proud of. Depending on how far you are willing to go and the current state of the rest of the piano, ie. the action, its well worth the upkeep. Even restoration on an M IMHO is worth it. I've removed and cleaned with a 3M scotchbrite pad and gave the bass strings a twist on my Baldwin upright. It helps. Maybe a 30% improvement of where they were at, but then replaced the strings. No comparison. They sound great. It didn't cost me much because that was part of my apprenticeship in piano technology so it was worth it. Otherwise it wouldn't have been a wise financial decision as that piano will not bring much in return like a Steinway grand will.

Costs do vary on string jobs. There are good piano restorers here in NY that will string and repin in the mid 2K range, but like Mr. Silverwood mentioned, new dampers, hammers and shanks are well worth it so, yea, about 5K in this neck of the woods for all that and a full regulation.

I can't spend your money but if it were mine and I had the funds, I'd do it.

[gvans]

Thanks for your input. My tech came and tuned her up. He thought the bottom six bass strings did sound "a little tubby" and thought the easiest way to go would be to give them a twist, replace any that break, and see. The hammers still have plenty of decent felt. He said he'd be happy to do the big job, felt USD 3750 would cover the strings, plus some more for a rebuild of the action and the hammers. So 5000 is pretty accurate (I live in Southern California). But he'd have to take her to his shop, and every time I move a piano up and down our stairs and driveway, my heart shakes. The movers, after an initial balk, always demand an extra cash grease.

We've got a concert here tonight (violin/piano, playing, among other things, the Brahms D minor): We'll see how she feels and sounds.

As an aside, my tech told me he got a chance to inspect V. Horowitz's "D" after he died: VH had his hammer shanks trimmed down to lighten them; he also did something to make each note sound at a very shallow key stroke. I heard him play that piano in 1979 (he took it to every concert); he played a lot of short, emotive pieces (Chopin Nocturnes, etc), nothing with too much bravura, just beautiful tone and legato. Easy pieces played masterfully. The best concert I've ever attended.

[keys60]

Bass strings can be replaced in the home. Best he take just the action to his shop for an initial regulation and minor adjustments back at your house. No need to take the whole piano out just for that unless your getting a whole restringing and restoration.

[pianoplayjl]

I think it might be worth it.